I spent all night with XW..........on the phone

[AntoniaB]

She has said that line before or one awfully close to it...it doesn't strike me as evidence she has been reading here.

If she was, I think I'd feel pretty confident in predicting that she would then start to use THIS BOARD as the reason there is no chance. I can hear it now: "if you hadn't talked to other people about our sitch, there'd be a chance." Or "I was going to think about trying to work it out till I read that someone on that board called me crazy."

ALL MLCer lack one thing: COURAGE. They cannot just do what they do and accept that they did it. They have to claim that something else or someone else made them do it. They don't have the courage to stand up for themselves and their actions without acting like something forced their hand.

Even though the divorce is over, she's still laying the script out to you every time she gets access. She won't stop until you stop her from doing it.

You have to make major changes in cutting her out of your life as much as humanly possible or nothing will ever change for you.

[AJM]

Hi Tad. Glad things are changing. Or not. But you are and that's good to hear. Your balance is way better than it used to be, that's for sure.

Can I point something out? Long ago I pointed to her coming back at some point. She likely will try Tad. I don't recommend you let her but rather wait and see how things go for a very long time if that really does happen. I say that it will based on some of what I see, and I think (personally) she wants to control. She is derailing you for her own benefit. That is not healthy Tad.

What is not healthy is that you are still trying to fix you and you are getting dragged down. Why? I think she wants to control you. I think she is not happy and doesn't want you to be until she gets her sh** together.

It comes to this. If she wants in, she will have to overtly try. But she will try to keep the connection while she decides if she wants to or not. She will try to push your buttons to get a reaction and that will tear you apart and prevent you from becoming healthy. Don't allow that. It's a boundary you need to learn to set witih anyone.

She told you she knows how you feel. You have made that clear. Don't say it again Tad. No matter what, Ok?

She told you many confusing things. She is pushing buttons. Keep your conversations short and to the point and let it go as the ramblings of a mad woman. I see much of that in that conversation and it's not that I'm suspicious, but rather have been there and done that. I didn't listen at the time (wasn't ready) and it set me back a long way.

Don't make that mistake. Keep your distance and stay away. She asked for you to let her go. She is a mad woman. Let her go and be mad and figure things out on her own. You do the same for you and deal with things as they happen.

Be you Tad. Let others be themselves and put a lot of time and distance between you and the ex. What you do or whom you do it with is now your business alone. Keep it that way.

AJ

[tadpole1025]

Thank you 25, Seeking, Antonia and AJ.

I'd like to meet her...in person...if I were armed...

Haha! Classic 25.

Seeking, thank you for the very nice words.

Even though the divorce is over, she's still laying the script out to you every time she gets access. She won't stop until you stop her from doing it.

You're right Antonia. I get sucked in every single time. Maybe I'm just an idiot. Just can't help that I'm nuts about her ya know?

Today was uneventful, but I have noticed something. Whenever we have a spat or when she has been very mean, she will barely open up her door wide enough for S16 to get out of her house when I pick him up. She did it again today. I've noticed it a few times and it is just weird. I'm sure, as the patterns goes, she will be distant for a little while before coming around again. Really weird how this stuff works...

Long ago I pointed to her coming back at some point. She likely will try Tad.

Thanks AJ, but I'm not so sure. Apparently right out of the blue on Friday after picking up S16, She said to him:

HER: Do you still have hope that your dad and I will get back together?

S16: Yeah.

HER: Well, I don't want to give you false hope but that is probably not going to happen.

I've heard this before, but why would she ask this of him? Also, it seems like the "false hope" phrase gets used here a lot by people. Is this something that MLCers commonly say?

Just curious.....

Tad

[Ajay]

I have heard it said to me, so it is world wide. Like the "Too little, too late" script. It's almost like they go to a reference book to get these phrases, or do they come from the depressing junk on TV nowadays?

[angel61]

She knows your son will tell you, thats why she told him. Its still clssic spinning. If she lies to you, she can lie to her kids too. She probably lies to herelf as well and believes it.

By the way, I love the way kml dissected your W's words.

About the words they all use, its amazing. My H is not a reader, but he did use the same words: too little, too late when I said I could change; he used "false hopes" was used a lot, "feeling stuck", wanting to "run away", "its not you, its me", me being "controlling" in everything I do, "I need space", etc.etc.et.

That is why when I found this site, it gave me hope. I realized that its not only me with the problem, but many of us. I felt that there would be an end to it if I were patient enough. I read what the people who succeeded in saving their M's did and tried my darnednest best to follow them. Hearts Blessing, 25, Sandi, Sad but Happy - to name a few.

And really, it boiled down to three main things: The basics....

Detachment
Patience
Loving yourself.

Deatchment is hardest, but it is the most important. It is THE life saving skill all of us have to learn and keep on applying. It makes you not answer back when they are spewing. It makes you able to walk away from the phone convos, the provocations, the fights. It makes you able to love from a distance. It enables one to deal with the small realities, the necessary logistics like child care, like discussions finances, without it turning into mudlisnging sessions. It also keeps you from getting sucked back in.

Tad, you are slowly learning, keep working on it. YOu still have a long ways to go.

Take care Tad!

[Kimmerz]

Tad,
MLC aside, try to remember this when this happens, and you feel sucked in and all confused, and your emotions start to rise.

Look at the situation for what it is. Look at how she's handled it from start to present.

Look at how you've handled it.

How many oppurtunities has she had to straighten up and act maturely about all of this?

I think there comes a time that for anyone that has one ounce of maturity or rationality left inside them, they will realize that and can see the big picture for what it is.

I don't see her understanding the big picture here, which she can't because she's really out there now. And really it is very sad to see someone going through what she is.

Detatchment is the hardest, and when you have consistent contact like that, it will really hinder your ability to move forward. It is the hardest thing you will ever do. But subjecting yourself to her emotional and mental abuse over and over again will just keep you stuck.

[tadpole1025]

Thanks Ajay, Angel and Kimmerz.

It's been a few days since I checked in mostly because there hasn't been much to tell.

I find I've been cycling I guess between sadness, hurt, anger, sadness, hurt and back to anger.

I've got some stuff sitting in my front yard because I am getting ready to have a yard sale. XW saw it today when she picked up S16 and kind of got into a tiff with S19. I was at work.

Apparently, according to S19 she got fairly upset about some of the stuff that I was getting rid of. She accused us of "throwing away memories." WTF? She's done nothing but throw the family away and created bad memories in the last year. She also started to remove the hummingbird feeder from the yard that I am NOT selling, but S19 wouldn't let her have it. She claimed that she bought it and therefore it belonged to her. I thought that anything that was purchased during a marriage was ours. She just thinks that she is entitled to everything. Is that typical MLC behavior?

S19 told me that she made it sound like she bought everything and I didn't do a damn thing.

She is also claiming that she wants some more stuff out of the house. I told her in a quick phone conversation tonight that she isn't entitled to anything else because she told the judge that we had already divided things equally when she took off like a bat out of hell.

She told S19 that she only took stuff for a "seperation" and not a divorce. (I'm still getting the blame for the divorce.) I think she is crazy. If she took stuff just for a "seperation", she would have only taken stuff that she absolutely needed. She wouldn't have went through the trouble of dividing pictures etc....

S19 says that she seemed bothered/sad about it. Maybe things are starting to dawn on her?

I just don't know.....

Tad

[Kimmerz]

Tad.... WOW. How can you know?

I really have no idea what to make of her behavior..... I would think the Vet's here would say Classic MLc... yet quite frankly it seems like plain insanity to me!

It sounds like she contradicts everything she says or does.

When you get firm with her and call her on her behaviors, how does she respond?

[irishblessings]

Tad - I wish I could see from your description your X having regrets - but honestly i don't see it. She is just living her life. And I would encourage you to live yours with NO connection to hers. JMO...

[25yearsmlc]

Tad.... WOW. How can you know?


"know" what?? That she's emotionally unbalanced? That this is more than MLC?

I "KNOW" that From her words and her behavior over the last year or so. She has not been consistently anything - but various negative versions of nasty, sad, outraged, paranoid, self centered, regretful, furious, and plain old batchit nuts.

Among the clearest examples of her being BEYOND THE MLC, imo, was when she accused him of having an affair OR the desire for one, with a girl he knew in 6th grade and with whom he'd had NO contact....
AND
the yo yo effect is the worst I've seen. Hot and cold (well, more like slightly lukewarm and then FREEZING)

The second she shows the slightest movement NOT towards reconciling BUT just towards a more adult R with Tad,

then he openly jumps thru hoops that shows his hope (although YOU are better now than before Tad. I don't want to say you have not grown at all...far from it.)

But dang you still get so sucked in at her littlest "EFFORT" (using that word with wild abandon)

and THEN she slaps him down. It sure appears cruel. And It sure hurts him. And it sure keeps happening.

Does it really matter WHY she does it, if it keeps happening? At this point, I'd say NO it does not matter why

b/c it won't change the FACT THAT SHE DIVORCED HIM....

So what HE can DO about it now? Detach. The most repeated word on this thread- and sadly, the most ignored.

Even if he were to hold out hope for a reconciliation in the future, it could not happen now or soon b/c neither of them are healthy enough to interact well together. So again the "course of action" is DETACHMENT.

They push each other's buttons and his ex wife has A LOT of buttons...and

I hate to beat a dead horse, but once again, SHE DIVORCED HIM.. isn't it time to stop thinking about what's in HER head or heart and start

controlling what's in Tad's?
.

I really have no idea what to make of her behavior..... I would think the Vet's here would say Classic MLc...

Not THIS vet...

yet quite frankly it seems like plain insanity to me!


While It's true that her age (peri-menopausal) and the early behavior/confusion fit that MLC stereotype.

But she's gone beyond that in both the types of behaviors (the paranoid behavior was always odd. & The level of her controlling behavior especially NOW after over a year AND POST DIVORCE is just too nutty. And SHE left her home and kids...that's NOT a typical WAW OR MLC...)

Also her emotions- especially her ANGER at this stage, is very extreme... She doesn't just get irritated or irked or annoyed. She gets FURIOUS!

You'd think she'd exhaust herself by now, but nope...she ramps it up again AND SHE GETS ENRAGED and weirdly, it's STILL ALL HIS FAULT...

So I See in her,

zero to little insight to her part in this, even a year out of this AND

even post divorce when she no longer has to feel defensive b/c the "war is over", right? Didn't she "win"??

and no healthy reflections on her end and

STILL with the crazy anger and

STILL with the wacky control issues and NO irony or hypocrisy noted...

telling him NOT to date or bring OWs to HER HOME...or to replace her?


SHe had OM! So, Excuse me? Who is she to say a THING to him about any of that?

her behavior is simply beyond galling--it's out of the bell curve of normal to neurotic behavior and into the neurotic to psycho end of the spectrum, at least as it relates to her family r's.

IF this stuff she says and does is really all out of character then she has snapped...and Tad cannot fix her.

She's a bomb with a big blast zone and people need to stay out her range...

but Tad, you dance to her tune. She keeps this up, even now, after divorcing you and putting the boys thru hell too...

and still swoops in and creates havoc and AND

you still let her. Tad, you are part of the problem.

Thankfully, YOU control YOU,

so when you decide to DO somethiing different so your life can change

you can create a happy life for yourself.

Evidently, you are more comfortable with the hell you know than the unknown world of love and rational behavior and honesty, in the life you could create for yourself.

IF you'd just let go, and detach...


It sounds like she contradicts everything she says or does.

When you get firm with her and call her on her behaviors, how does she respond?

never happened so who knows?

But I say it doesn't matter now. Tad, move on and detach.

IF she ever wants to reconcile, She certainly knows how to get you and she knows where you live.

For the forseeable future She has a ton of personal work to do, which she has not yet begun, and her presence in your life

only hinders your work on YOU...and hurts the boys more.

So let her go. For ALL concerned.