Dark Shadows on the Roller Coaster

[bustorama]

2tp,

The one thing you can control in all of this is that you end up like 25's FIL -- that you GET IT and not repeat the same mistakes in your future relationships that you did in your past marriage with your W.

You cannot pressure your W to come back or win her over. You need to live the reality that she will not come back, because that is where she is (at the moment). You cannot force her to notice your changes or, more importantly, to trust that they are real and lasting, ESPECIALLY while she is in an A.

That's why your changes shouldn't be for her. They really should be for yourself, simply because it is the right way to live with yourself and with others. She doesn't want them to be for her anyway at this point -- you are too late, from her point of view, it's a slap in the face to her that you only change now after all she had to endure before turning away.

The more you detach yourself from what she is doing and remove yourself from what she is doing, the better off you will be. And I don't mean in an ostrich, waiting around, hoping for her sort of way. Again, it seems so counter-intuitive, but the more you accept that your marriage with her is over, the faster you (and she) will heal. If she has bits of love left for you, she will only notice them when you aren't there and then come looking for you.

And you need to be revitalizing yourself either way.

[bustorama]

See also:



and



Don't know if you saw this movie, but, relevant to the first clip, the girl does eventually call Mikey -- he had already moved on with his life when she did.

Mine called me too, I was on the edge of moving on when she did, and I think she thought I had moved on or realized I was about to when she called. Yours may or may not call you, but either way, you gotta move on with your life and become 'so money' in every respect (I don't mean in a cavalier, mean-spirited or man sluttish sort of way -- I mean accepting that she has broken up with you and living your life accordingly).

Hanging on focusing on them and hoping for them to 'come around' when they have broken up with you and are seeing another man is plan FAIL.

[purgatory]

WOW! So many amazing things posted by very wise people. I could replace 'her' with 'him' in 25's post to reflect my H's thoughts towards our M.
Bustorama- had a good insight: "it's a slap in the face that you only change now after all she had to endure". I think so many of us are guilty of this, whether it was a W or H that walked away. An if our spouses are feeling 'slapped' then it shouldn't surprise us that they aren't turning around quickly. (if you look at 25's and busto's timeline.... their M were recovered over a *year*.... we've got a long road ahead of us)

2theP- I have followed your posts for a while and have commented a few times, but I continued to be impressed by your strong foundation of faith and continued determination to be a role-model for your kids. You have also been able to be conscious of your interactions with W, instead of just reacting... this is a huge step in the right direction (exampled recently by your reaction to her comment while you were sitting on the couch.) And just to bring focus to what you already said, she never would have laid next to you 3 months ago, nor would you have said (what you said) 3 months ago.... you've already come a long way in a short time... just focus on these 'smaller accomplishments' because they will all add up to your desired goal of her coming back.
You are becoming a man that only a fool would leave.

[2thepoint]

25 - thank you for the lengthy post on WAW's. It certainly has given me much to consider. The examples you provided are helpful for putting things into their proper context which is something I need to help me digest and assess how I can make use of the information provided.

"2, and others, hope this helps. I can sum it up by saying that if you can muster up some real empathy for your wives and how they got where they are now

you'll be better able to see why YOU MUST BE MORE PATIENT THAN YOU EVER THOUGHT YOU COULD BE

b/c if your wife feels like this ^^^ wife did,

you've been tougher to live with and harder on her than you ever though you could be..."

I get the part about having empathy for my W for enduring what must have been very painful. I do and will continue to have that empathy for her. To be honest though, I also resent the fact that my W couldn't bring herself to suggest we seek MC or some other joint therapy to understand and work on our R problems. Neither one of us was ever good at communicating so perhaps this is why we never got to that point.

It still hurts like hell though knowing that had she done that or had I seen the issues for what they are and taken my own action, we might be in a different place than we are now.

FWIW, I don't think that my R with my W was anywhere near as toxic as the WAW's account you quoted above. I'm not saying she was necessarily unjustified in her decision, but clearly her A with the OM played a HUGE role in her decision to end the M without first seeking MC.

[sayitaintso]

Hey 2- I have been having my doubts lately as well. Little different sitch as my WAW moved out 5 months ago. As you know we have 3 kids and get along fairly well most of the time. We spend time together (w/ kids, not alone) and see each other almost daily. I still feel like she only wants to be friends and maybe she feels she tried everything prior to moving out (I don't agree) but we have yet to have a R talk and I will not bring it up.

All we can do is keep doing our best and try to find what works in reaching our long term goal. I have been all over the map in thinking she still has feelings, she doesn't, not even thinking I want to be with who she is now, etc.. You and I both seem willing to put our best foot forward for ourselves and our kids and until you feel you can no longer move forward have faith, however small, that things will work out as they should.

In any event, no matter what happens, in taking the high road and doing all we can we will have peace of mind at the end of this road,or roller-coaster ride, however long it is.

Best!!

[2thepoint]

Purgatory I appreciate your comments and words of encouragement. I agree that I have received a tremendous amount of information from people I respect and I hope that I can implement those ideas into my life that will make me a better person, father and possibly husband.

"I have followed your posts for a while and have commented a few times, but I continued to be impressed by your strong foundation of faith and continued determination to be a role-model for your kids. You have also been able to be conscious of your interactions with W, instead of just reacting... this is a huge step in the right direction (exampled recently by your reaction to her comment while you were sitting on the couch.) And just to bring focus to what you already said, she never would have laid next to you 3 months ago, nor would you have said (what you said) 3 months ago...."

This one has me a little confused. I don't recall this coming up in my posts. Perhaps I was quoting someone else and added my comments/perspective to their thread?

Anyway, thanks again for your comments and encouragement! Now I need to respond to the others who posted.

[2thepoint]

Rickb - Thanks for your thoughtful post. I'm still considering what to do abut the depression. I will seek a professional opinion but how I manage it if there is in fact depression is still to be determined. The yoga thing is a good idea. My friend sent me a yoga DVD for my birthday that I haven't opened yet but will this week. So, thanks for the reminder.

Regarding the other part of your post, in a nutshell I think what you are saying is that the selfish behaviors that permeated my M and yours have to be replaced by more thoughtful and loving attention to our spouses. And, when this shift occurs, it is then that our W's may begin to react in a more positive way towards us.

I agree with the concept. However, I think that we also have to be careful not to take this to an extreme where our W's then interpret our actions incorrectly and we become doormats or taken for granted or viewed as weak, etc. It is a delicate balance and we need to be careful that over time we don't start to build our own resentments.

So, I've got to find that balance while also detaching, and GAL, and maintaining my 180's, and so on, and so on, and so on...

Oh joy!

[2thepoint]

Busto - Thanks as always for your posts.

"You cannot pressure your W to come back or win her over. You need to live the reality that she will not come back..."

Yep, I get this. No pressure. And, I am not applying any pressure. I'm eternally hopeful, but I am not applying any pressure.

"That's why your changes shouldn't be for her. They really should be for yourself, simply because it is the right way to live with yourself and with others. She doesn't want them to be for her anyway at this point -- you are too late, from her point of view, it's a slap in the face to her that you only change now after all she had to endure before turning away."

This explains why she reacted so negatively shortly after she dropped the bomb and I went into full 180 mode. She got really angry, like where the "F" have you been for the last X years? I didn't understand it at the time as evidenced by the title of my original threads, but I do now!

"The more you detach yourself from what she is doing and remove yourself from what she is doing, the better off you will be. And I don't mean in an ostrich, waiting around, hoping for her sort of way. Again, it seems so counter-intuitive, but the more you accept that your marriage with her is over, the faster you (and she) will heal. If she has bits of love left for you, she will only notice them when you aren't there and then come looking for you."

I think this is where a lot of people in our sitch struggle. The thought that the M is truly over is such a crushing realization of defeat that it is almost impossible to accept. Almost impossible.... I understand! I see what you are saying.

The M is over (at least the old one) so now it is time to pull up the boot straps and move on, for me. Not for her! Maybe she'll look back, maybe she won't. Move on nonetheless. Or the alternative is I can wallow in my despair and never ever have a chance of R with her or anyone else for that matter. Got it!!

Thanks for the clips. I have not seen that movie but may see if I can find t. Too funny, "they know not to come back until you REALLY forget."

Kind of reminds me of Adele's "Someone Like You" -

"I heard that you're settled down
That you found a girl and you're married now.
I heard that your dreams came true.
Guess she gave you things I didn't give to you....."

"I hate to turn up out of the blue uninvited
But I couldn't stay away, I couldn't fight it.
I had hoped you'd see my face and that you'd be reminded
That for me it isn't over....."

[2thepoint]

As you know we have 3 kids and get along fairly well most of the time. We spend time together (w/ kids, not alone) and see each other almost daily. I still feel like she only wants to be friends and maybe she feels she tried everything prior to moving out (I don't agree) but we have yet to have a R talk and I will not bring it up.

Well it may be that you will need to develop a strong friendship before you can advance to a more intimate relationship again with your W. At least that is what I've read here and elsewhere.

I agree putting our best foot forward for ourselves and our children will pay dividends in the future. Some how, some way.

[workinghardguy]

It's a double-edged sword too... other folks have suggested that what woman wants an M with their "best friend". You don't have sex with your friends (usually I suppose)

At the same time, with kids in the picture, they benefit from mom and dad getting along. That's all they really want. Life for a kid is through their needs and their focus; they are kids after all and haven't developed the sense of others yet. So mom and dad being able to co-exist in the same space (if even only for a soccer game or a concert) is really important to them. It means that, while the world is not as stable as they thought, it isn't as crazy as it might be.

It's like you have to take the Faustian bargain. Do you exist as "friends" with your XW to make life better on your kids though it may negatively impact reconciliation? Or do you go mega-dark and shut her out, and move on knowing that it will hurt the kids but increase the chance of recon which is best for everyone?

Or do you take the middle-of-the-road and try to find a way to be dark, shut her out, and move on whilst still being engaged, friendly, and keeping the road home paved and smooth.

Confusing.