Youngster Questions Reality, WAW Moves On...

[25yearsmlc]

Today, I had a bit of an epiphany. (As I often do.) I caught myself getting sucked into bouts of what people on the forums like to call "stinkin' thinkin'." My mind frequently gravitates towards the anger and betrayal of my sitch, and today I thought, "Who is this helping? Nobody. It's only dragging me down and making me feel worse."

Yes...

I wondered why we did that but I THINK that we LBSers used to think, before our "awakenings" or epiphanies,

that somehow going to the dark place, kept the WAS there too...but it doesn't. It only makes US in a dark place. The WAS is off on their own having a good time or a bad time completely UNrelated to what we are doing or thinking or feeling.
Believe it or not, this simple and sort of obvious realization is actually a big step for you when it sinks in. Let it sink in.

And the saying you have below, reminds me of the one I heard re: to anger and forgiveness, which was something like

"Holding onto anger to punish, is like lighting yourself on fire to get smoke in someone else's eyes."

I was reminded of one of my favorite quotes, attributed to Buddha: "Holding onto anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned."

I am often inspired by people who come into my bank every day with an infectious grin and a warm, energizing attitude. Whatever might be going on in their lives, they clearly make an active choice to be positive, happy people. Not only does it make them feel better, it makes the people around them feel better.

Remember this^^^^and implement it as a life style CHOICE, b/c it is.

Aristotle said "Happiness is a virtue" b/c he knew it does not just "happen to the lucky ones"...it's a choice and it IS an active choice requiring action of some sort...kind of like how LOVING SOMEONE IS AN ACTIVE CHOICE - REQUIRING ACTION OF SOME SORT...every day...

If you practice this simple but challenging approach to life, you will be a happier man.

Isn't that a wonderful thing to KNOW??

And now you do.



I like helping positive people the most because it makes me feel good just being around them.

So...basically....working harder on cultivating a PMA. I'm tired of making the conscious choice to be unhappy. It serves no one.

^^^^ = PROOF OF A GOD!!! I don't mean to mock you b/c I'm a believer, but I'm SO glad you are getting this now. YAY!!!

Also, my other big goal is to GAL in the form of being around other people. I am proud of the GAL-ing that I am doing in my personal life including reading, watching good flicks, exercising, and writing, but apart from excursions to my home town to visit with my family, I'm not doing a very good job of meeting new people.

Part of the problem is the area. My W and I moved here solely because this is her hometown and her parents live here, so the only friends I made here are ones who were already friends with my W. I have no friends of my own.


This is some horn tooting of mine but it's b/c you need examples.

I was depressed when we lived in the interior of Alaska. I had a newborn and a h who went nuts on me....but
here's a partial list of what I did there, mostly in the winter, with temperatures of -50'F...

(and no, I'm not exaggerating the temp, nor had I had ANY experience with something like that. I'm from near DC, AND no, I'm not talking about wind chill...AND -what global warming??)

SO here's what I did so I would not go insane or get even more depressed,
I had 3 kids, 12, 8 and a newborn..

So I joined the wives club for the first time ever. Up THERE, it helped.

Auditioned for dinner theater and community theater, and soon got roles. After one, I was able to get a role in every play that had a woman in it.

I tried and then kept on doing stand up comedy in the big club, and did it rather well. ( I do it here in LA and i get paid for it now. Go figure).

Worked out and used a tanning booth--needed the sun even if I got skin cancer.

Saw a T and got on meds for the winters.

Joined a writer's group. Excellent and therapeutic and a great way to meet people - although some will be uber sad...go to the light!! Meet up with the witty ones and meet their fun friends...

I Took a pottery class--weird for me but fun, and I still have my mugs!

Got a pilot's license and learned to fly small planes, partly b/c h was doing it and that scared me if he got hurt and I'd be useless, but also b/c I had always wanted to do that and then HE Did...so heck ya, I joined that activity...

Learned to hunt and went deep sea fishing several times. Was successful in both.

Edited a hunting book that became a best seller in its' genre. Gave lectures in my areas of "expertise", at first for free and then later for money.

Took some legal clients on and worked.

I Wrote several newspaper columns for the paper. I Volunteered at the women's shelter and then later, got on the Board of Directors. Joined a book club--easy GAL to do- read the book and then discuss it with new people you do not have to see again if you don't want to BUT you can if you do....clubs are listed in the paper or online in your area.

I Coached a girl's softball team. Formed the "Gifted Kids Booster" club --(you don't have to have a kid to help them in some way)

I taught a public speaking class to Priest candidates through our church,

WENT TO CHURCH...and for now, that's all I can think of.

But you get my point, right? You are qualified for much more than you realize.

Choose to be happy. And since you know it's an active choice, you MUST DO something that gets you happy.

It's a chain reaction. The thought of the activity and maybe getting out of your comfort zone (which expands it) starts it...

and then DOING the activity helps... and always feeling that you have achieved something...once you are there or did it. And

meeting new people and gratefully conceding that you will learn at least one thing from a new person that day.

Feeling happier, and noticing it, savoring it, enjoying the RECALL of it, (the exponentiality of happiness, how it grows in different directions and

leads to other people unexpectedly AND OR to other unexpected activities AND it is--- fascinating in a science fictiony way)

Marvel at it.



Another problem is my work. Work is great and has allowed me to get out with my co-workers to go to dinner. However, I won't lie when I say that women outnumber men in my profession greatly. Any guys are usually in higher positions or work in the back offices.

I don't get it. What is the problem here?

A third problem is money. While I'm not flat-broke, I don't have a lot. I like to keep what I can in reserve.

Look at my GAL list and see that more than half cost me little OR NOTHING...and prioritize...what rainy day are you saving for?

I mean, I am a reg investment advisor and want retirement accounts and investing wisdom...but you are a sad person. So...

A fourth problem is that I'm a bit of a paradox when it comes to socializing. I am the kind of person who is initially very shy and hates being dropped into a situation with people who I don't know. However, once I get to know someone and get a feel for how they work, I completely loosen up and become very talkative, joking, and out-going.

Any suggestions? I'm hoping to make at least one of these local write-ins for NaNoWriMo. It seems like such a great opportunity, and I would hate to waste it.


I WILL WRITE MORE WHEN I CAN...

On a side-note, does anybody have any perspective on the sitch with my W and OM? I hate to bring this up because I shouldn't be thinking about her at all, but I figure that it wouldn't hurt to hear some advice. Coming up on the 14th, she will have been living with him for three months.

I thought for sure that being forced to live with OM day-in and day-out for just a short while would destroy the fantasy that most A's seem to be built on. When she called me complaining about him, saying that his "true colors" were showing, I thought for sure that it was over. Now all I hear from her is how they're probably going to get M'd and how he walks on water.

At this point, I'm starting to become convinced that OM really is everything my W wants. (I'm not going to lie, hearing her say, "He's everything you should have been" during our last meeting cut me to the bone.)

[Ajay]

(I'm not going to lie, hearing her say, "He's everything you should have been" during our last meeting cut me to the bone.)

That is exactly why she said it of course.

I am like you, not very keen on social situations and do not enjoy meeting people for the first time. I have been more able to do it when I had W with me, but now I have to stand on my own two feet.

To that end, I decided I would take dancing classes. I enquired three weeks ago but have prevaricated and made excuses about why I couldn't do it. Well last night I went and it wasn't as bad as I expected. I got out of the car talking to myself, saying "I can do this" over and over. After the initial shock of walking in to a room full of strangers, I was taken in hand and actually enjoyed my time there. At the end of the session I was taken by surprise that the time had flown by so quickly.

I was informed that these classes always suffer from a shortage of men, something that my W has been concerned about, so that helps a bit maybe?

[Telemark]

Before doing my nightly dishes, I got a TM from my W. It's been roughly 3 weeks since the "anniversary" text from her.

W: Just thought I'd tell you that I've been thinking of you. Hope things are going well.

I have half a mind not to reply at all. That would certainly be a 180 from me, pleaser that I was in the R. Not sure what I'll do yet. I'll sleep on it. Suggestions are welcome.

Wait for a day, then simply text back, "Thank you."

[westcoastfella]

25: Thank you so much for the feedback, it is always appreciated. The more that I learn about the details of your sitch, the more that I am inspired by all that you had to endure -- work, being a single mom for three, sub-zero temperatures, the time span of it all, etc. Now I am even more inspired by the impressive list of ways that you GAL-ed during that time.

I THINK that we LBSers used to think, before our "awakenings" or epiphanies, that somehow going to the dark place, kept the WAS there too...but it doesn't. It only makes US in a dark place. The WAS is off on their own having a good time or a bad time completely UNrelated to what we are doing or thinking or feeling. Believe it or not, this simple and sort of obvious realization is actually a big step for you when it sinks in. Let it sink in.

I also think that we do it because it's easy and it comes all too naturally. Who knows why that is? Either way...it is sinking in.

Aristotle said "Happiness is a virtue" b/c he knew it does not just "happen to the lucky ones"...it's a choice and it IS an active choice requiring action of some sort...kind of like how LOVING SOMEONE IS AN ACTIVE CHOICE - REQUIRING ACTION OF SOME SORT...every day...

If you practice this simple but challenging approach to life, you will be a happier man.

Isn't that a wonderful thing to KNOW??

It really, truly is. And it is a knowledge that becomes more apparent as I practice it, day by day.

Another problem is my work. Work is great and has allowed me to get out with my co-workers to go to dinner. However, I won't lie when I say that women outnumber men in my profession greatly. Any guys are usually in higher positions or work in the back offices.

I don't get it. What is the problem here?

I think perhaps I see it this way: most of the women there are older than me and have families, so they're already booked pretty solid. If they're my age, they're usually married or have boyfriends. Given how my W met OM, I'm rather paranoid at the notion of some girl having to tell her man, "He's just a friend..."

Still, I'll keep my eyes peeled for opportunities. I was recently able to go to a Vietnamese engagement party for one of my female co-workers...

Look at my GAL list and see that more than half cost me little OR NOTHING...and prioritize...what rainy day are you saving for?

I'm noticing that a lot of suggested GAL activities on this site are free or cost very little. Plus, my dad was promoted a few years ago and makes much more money than he used to, so now he's able to help us out when things are tight. Plus, Christmas is coming up, which usually means extra $$$...

I WILL WRITE MORE WHEN I CAN...

Thank you. Like I said before, whatever you write always proves to be a big help.

I am like you, not very keen on social situations and do not enjoy meeting people for the first time. I have been more able to do it when I had W with me, but now I have to stand on my own two feet.

I'm glad to hear that your dance class experience went well. I believe that overcoming my fears of socializing and doing things in front of people will be one of my big GAL goals. 25 mentioned acting, which I have never officially done. I have to admit, the thought of acting in front of a crowd makes me quail, but I have always been very interested in it and some people have told me that I would make a good actor.

Dance classes sound cool, too. I'm a horrible dancer and would love some formal instruction.

Wait for a day, then simply text back, "Thank you."

I took your advice as it was not too far from what I would have done anyway. "Polite yet distant" seems to be the mode that I'm comfortable with. As soon as I sent it this afternoon, she texted me back, which led to this exchange.

W: How are you?
WCF: Doing well. Keeping busy.
W: That's good. I'd like custody of [rabbit] over Christmas.
WCF: During Christmas or for good?
W: Friday through Monday when I'm home for Christmas. It's the 23rd through the 26th.
WCF: Okay, sounds good.

I remain wary. The rabbit has begun to exist as a tool for my W to manipulate in order to maintain control over me. I doubt much has changed in just a month. Fortunately, I will head to my hometown for the holidays, so I will be gone for most of that time. If I drop the rabbit off the night before she arrives, I probably won't have to see her at all.

Plus, I will probably be able to interact briefly with my in-laws when dropping him off. I would appreciate this, not only to see how they're doing but also to demonstrate that I'm still not some kind of lecherous beast. I often feel that my W has told them things about me that are not true in order to make her choices look better.

[westcoastfella]

More journaling!

Didn't have to work today because of Vet's Day. Woke up, jogged, did some strength exercises, showered, and ate a hearty breakfast.

Despite my social anxiety, I have been feeling a greater and greater need to be around and enjoy other people. Rather than sit home and write my daily NaNoWriMo quota, I packed up and headed down to Barnes and Noble to do it instead. It was full of people trying to get out of the rain. Walked around and looked at all the glorious books for a while, then sat down and finished my writing. Apart from some dumb kids causing trouble for the management, it was very fun. I then went to Starbucks, ordered a passion tea, and read my book for a while. It is a page-turner and a total joy for me to read, both as a reader and a writer.

Before heading home, I stopped at my local park for a long walk down a trail that heads around a pond and through the woods. There were only a few other people out there enjoying the trail, so it felt very private and spiritual. I felt very in tune with nature and the world. I could sense myself open up to the both the beauty and the chaos that life has to offer. When I think of my sitch, I often tend to think of more horrific things people have had to deal with, like the death of a loved one or surviving war-time atrocities. They too have had to make the choice to be happy and thrive despite all that they have gone through. These comparisons often put things back into perspective for me.

For some reason, it sprung up in my mind walking back to my car the multiple times that my W complained about the lack of "passion" in our M. She once discussed with me how we were high on commitment and companionship, but low on passion. I always equated this dip in passion with the natural ebb of an M (as mentioned in the "Marriage Map" in DR).

In a lot of ways, our M was, well...boring. Secure and based on a strong companionship, yes, but still boring. Sex was infrequent, and when we had it, it was enjoyable but pretty repetitious and not very exciting. Our idea of fun was going out to the movies every once in a while, watching our favorite shows on TV, and talking for a while before going to bed. I was okay with this boring way of life. It may not have been thrill-a-minute, but it was comfortable and fulfilling.

My W, however, was vocally uncomfortable with the lack of passion. My guess is that she had her A in order to get that passion: sex, excitement, validation, all of it. I often read that A's fall apart once that initial sense of passion and excitement melts away. I guess only time will tell on that one.

This is not to mean that there weren't things there that I did or didn't do to perhaps further influence her decision. I will still pinpoint and work on those things for myself, if anybody. I'm just saying that I believe that this passion deficit was the biggest problem for my W and the one that made her feel that she had to run away.

I believe that she could have worked harder on restoring passion in us rather than seeking it in somebody else. I saw almost no effort on her part when it came to that. But, given her traumatic history, I understand that her sense of conflict resolution when it comes to relationships is very scrambled. I am willing to forgive her completely one day. It is not there completely, but the forgiveness is coming.

[westcoastfella]

Had a crazy-busy day of work today, but it went by really quickly. One of the people supporting us was a girl that I met not too long before my sitch happened. I connected with her because her sitch echoes mine (although she only knows about the S and the eventual D, not the A).

Her husband left her and had an A, even though he denied it(his phone logs told a different story). About a month back, she told me that she had met someone new who treated her "a hundred times better" than her ex-husband, who she's in the process of D-ing. He has been trying to get her back to no avail. I admit, the times that I talk about this stuff with this girl, I have wondered if I will find myself in her shoes not too long from now.

After work, I made it to two different NaNoWriMo write-ins. One was at the library. I only made the tail-end of it because I was returning some movies I had checked out. Inside, I met up with a long-time friend of my W's who also does NaNo. It was good to hear from her because we always got along pretty well. It's a little awkward, especially since her family is close friends with my in-laws, so I'm pretty sure that she knows about the A. In any case, she was still very nice to me. I will likely run into her at several more write-ins.

I went to a second write-in at a Starbucks that went on into the evening. It was a lot of fun! I will admit that most of them were of a far nerdier stock than I am, but they were very welcoming and friendly people. This also marks the most social thing I've done besides hanging out with my family. I'm looking forward to carving out even more opportunities in the days to come. (I have two more write-ins that I'm planning on going to in the next week alone. Success!)

During my walk to my car, I reflected on my R with my W. As I've said before, my W felt very insecure about the "bad thoughts" that I had about other women in comparison to her, so she would often forbid me to talk to certain women who I found to be attractive, sometimes even pushing me to avoid these women entirely. This obviously curtailed my ability to socialize in college, which made me feel like I missed out on one of the most important parts of the college experience. She blamed her reactions entirely on me and my "choice" to not control my thoughts. I know that I definitely didn't help things, but I'm starting to see these reactions as very over-the-top on her part.

On a side-note, I chose earlier today to change my privacy status on FB to Friends Only -- which means my W can't view my status updates or photos. Given how hard she's been trying to keep tabs on my life in the past few months, I wouldn't put it past her to check my FB every once in a while. One more element of mystery for me. (Also, I will proudly state that I have not checked my W's FB for over a month. Go me.)

[2thepoint]

This is not to mean that there weren't things there that I did or didn't do to perhaps further influence her decision. I will still pinpoint and work on those things for myself, if anybody. I'm just saying that I believe that this passion deficit was the biggest problem for my W and the one that made her feel that she had to run away.

Seems to me that THIS is something worth exploring at a much deeper level. If your W is complaining about a lack of passion in her life, perhaps you should be trying to figure out what YOU need to do to getting that back. Time will tell if you will be allowed to explore this area with your W, but you certainly should be working on that for yourself since it appears to be a big part of why your W felt the need to go elsewhere.

I believe that she could have worked harder on restoring passion in us rather than seeking it in somebody else. I saw almost no effort on her part when it came to that.

Why if your W complains about the lack of passion in your life must she be the one to work harder? It sounds to me like it was a plea for help and it went unanswered. You know at some point someone needs to take the lead on resolving problems. If it wasn't going to be your W, then why not you?

Just asking...

[westcoastfella]

Seems to me that THIS is something worth exploring at a much deeper level. If your W is complaining about a lack of passion in her life, perhaps you should be trying to figure out what YOU need to do to getting that back. Time will tell if you will be allowed to explore this area with your W, but you certainly should be working on that for yourself since it appears to be a big part of why your W felt the need to go elsewhere.

I have actually been thinking about it over this long span of time, and I think that you're right in suggesting that I take a long look at this area of my M. Part of the reason, I feel, was my place as a "one-down" in the relationship. My W probably found it very hard to be attracted to what she saw as an "unmanly" guy. Being a "nice guy" tends to be very unattractive as other nice guys (and women!) on the board will attest.

I would sometimes try to initiate sex, which was unusual for me (in the past, her traumatic reactions dictated that SHE had to be the one to initiate anything), but it wouldn't always go so great and we wouldn't end up doing anything.

I have also often reflected a lot on the idea that I began watching porn a lot close to the start of my sitch. I used to be a big user early on and did not watch it for many years because my W felt very uncomfortable with the idea. She felt that I would have thoughts that compared her looks with those of the women in the videos (which, I must admit, probably would have happened).

However, she herself started reading erotic fiction online to get in touch with her sensual side. When I asked her if she had a problem if I started watching porn again given that she was doing something similar, she said that she didn't care. (I took it as a good sign at the time -- like now she trusted me -- but it probably meant that she was just that further out the door.)

I felt at the time that my watching porn was harmless fun, but I have found several websites that state that using porn regularly can lead to problems with ED, enjoying sex with a partner, and social anxiety. It may have also made my W feel that she "wasn't enough" for me -- that I turned to something else instead of her.

During my time here, I have made an active effort to remove porn from my life. It has helped a great deal so far. (For anybody else interested in this subject, the website "Your Brain on Porn" has been my main source of info. A LOT of men who stop using porn claim a lot of great benefits.)

Why if your W complains about the lack of passion in your life must she be the one to work harder? It sounds to me like it was a plea for help and it went unanswered. You know at some point someone needs to take the lead on resolving problems. If it wasn't going to be your W, then why not you?

Hmmm...I guess I see both sides on this issue. True, I could have done more to iron out our problems, and I'm working on improving myself in such ways now. And MWD herself does talk about being the one to spearhead the problems in a M, if no one else.

Still, I guess that I resent the theme that my W presented over and over again during our R: that Iwas the problem, that I was the one who needed to change to make things better, that everything would be great if only I changed. (And I definitely feel that an A was not the appropriate response to our problems.)

I'm not saying I was perfect or that I couldn't improve. I just feel that if she really felt so desperate in our M, she could have made some efforts as well. It seemed like all she did was complain about how I wasn't doing enough or wasn't doing things right. She never once suggested couples' therapy, never once picked up any self-help literature...just complained about my efforts. I often felt like a chicken running around without a head: trying desperately to fix EVERYTHING but finding myself to be failing just the same.

*shrugs* I guess this is a thorny issue for me. I'm still very resentful of how she handled things. But it's good to keep mindful of my part in our downfall. In fact, I've heard a lot about "The 5 Love Languages" and I feel that my W's may have been Words of Affirmation (especially about her looks) and Physical Touch, while I mostly provided Acts of Service and Receiving Gifts.

[2thepoint]

Still, I guess that I resent the theme that my W presented over and over again during our R: that I was the problem, that I was the one who needed to change to make things better, that everything would be great if only I changed. (And I definitely feel that an A was not the appropriate response to our problems.)

I get the resentment but someone has to take the lead and if not your W, then why not you? During Sundays church service, the pastor said something that I wrote down and I think it applies to you current mindset.

"If you don't take the first step, you cannot take the second step."

If you can't get past the fact that your W won't make the first move, then you should. And once you have taken that first step, it becomes easier to take the second step. And once you take the second step, perhaps it becomes easier for your W to take her first step. See how that works?

*shrugs* I guess this is a thorny issue for me. I'm still very resentful of how she handled things. But it's good to keep mindful of my part in our downfall.

Yes, you must remain mindful of "your role" in the downfall of your relationship. And once you take full ownership of "your part" and truly begin to address "your behavior" and then make it a permanent part of who you are, perhaps your W will be willing to make the changes she needs to make.

I'm not trying to be judgmental here, but the porn addiction really needs to be addressed. You have said that when you stop, things seem to improve. But, you stopped before then picked up the habit again. So who's to say that that won't happen again. And, isn't it possible that your W sees this as a major problem and doesn't trust that it wont resurface again, and again, and again? And since the lack of passion is a major problem as your W sees it, don't you see how the porn addiction gets in the way? See, this is something that I think you really should focus on.

Have you considered counseling? Seriously, you may have more of an addiction than you realize and counseling will help you understand why this addiction plays such a role in your life and can help you manage it.

I'm wishing you all the best.

[westcoastfella]

If you can't get past the fact that your W won't make the first move, then you should. And once you have taken that first step, it becomes easier to take the second step. And once you take the second step, perhaps it becomes easier for your W to take her first step. See how that works?

I suppose that's true. MWD covered a big section in DR about both people in the M not taking the first step because neither one thinks that they should have to be the one to do it. I'll have to revisit that part of the book.

I'm not trying to be judgmental here, but the porn addiction really needs to be addressed. You have said that when you stop, things seem to improve. But, you stopped before then picked up the habit again. So who's to say that that won't happen again. And, isn't it possible that your W sees this as a major problem and doesn't trust that it wont resurface again, and again, and again? And since the lack of passion is a major problem as your W sees it, don't you see how the porn addiction gets in the way? See, this is something that I think you really should focus on.

Have you considered counseling? Seriously, you may have more of an addiction than you realize and counseling will help you understand why this addiction plays such a role in your life and can help you manage it.

I would love to go to counseling, but unfortunately, I just can't afford it right now. However, I think that I'm definitely on the track to recovery. Like I said before, I didn't use to think that there was any problem with watching porn, but now that I know that it can cause major problems, especially when it comes to sex and relationships, I have sworn off of it. I do not picture myself back-tracking on this issue. But thanks for the suggestion, I appreciate it.