I believe detaching and going dark are two very different things.
Yes, it is absolutely essential that you detach. It is quite possible to have contact with her, but be detached emotionally from her choices and actions.
The going dark, if you do it, would be for you -- not as a tool to get her back. For example, you go dark to protect yourself and your emotions because it is too hard for you to have contact with her or because she is constantly crossing your boundaries by her behavior towards you. I had to go dark in my situation simply because I could no longer accept the way she was treating me, it was crossing my boundaries of how I wanted to be treated by my W, of any love interest of mine, or of any person that valued me and cared for me. So, I cut her out of my life.
Originally Posted By: BklynMom
2tp, for what its worth you have done an amazing job doing 180 and GALing but I think the one thing your strategy is lacking is mystery.
I don't know where you are on the dating perspective, but even if you do not want to go there, it often IS a good idea to spend time with the fairer sex -- whether it be in group settings or meeting people out with guy friends, whatever. It does an ego good to get out there and realize that other people do find you interesting or desirable, and it is good practice for flirting. I met and hung out with lots of women in the context of my GAL, but never dated. It boosted my self-confidence, polished my mojo and, I didn't realize it at the time, but my W noticed, she kept talking about this one friend of mine that was a girl that I talked to. When I went off for my college reunion, I think my W was worried I was going to get together with an old flame.
Originally Posted By: BklynMom
Another idea I had for you was to take your sons on a mini vacation, maybe camping. Or an overnight in a nearby city, stay at a hotel which kids love, catch a sporting event.
You totally should do this, regardless of what effect it has on your W. Spend time with the boys and get out and do new and fun things with them!
Me-53 W-49 D22,D18,D15 T-Since-12/2001 Married-9/2004 She Moved Out-5/28/2010 Piecing start-04/2011 Now-together Thread http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2079304
Again, it seems so counter-intuitive, but the more you accept that your marriage with her is over, the faster you (and she) will heal. If she has bits of love left for you, she will only notice them when you aren't there and then come looking for you."
Originally Posted By: 2thepoint
I think this is where a lot of people in our sitch struggle. The thought that the M is truly over is such a crushing realization of defeat that it is almost impossible to accept. Almost impossible....
Yes, it is often the hardest and, I think, the most important part to accept. Accepting it as your reality will guarantee your success -- either without her in a new life or with her in a second M if she tries to stop you from moving on. This is the essence of the LRT -- that your partner thinks you are moving on and no longer waiting for them. Your (old) M is over. Whichever fork you end on from here, you need to revitalize yourself.
Me-53 W-49 D22,D18,D15 T-Since-12/2001 Married-9/2004 She Moved Out-5/28/2010 Piecing start-04/2011 Now-together Thread http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2079304
"Even though I dont think in your sitch you should go dark, you should stop helping out around the house, let her deal with the mess."
Uh, I guess then I should own up to the fact that I saw the trash was full this morning when I stopped by to walk S10 to the bus stop and took out the trash. Or, that I stopped by this afternoon to train S13 how to clean the pool and decided to also take down the Christmas decorations inside the house.
"The stopping helping is true. You definitely do not want to VOLUNTEER to do things for her. That is giving yourself away, plan doormat, etc. How many of your other exes are you calling and suggesting you do things for them? Ease their load so they have more time to relax and think about their current love interest?"
OK, I need to stop this, I know! FWIW - W didn't ask me to do any of this though. The trash needed to be emptied and I was there. And with regard to the decorations, I think it pissed her off that the boys and I had put them up when she was away on her last OM rendezvous. So the least I could do was take them down.
Oddly enough, W actually started to help me with the decorations and we also had a few light moments reminiscing about when/where certain tree ornaments came from. I thanked her for the help and she thanked me as well.
One interesting moment and maybe a 180 was when she said she wanted to throw out some stocking hangers. My first response was "why, their cute and still in good shape?" So she set them down.
A few minutes later I picked them up and walked them over to the trash just as W happened to be walking by so she clearly saw what I was doing. This was not planned. I just stopped and considered whether or not this was something so important that I just had to have my way and decided that the answer was no.
But... I see that I still have a lot of work to do in the way of detaching. And I agree that I am not at all mysterious. Hell, I'm practically an open book. Always have been, even before the bomb. It is so damned hard, but I will do better.
I just want to say that although I do things for my W, it usually isn't because she asks me and I do them with zero expectation that W cares, acknowledges my actions or that it does anything to soften her heart in any way.
Busto - I like your flirty idea. I've got to try tat sometime.
Bklyn - I appreciate the idea about dating but I don't think that is a good idea right now. I'm still looking for work to supplement my sporadic and meager income from my real estate investment business. So I'm not exactly a great catch at the moment, besides I'm still too damned hurt by my sitch to even contemplate going out on the date.
I'll just have to find other ways to detach and become mysterious.
Me51 W53 S17 S14 M22 T25 Bomb-9/11; A-11/11; I move out 11/11
It's easy to find our bottom, it is our top that requires cultivation.
Every rough spot adds to our emotional constitution. -Barney Fife
"You totally should do this, regardless of what effect it has on your W. Spend time with the boys and get out and do new and fun things with them!"
This is in response to both Bklyn and Busto - I actually have been doing things with the boys. For example, last Friday the boys and I went to meet a cousin of mine who I haven't seen in 20 years. She has 2 girls that are near in age to my boys so they got to meet their new cousins. We met half way between our respective cities and made a day of it.
We had lunch, played on some old trains, took pictures, reminisced about old times, family, etc. All the while the boys and girls had a blast playing hide and seek at the playground.
On the drive back, we stopped by a friends house who I haven't seen since July and then we went out to dinner with his family.
On Wednesday S10 and I are going to see a professional basketball game. So I have that to look forward to. Also, my sons have been attending church services with me. Mostly S10, but S13 also joined us on Christmas eve. We also need to start planing for our annual California camping/fishing trip.
Anyway, I feel like I am doing plenty of things with the boys while also looking for things to do on my own or with friends.
Me51 W53 S17 S14 M22 T25 Bomb-9/11; A-11/11; I move out 11/11
It's easy to find our bottom, it is our top that requires cultivation.
Every rough spot adds to our emotional constitution. -Barney Fife
Busto said: Sometimes in these cases it is true that the WAS seems to not have asserted him/herself and let his/her unhappiness be known. Not communicated when THEIR boundaries were being trampled across by the LBS. Other times the WAS feels that they did express their unhappiness or wish for things to be different -- sometimes in many ways. But the LBS didn't listen, or put their own needs first, or argued for the 'logical' way. And the WAS felt more and more invalidated and uncared for. And then shut down.
Take a hard inventory of yourself to see if there were ways you could have listened better or set up a safer, more responsive and validating setting in which she really could tell you how she felt and what she wanted or needed from you. I'm not suggesting you take all the blame -- she could have made different choices, asserted herself more loudly, persistently or forcefully, perhaps -- but be sure you are minding your side of the fence and not pointing to her side of the fence, when there are still things you might be able to fancy up ur side. _______________________________________________________________
Rick here - this is such good advise. I felt the same thing as 2TP, and it took a long while for me to understand/accept my role in the bomb drop.
There's a chapter in How to Fix Your Marriage Without Talking About It called Stepping In the Puddle (or something like that) that does a great job talking about this. It really helped me understand how I didn't listen and engage my w even though I thought I did.
Married 6 together 8 Me:38 W:31 second marriage for both SS12, SD10, S6 Bomb: 9/8/11 (day before our 5 yr ann) W moved out: 2/18/12 D final: 11/12/12 Share S 50/50. Spend as much time as I can with SS & SD
There's a chapter in How to Fix Your Marriage Without Talking About It called Stepping In the Puddle (or something like that) that does a great job talking about this. It really helped me understand how I didn't listen and engage my w even though I thought I did.
Originally Posted By: 2thepoint I think this is where a lot of people in our sitch struggle. The thought that the M is truly over is such a crushing realization of defeat that it is almost impossible to accept. Almost impossible....
Originally Posted By: Bustorama Yes, it is often the hardest and, I think, the most important part to accept. Accepting it as your reality will guarantee your success -- either without her in a new life or with her in a second M if she tries to stop you from moving on. This is the essence of the LRT -- that your partner thinks you are moving on and no longer waiting for them. Your (old) M is over. Whichever fork you end on from here, you need to revitalize yourself.
OK, so we've talked a lot about Detaching, 180's, GAL, PMA, etc. Since Busto has raised the concept of the LRT, I'd like to shift the focus on this as I think this is now where I may be at with my W and my sitch. Or.... have I ot done enough detaching yet to move to the LRT?
I think I am beginning to understanding detachment which is to disengage from any emotional connection you have to the WAS. Successfully implemented, the LBS is no longer emotionally affected by actions that the WAS may take towards the LBS.
So how is detaching different from the LRT? Is detaching simply disengaging emotionally from the person while LRT is actually disengaging from the M?
If my definition is correct, then holy crap! If we thought detachment was tough, then the LRT must be really, really tough!
It seems to me that detaching is more of a strategy to help deal with the pain of a broken R and a tool to possibly win back your S by drawing them closer to you. LRT on the other hand seems like an acceptance of the loss of the M and basically saying so long W, I'm outta here!
How does one know when the time is right for the LRT? Isn't there danger of irreparable harm if implemented too soon in the process?
Now that I think about it I guess we have to come to the realization that the "irreparable harm" already occurred with the demise of the M and accept that reality and know that if there is a reconciliation it will be in a new M and not the old one.
Anyone care to shed some light on this?
Me51 W53 S17 S14 M22 T25 Bomb-9/11; A-11/11; I move out 11/11
It's easy to find our bottom, it is our top that requires cultivation.
Every rough spot adds to our emotional constitution. -Barney Fife
Great questions 2TP, I'm very interested in others responses. My interpretation of detaching from reading DR and these boards is to detach emotionially from anything your WAS does. Not sure what the actual basis behind it is but I also feel it is a strategy to prevent us LBS's from more pain or from over-reacting to things our WAS's do.
Their is such gray area in all this that it can be downright maddening! I see my WAW almost daily and want to be there in the moment to connect but also want to detach so I'm not hurt by her actions. I think the LRT is a strategy to provoke the WAS to see that we have essentially moved on and are ok w/o them and hopefully that may cause them a slight change in heart.
2TP - SIAS ^^^^^ may be correct. The endless internal debate over this can sometimes be so tiring. I would like to sleep for at least a year.
I think that in the end, you detach because you need to evaluate yourself in the light of truth without dependency on your W's actions, and you need to let them go to find their truth. Otherwise both of you probably never find the real truth behind both of your hearts and minds. Whatother way can there be for a new M to start that is fulfilling for both of you?
I think LRT is simply really the same thing....you accept the reality of the sitch.....you figure out your life, you take this opportunity to rediscover yourself...you improve where you need to...you let your W do the same.
I just think the endless wrangling over the terms of DB'ing can turn your thoughts to spaghetti. I think if you follow your heart, soul and the divine you are always on the right path. But, the good news is you don't have to do it alone because we are all here to bounce ideas off each other.
