Working on my LRT

[ces67]

Hi again, Just an update/journal entry so to speak about our 11 hour drive home yesterday. My W felt ok enough to travel.

The kids watched movies most of the day in the back seat. My W and I did very little talking except a few quick coordination items about her going to her sister's to help with the new baby later this week and when to stop & eat.

During the trip, she made a few phone calls to continue planning for her friend's b-day party. She texted a lot during the day as well. I took the advice and said nothing about her trip and asked no questions at all. The only conversations I initiated were about when to stop for breaks and how she was feeling a couple times. Both were replied with short and to the point answers; not rude, just not much.

So the W travel schedule is as follows.
This Friday, fly to her sister's to visit with new neice (who is adorable by the way).
Fly back home next Wednesday 1/11
Drive to former home on Thurs 1/12 (8 to 9 hour drive)
B-day Party Friday night
Drive home either Monday 1/16 or Tuesday 1/17

I have no confirmation on where she is staying or what she is doing the rest of the week.

One of her conversations was with with her friend whose H is/was the OM. They are going in together to get the b-day girl a gift.

We got home about 10:30 last night. During the last 30 to 40 minutes of the trip, my W got visibly upset. She held her head in her hands a lot and by the end of the trip, had her knees tucked up under her chin with, cluthing a pillow and quietly crying into it with her face buried in the pillow.

I have no idea how to deal with this. Even though she had told me that this move would be good and she was excited for me and my new job, she has hated it here ever since we moved 17 months ago. She blames me and has told me this move was "all about me" even though we had talked through the reasons for the move and agreed (or so I thought).

Any comfort I have offered in the past has been denied so I offered none last night. I simply took care of business by unpacking the car, helping get the kids to bed and then going to the grocery store around 11:30pm so there would be food for breakfast and lunch today.

I hate to see her so miserable but have no idea how to help. This is especially true since she said she does not want to "let me in to her life anymore".

Now turning my focus to work and thinking of fun things to do with the kids once the W leaves.

[sandi2]

This does seem very contrary to what I want to do but from reading the book, I see where you're coming from.

This is why I have this at the bottom of my posts:
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!

"WenikiTiki" has had a like situation as you in her stitch. Her H and best friend are having an on again/off again A.

My W told me nothing ever happened between them and I find it hard to believe she would continue to talk to this OM's wife as much as she does if something were going on between them still.

Trust me, when a WAW is in an EA....she's capable of most anything. Yes, including maintaining a friendship with OM's W. An EA is very serious to a woman, so when she says nothing happened physically....that's not saying OM didn't invade every other way. Does his W know that there has ever been any "interest" between her H and your W?

Obviously the spying is a hard thing for me.

It can become obsessive if you don't cut it off.

I hate the idea that she is trying to pull one over on me. Maybe its my pride but I don't want to be played the fool.

I think pride is an important part for men, whereas a woman might would tend to see it as more issues of the heart.

So if she is having an EA/PA, will that be a deal breaker?

I also don't want to believe that my W would go so far as to ruin someone else's marriage, even if she's given up on ours.

Let me tell you what I've learned. Once a woman cheats on her H (EA or PA), her thought process is tainted during the time she's feeling this new "falling in love". IOW, you are not dealing with the girl you married. She's changed and she'll do what you least expect. She's already broken a couple of commandments, so it wouldn't be that big of a stretch for her to come between OM and his W.

The first thing you need to know within your own heart is how far you're willing to go in this M. What do you see as a deal breaker? Most LBH's discover that they can take more than they ever thought possible.

If your W is in an A (and I think it's a sure bet she having an EA, if not PA), what would you want to do? I ask that question about you....not her. I'm not asking about your wants. You want your W to end contact with OM, but what if she continues to deny the A and yet, contacts & visit him? This is about your actions or decisions. You need to know what you will do or how long you will hold on, and then have a more solid plan. Otherwise, you'll feel as if you're living on the edge of a cliff and not knowing what to do.

((hugs))

[ces67]

Thanks. This is so hard to digest.

What I want to do is be strong. I want to be who I want to be and live with integrity. I want to win my wife back. And even if that doesn't happen, I want to move on and live my life being happy and not miserable.

Not sure what the deal breaker would be. As of now, I believe I can handle the EA. Honestly, if my wife were truly wanting to work on our marriage, I could see myself overcoming a PA as well. It would be hard and I would struggle greatly but I have to belief God will see me through whatever happens.

I've resisted the spying today. Haven't check any cell phone logs at all for texting or calls.

I got home today and had to pick the the mail that was held while we were out of town. When I walked in I started sorting it out. She came over and took it all and said she'd go through it. When I followed here to get a couple things addressed to me, she went off on me for being controlling.

Background: She claims I have been controlling in our marriage. I may very well have come across this way and have asked for examples so I can understand. The only one she has given me is cancelling her credit cards which I did about 2 months about after she nearly maxed out 2. I had also attempted to talk to her about her spending multiple times to no success.

I let it pass and walked away calmly. Just a little later I went upstairs and apologized for coming across as controlling. In the past I would have defended myself on the point but resisted this time. She went on to say how I'm always that way. I simple said that I was sorry she saw it that way and went on about my evening. Not sure if I did the 180 very well but she did seem to calm down a bit even though we haven't talked much the rest of the evening.

OK, so I can definitely see where the woman I married is MIA is many ways. My question is, should I alert the wife of the OM? If nothing truly happened, then I'm pushing my wife even further away. If something did happen, will that just clear the way for the 2 of them to be together?

I would feel awful if something was taking place and I didn't let the woman know. A little confused on this part.

I appreciate the feedback. I can certainly see where my arguing points in the past have not helped. I'm letting her vent on me but I get tired of being beaten up, especially when the kids hear it. It doesn't happen often, but its happened.

[ces67]

And just to clarify, "To win my wife back" means to love her in a way that she feels loved & special. I truly saw her as my best friend for years and I miss her.

Not sure if I've said this but she brought up the idea of divorce 17 months ago. during what little counseling we did, she said she wanted to stay together for the sake of the kids but once they were gone, she may be as well.

My response was I wasn't sure we could pull that off and actually created a healthy environment for the kids. Since that time, I can't see myself putting the kids through a divorce.

[sandi2]

My question is, should I alert the wife of the OM? If nothing truly happened, then I'm pushing my wife even further away. If something did happen, will that just clear the way for the 2 of them to be together?

That's a topic that has been thrashed around the board. Some say the OM's W should not be left in the dark about the A, and that once the A is exposed then it will end. However, that's not always the case. One thing for sure, it would not cause your W to go running back and fall into your arms. But it might stop the A. It's just not something one can predict the outcome.

Most women are very perceptive toward other females. That's why when she tries to tell a man something is going on, he thinks she's nuts b/c he doesn't see it. If they get too bold, the OM's W will pick up on that....if she's not totally blind. Whenever there is sexual chemistry between a couple, it's kind of hard to hide, especially in that setting. All it takes is one unguarded look at each other for his W to see it in their eyes.

MWD does not teach exposure at all. You have to be your own judge about it. IMO, it doesn't work as a DBing technique for your M, but it might save the other one. However, for all you know, the woman knows but she's acting dumb b/c she is scared of being faced with it once it's uncovered. Many women do that.

If I were you, I wouldn't do anything right now. As you said, it may push them together.

That's often why you need to know what the deal breakers are for you, and don't react to something out of emotions if you can wait and run it by the board first.

[ces67]

Thanks. I keep checking my motives. Right now it feels like telling the OM's wife may be more vindictive than actually trying to help so that tells me to hold off.

Recently we've had calls at the house from "debt elimination" companies and we've received insurance estimates. From the messages it seems my W has initiated these but has not mentioned them to me at all. So my question is this. Is she quietly trying to help our financial situation or is she looking for how to set out on her own? Rhetorical question obviously. No one knows but her... The fact that she was so concerned about me going through the mail, made me wonder if she's hiding something there.

Prior to vacation my W had e-mailed me and suggested we do a money mgmt study together. Last night during her attack, I explained (as several times before) that I would rather work together and is she still willing to do the money mgmt study with me? Her answer was "I don't know".

Should I ask about these quotes and calls?

The OM & his W have their own business and their office manager walked out on them. My W has approached them about working for them. She would be able to work out of the house and provide some extra income.

My W mentioned this to me prior to our vacation. I told her she would be good at it. I also explained that while I believed her when she told me that nothing happened between her and the OM, that it was still a concern for me that she would be interacting on a regular basis with him.

When I said this, she would not look me in the eye but came across as "meek" and didn't really reply to my comment. This was about 3 weeks ago.

She's not brought it up since to me but I've overheard her conversations with her sisters that lead me to believe this option isn't working out. Also, last night she seemed to make a point to talk on the phone to her friends so that I could hear her say how she was looking forward to getting away and seeing them. She was talking with the OM's wife and was asking if there was anything she could do to help with the business. I of course couldn't hear the her friend but the answer seemed to be "no". Sandi, maybe you're right and her friend does sense something and is setting her own boundaries.

Still working on my goals. I haven't forgotten. I hope to post them later today and would appreciate feedback on whether or not I'm on the right track.

[ces67]

I have a habit of minimizing good things so thought I would post a few items that seemed positive.

1) She did suggest the money mgmt book together (even if she doesn't follow through with it)
2) She suggested we have a family picture from the holidays to send cards out after the first of the year
3) She has apologized on several occasions for being short with me
4) She just texted me to ask how I was feeling (had a fever last night and was thinking I'd caught what she had). She even replied back that she was glad I was feeling better.

Surely, I'm not the only person on this board married to a "Jekyl & Hyde" right???

[sandi2]

Recently we've had calls at the house from "debt elimination" companies and we've received insurance estimates.

We've received calls like that too. Those guys are pretty crafty. IMO, you shouldn't bring it up and question her. That sort of falls into the category of "pick your battles".

I explained (as several times before) that I would rather work together and is she still willing to do the money mgmt study with me?

I really think that whenever your W attacks you...is not the time to go over something you've discussed before. The less said, the better. I know it's hard, but it is possible!

My W has approached them about working for them.

She's got nerve doesn't she? I tell you what she doesn't have......respect for OM's W or you. That would be a low-down thing to do, but she wouldn't be the first.

My W mentioned this to me prior to our vacation. I told her she would be good at it. I also explained that while I believed her when she told me that nothing happened between her and the OM, that it was still a concern for me that she would be interacting on a regular basis with him.

This is where I think you need to be very clear about her not working anywhere around OM, his W, or for that business. I think you can rest assured she has had an EA (at the lest) with this man, and even if they cooled their heels a while, every time she had contact with him....it would send her straight back to the square one. That's how it works. It's just like being addicted to drugs. I know I cannot have any contact with the man I had an EA with (not even as "friends"). That's like saying you just want to be friends with cocaine.

Don't make any threats or ultimatum that you don't mean, b/c she's very likely to call your bluff. But neither do I think you need to be passive with her where OM is concerned. The truth is, she's a cheater and she lies. Our buddy, Starsky, says that all cheaters lie. I never lied verbally to my H, but the fact I was cheating on him made me a liar.

I think I'm safe in saying that your W will not do anything with the best intentions for the MR. She is far removed from that right now.

[ces67]

Sandi2 said: This is where I think you need to be very clear about her not working anywhere around OM, his W, or for that business.

Not sure I have any clout to pull off that request at this time. I think this will fall in my favor as they don't seem to want to deal with an out of state employee. Keeping my fingers crossed that's the case.

At this point, I would certainly guess that she'd pick her friends over me. Anything I would say to try and limit their interactions would be cast as "controlling". As you said, our MR is not her priority at all so why should she change any of her current relationships because I asked? All I could do is try and kick her out and I can't see myself doing that at this point.

Sandi2: I know I cannot have any contact with the man I had an EA

If I can ask, what did it take to make you break the EA? No idea what it will take to have her give our marriage a chance. In many ways I feel manipulated. She knows I want our marriage to work. She relies on my for all financial support yet she crafts here life so that I am involved as little as possible. Most times I feel like I'm being manipulated.

She has free rent, clothes, food, a car to drive. She does her own thing each day and seems to make no great effort to find a job. She got a temp certification to teach this school year but instead of looking for a job, she spent whole summer back at our former home. I've alway been glad to provide so she could stay home with the kids but now it feels like I'm being used.

I also posted about how she texted me this morning to see how I was. Should I consider this a small success of how I handled her attacks last night? Its kind of a routine that she'll blow up and attack me verbally. Then a day or two later she'll apologize or try and be nicer to me.

I worry that she has no consistent postive influences in her life. She mainly talks to her 2 friends in our former state, the OM's wife and the birthday girl. Neither one seems to have a strong compass of marital union...

My actions are to continue to keep my cool and not get into arguments or defend myself. I'll simply listen as much as I can.

Should I bring up the money mgmt study again? It was initially her idea that we do it. When I brought it up after her attacks last night she said "I don't know". If I don't bring it up, I'll at least get the books myself and do them. I'm tired of being financially strapped.

Looking forward to her leaving this Friday to go see her sister. Its just less stressful when she's gone. I never know what I'm coming home to. She's often grumpy, or running errands with the kids or has the evening organized so that she and the kids are busy with their stuff. I need to figure out a way to create "my things" with the kids.

One thing I want to do is start taking the kids to bible class on Wednesday evenings again. We use to always go. She's made excuses to not attend to where we only go on Sunday mornigns now and she typically runs late so we miss class. The kids have always enjoyed going, have good friends there and were really excited when we moved here and found a church. They really liked it. I'll have a chance to start the habit again while she's gone.

Consistency right? I just need to keep being a positive and happy person. Situation does not dictate attitude. That's my choice and I choose to be happy. Right now I'm just having to focus on being happy while also dealing with the reality of emotional pain always present to some degree in my head & heart. But my kids deserve a happy dad and that's what they will have!

[ces67]

OK, so I'm full of questions. Any thoughts/feedback would be appreciated:

Part of my situation is W went on crazy spending spree with credits. (personal travel for her & kids, entertainment & shopping) I was too fearful to rock the boat so I let it go on too long. Mentioned several times and finally had to cancel W credit cards (all in my name). Also opened separate checking to manage bills. I have a set amount going into an account for W. Not much but its a lot more than what I have left after handling all expenses.

W complains this is overly controlling. I've replied by saying it is not my preference but since she is unwilling to work wtih me I saw no other option and had to focus on getting family out of debt.

Question is, should I give W a chance and open up access to our checking again with the agreement that we must agree on how things are spent? Or is this giving in? Still not sure if she will follow through on money mgmt study she suggested.

When I made the change, W refused to make grocery lists or do regular shopping for house/groceries. Rather than argue, I simply took on the task and even made the meal menu. In the past couple weeks, she has started making the menu & grocery list again but I still do the shopping. Am I being too controlling? How do I know when its time to edge back to working together?