Indecision and the affair continues (Part 2)

[Nblost]

Talked to DB coach (Laurie). She thought I should go into counseling and see if we can get H to start talking first. Don't push him into a corner and try not to attack/complain about his behavior. See where he stands when he doesn't feel threatened. If he is confused or unsure where he stands, see if we can get more counseling sessions or if he should go alone.

I told her I was near the end of my rope and she said I sounded like I was strong and ready to take a next step if needed. I told her I felt like I could let H have another week or two if he is moving in the right direction--but I can't go on like this.

(One of her ideas was to tell the kids he's moving to OW's city for work for a month or two but keep it quiet and not officially separate...I said that would just continue to enable him and he'd probably love that)

I think the last 6 months has given me a chance to get my strength up and I can be ready to move on if I need to.

I will post after our MC session and let you know how it goes. I feel a sense of impending doom...but we'll see.

[MynameisMZ]

Thinking of you NB....<<<<HUGS>>>>

[Nblost]

Quick update since H is still home...day 10!

Went to MC. I don't feel like we made a lot of progress, but H talked first and shared his indecision around what he wants to do. He can't decide. He also explained again why he doesn't want to share anything with me about the A. He feels like if he shares specifics...I'll forever be haunted by them. The counselor and I both tried to tell him that I'm already haunted by the unknown, and I would eventually forgive him and move on. I think the MC made some good points about how he thinks we can improve our marriage and we can overcome this...but, we didn't tackle much in terms of our issues. I think that's okay and hopefully made MC less threatening to H.

H spent the last 25 minutes of our hour alone with the MC. He called me right afterwards and said it wasn't that helpful. He just feels like he has a huge, difficult decision to make and he isn't sure that talking is helping him. We talked for about a half hour and I think I did a good job remaining very quiet and calm.

H said maybe we should separate. He doesn't feel like he can give up his A. He'll be too bitter. (Really...let's bring the three of us together and see who is the most bitter???!) We started talking about separation and I said I'll support that. I also said I can't really help with his decision, but I've tried to help throughout this to support him and be there for him. I also believe in our family and our marriage. That seemed to give H some pause and make him a little sad.

H seemed quiet and more sad than usual at the end of our conversation (granted, over the phone so hard to tell...although sometimes I think we do better over the phone). I felt like it was a small victory that he didn't say anything too defensive or crazy, and he seemed somewhat emotional.

I did point out the challenge he has in comparing his "old" wife of 12 years to a new affair. H still doesn't seem to "get it". He claims that he and the OW have had to deal with reality in their relationship. (I said that was good, but it seems like they'll have more reality at some point when he tells people about the relationship or they meet each other's kids). Excuse me, but how do you have reality when you each have three kids but the kids have NEVER entered into your dating life? H also doesn't know when OW will get divorced. He also said in MC that they haven't talked about a future...although I'm not sure I believe that.

Anyway, we may very well separate...but I feel a sense of calm. I think I feel better knowing he's conflicted and has some sadness. H also is hoping we can still do things as a family and maybe go to counseling once a month while we are separated...I didn't say anything, but I think I'd do counseling but he'd need to have the kids alone to make reality sink in.

H came home just now (had to go back to work after the MC session). We had a family tickle game and H got on top of me and tickled me with the kids. He's now helping to put them to bed. There's some part of him that's trying...I just wish he could see the light before it's too late.

I just really think if you are conflicted....please, give your family a chance?!?

Thanks all for your support.

[MynameisMZ]

Been waiting with abated breath.....You H said MC "it wasn't that helpful," but I would not be too sure of that. Spending 25 minutes alone with counselor must have surely been an eventful one. Let's assume that he told the counselor about the A. It's making a tiny crack in the darkness of secrecy and exposing it to the light.

In any event, the motion ton expose it has started. It will be really interesting to see if this thing can survive the light.

4%....4% of A turn into a long-term R and out of those only 40% last.

I'm curious about his comment that he'll be too bitter. Bitter about what? Do you have an idea?

You are now the ow, but YOU have HIS babies. Like you said, you are a package deal.

[Nblost]

Yeah, we'll see. I do think he's torn, but hard to know where things will end up.

H is leaving today. I am suspicious again on his plans. He needs to go to a fun city for work today and I get the impression that OW could be meeting him there. He won't say when he's coming back and it doesn't really make sense that he'd fly to her city for work for just a Friday. Is it reasonable for me to ask him? Seems like it given the kids, although maybe I should just act like I don't care.

"Bitter"--I think he had a hard time telling me why he wouldn't want to give up the affair, so I'm not sure if "bitter" is exactly his feeling. But, I would guess he'd be angry at me and upset that he'd have to give it up. From everything I've read, I think this is normal and the bitter feeling would go away as he emerged from the fog and worked on the marriage.

I've also given him the option that if he'd be willing to give up the A temporarily...we could work on our marriage for 2-3 months and if things aren't improving...he could go back to the A. He can't seem to be able to do that. (I've read about this approach in a couple books--you hope the A addiction goes away during the 3 month period and enough of the good of the marriage can start to emerge...but, it's risky)

H kept touching me last night (non-sexually) or holding me. I read something about the power of attachment versus attraction and I think he must be feeling some of that attachment.

[kml]

Only you can decide when you've had a long enough time to show him your positive changes, and when it is time to kick him out into the cold harsh reality of his choices.

DBing is NOT about being a doormat - when a man is carrying on an ongoing affair right in front of you, and tells you he's not willing to give it up - it may be time to splash some cold water on his fantasy.

BTW - does this woman's husband know about the affair?

I would suggest you start planning for your future. See an attorney to get an idea of what your financial position would be. Squirrel away some emergency cash, or if you can't, at least stock the pantry with lots of canned goods in case he goes off the deep end and you need to squeak by until a support order is in place. Start going out with friends and building your own social life. Think about what you might do for a living if you were single.

I'm NOT saying it is hopeless or over - quite the opposite, I suspect when he has to face reality he's likely to want to come home. He's just caught up in the intoxicating infatuation phase. And we all wish he would come to his senses before the kids have to hear anything about it. But I think unfortunately this is not going to be that simple, he sounds like a guy who has to be woken up out of fantasyland. (And I have to ask you - was he ALWAYS this monumentally selfish? He would be "bitter" if not allowed to continue his affair? Really????)

So - now is the time to GAL, create the life for YOU that YOU want, take up new things, make new friends. Get your financial ducks in a row just in case. Get a makeover, cut your hair, lose weight if you need to. Create a little mystery - don't date, but it's ok to let him think you MIGHT be going places where you MIGHT meet other men when he's out of town. (Stupid but true, the "feelings" for you often kick back in when they realize they could lose you to another man).

Right now he has all the power as you are waiting for him to choose. It may be time to take that power away.

[Nblost]

Just talked to H, he's on his way to the airport. Sounds like he'll be back on Sunday. (but he wouldn't really tell me and I didn't ask)

He talked to our MC again this morning. Still can't decide which relationship he wants and doesn't feel like talking will help him.

He feels like if he gives up the A, he'll be angry and he thinks he won't be able to deal with me and re-commit to me. I told him that was valid and I don't want him to come back if he doesn't want to. However, I did say I'd read cases where the straying H felt that way, but then changed as counseling started and the A started to fade. I think I did a pretty good job being detached in our conversation, although I told him that I wish we could work on things and didn't have to put our kids through this.

He said again he can't talk to me about the A. I told him that I already believe the worst about his new relationship (they love each other, they talk about getting married, etc) and I've read enough about how wonderful affairs are that I doubt he could hurt me that much more by telling me things. He didn't confirm or deny that my suspicions were right or wrong.

He feels like separation may be the answer. Once again, I said that is okay. It is interesting that when we start talking about it, the logistics seem hard for him.

H again seemed sad when we got off the phone. I feel a mix of true sadness and also a bit of relief.

I think the kids are powerful in this. Maybe I'm being overly dramatic, but I think looking your 4, 8 and 10 year old daughters in the faces and telling them you are leaving is going to be very hard. I'm sure any age is hard...but our girls are at such an idealistic stage. :-(

I do believe this may be what it takes though. So, I'm trying to stay strong.

[Nblost]

Also, KML, I am lucky from the perspective that I have a good job and our largest bank account is only in my name. I feel good financially except for the issue that I know H is spending money on the A.

I'm thin (was average before this and now have lost 20 pounds) and people say I'm attractive and I look young for 43. I am growing my hair longer again (H likes it long but I kept it more shoulder length for work/professional reasons)

I did join match.come a couple months ago just to see who was out there and I have met a couple guys through friends who could be possibilities for dating. I agree though, I don't think I'm ready to date as much as I should start putting myself "out there" in terms of making friends and building a social life that doesn't revolve around married couples and families.

I need to be reminded of that, so thanks for your comments.

[Nblost]

Also also KML, he wasn't ever this selfish before. In fact, I sometimes wonder if the A feels so good to him because he's put work and family first for too long.

And, the OW's husband apparently does know. They are separated so I think she has permission to date and they seem to share their kids. OW's friends also know. My only snarky comment today was that they really seem like a quality group of women. (One of them is FB friends with H and has commented about how cute our family photos are...)

I did also tell my H...this is why affairs are bad. It's an impossible situation and likely everyone ends up getting destroyed.

[Starsky309]

And, the OW's husband apparently does know. They are separated so I think she has permission to date and they seem to share their kids. OW's friends also know.

Don't be at all surprised if you end up finding out that this isn't true at all. Do you know this independently, or did your husband tell you this?


Starsky