untethering

[aeolianchaos]

Hey Finah,

I will probably let the L's deal with most of it. At this point I want to just break it as cleanly as possible and with as much of my integrity in tact as I can.

I'm working on my assertiveness mindset, as it is easy for me to 'care' for her at the expense of my own benefit.

I'm familiar with 80/20 - never seen it applied to this board, though. That is a very interesting way to frame it..

I'm not too worried about if life hits her hard or not at this point. I feel good about the work I've been doing and the work I will continue to be doing.

I am skeptical that things are as clean and tidy as she keeps insisting they are. It doesn't seem too likely that is the case, and I do see a possible future point where the cracks in that foundation affect her even more.

At this point - creating my own life in a way that fits who I am means much more to me than trying to figure out if she is or isn't telling herself stories.

I'd feel good about being understood clearly about who I am and why I'm showing up in that way.. but if that doesn't happen, it doesn't take anything away from me.

[aeolianchaos]

Just to be clear, 25: I don't take offense at what you've posted and I think that there is some merit to your perspective.

I also know after reading many (thousands?) of your posts that you are quite sincere in your intentions and that you wish for people to do better in their lives. I am appreciative of that and find those qualities admirable.

I feel like my response to you may have been perceived as strongly worded and I want to make sure you know that it strikes a nerve that has nothing to do with you. While I don't feel that I am being blindly defensive or dismissing the notion of my failings or problems, I am committed to also seeing what I did that was positive and contributed to the parts of the marriage that were going right (I believe this is a part of SFBT - identify what is going right).

I have plenty of work to do..and I don't want to dismiss that or suggest that I am done with my work.

[Finah]

I am skeptical that things are as clean and tidy as she keeps insisting they are.

Yup.......it's all the same my WW does it.......they all do it.

Reminds of those people in scary movies where they just sit there and say "this isn't happening, this isn't happening"

At this point - creating my own life in a way that fits who I am means much more to me than trying to figure out if she is or isn't telling herself stories.

Pretty much all you can do at this stage.


As for your job thing.......I know where you are coming from.

I have had 4 or 5 jobs in less than 4 years.......not good.


Mostly due to my WW.


One I was working too much......told me to quit.

One I wasn't working enough........told me to quit.

Then I was full time house Dad.....she liked that...

Then that wasn't good.......find a job

I find a job......I like it there, working @ corporate for a major clothing line......steady hours, no OT, laid back environment.

Then she didn't like my hours.......I was going to change my hours.......nope didn't like that


Finally I just gave up b/c I started noticing a pattern.....lol

Sometimes you just can't win.

[25yearsmlc]

Just to be clear, 25: I don't take offense at what you've posted and I think that there is some merit to your perspective.

I also know after reading many (thousands?) of your posts that you are quite sincere in your intentions and that you wish for people to do better in their lives. I am appreciative of that and find those qualities admirable.

I feel like my response to you may have been perceived as strongly worded and I want to make sure you know that it strikes a nerve that has nothing to do with you. While I don't feel that I am being blindly defensive or dismissing the notion of my failings or problems, I am committed to also seeing what I did that was positive and contributed to the parts of the marriage that were going right (I believe this is a part of SFBT - identify what is going right).

I have plenty of work to do..and I don't want to dismiss that or suggest that I am done with my work.

As a L and writer, I like to think I use words with some precision. I'm also direct.

I thought you responded to what I actually said well. Then you added your concerns about what I might have meant, and that's fine as long as you distinguish between the two, and don't hold me responsible for your fears...

and I think you were able to distinguish between them well. I knew which you were referring to.

Your arguments are not insane or meritless, but you also concede how she might see it differently. That sounds like a good position to approach this from; i.e., knowing you DO have something to say, but so does she.

And I've been a working professional and a sahm. I was an Army officer married to one, and then when I got out, to accomodate H's obligation to the military, which I did not have, I became what is referred to as a "dependent wife."

(that's actually the term, like it's from 1887). Humbling, yes. I was treated VERY differently by the "public" when I was out of uniform and that was a shocker.

But I've yanked up roots and done the fun part of moving while h merely showed up at his new job. His work IS relentlessly oppressive in its' way, and he is the hardest working man I know, literally. So there's that.

But that doesn't mean I was on my butt eating bon bons wondering when the paycheck was coming home. And once outside the military, I usually worked. So I've done both. Stayed at home 7 years with our last child and It counts.

But fair or not, it IS seen in a different light for men. You're "supposed" to be the hunter gatherers who come back to the cave with something for the woman and child to eat while she keeps the cave warm and the child safe...

SAH Dads, (which I realize you were not- and that "worsens" this for you)

are an entity I personally have only seen work a handful of times.

4 of the 5 of those were w/female doctor's w/kids, and the only way the moms felt comfortable working was if their spouse was home. The other guy was an artist who followed his diplomat wife around the world. Actually that was cool and they are very happy.

The man has to be uber secure and that requires some sort of outward "success" and though you often werent' both of those things financially and emotionally, you are not blaming her for that. That's important, or you'll be in this sitch again.

I do know one other = a musician who really had talent and got work wherever they were and they moved as she was a military doctor (paying back for her med school like my h) uprooting every 1-3 years...

So I get it. You were only defensive in areas you identified as your sensitive spots.

BTW, as a L, when I got involved in divorce cases, (which I avoided at all costs but still had to sometimes)...

I found I got blamed A LOT for client's choices. That's not bad for the client; it's good for them. I agree that you should let the L's do the dirty work'; that's why you pay them.

Keep the wall between you and your L and she and hers. Let THEM duke it out as if it's almost out of your hands..."silly wacky L's"....

In short, it can't hurt to let her associate offensive or irritating legalities with the lawyer, and not you.

Yes it cost more money in the short run, but it saves a lot of grief, imo. It increases the possibility of a reconciliation in general, And it MAY arguably save you money in the long run b/c of the relative clarity you'll have, as opposed to the

"we did it ourselves" approach, which I have seen work exactly ONE TIME...(no kids and a short m)

Good luck

[rickb89]

Finah - that 80/20 comment of yours really helped me deal with my WAW and her EA. She's losing 80%!

_________________

M - 24 yrs
me - 53, W - 45
3 sons - 24,21,13
bomb - March 2011
discovered EA - April 2011

[MrBond]

"I don't really want to create a future with the person she is choosing to be. It is way too far from whatever idealized notion of her that I have clung to."

Isn't your W only 29 years old and you two married when she was only 20? I wouldn't say she's "choosing" this life. She is actually growing by doing something that she never did before. She's testing out her independence and individuality.

Aside from the LBS building themselves up, DB does another important thing. It allows you to see what your WAS is thinking. The principles can be applied to all relationships in general. As important as GALing is, many forget that understanding and being sympathetic toward how they are feeling is equally important.

[aeolianchaos]

Mr. Bond,

She is only 29, and we married when she was 25. If she isn't choosing it, who is? I think she is choosing to be the person she is being and I have doubts as to how much she recognizes that choice.

What defines growth? I think you could just as easily frame her behavior as a form of regression.

I will not argue the notion that perhaps she is availing herself of some independence and individuality. Although I am quite skeptical that this is the case. Frankly, none of us can know what her motives are.

These days, I'm a little less empathic about it.. and I suspect for me, being less empathic may be a return to equanimity.

I don't see how DB allows me to see what my WAS is thinking. I think it may put out some potential ideas or hypotheses about her perspective but I think for me to mind-read her based on a WAS archetype would be almost insulting to her. It reduces her to the pile of cliches that many WAS employ. I assume that she has her own motives and her own story she is telling herself and while it may manifest in similar ways as so many on here(ILYBINILWY for example) I think that I need to give her more credit as an individual.

Maybe I am misreading what you are saying..

I do aim to be compassionate towards her, but I think compassion does not mean that I persist in my belief that she wants to be the person that I believe she does deep down. Perhaps compassion is accepting that her choice is based on what she believes will make her happy and perhaps that kind of decision runs completely counter to what I think is necessary for creating a meaningful life. This is possible, isn't it?

[MrBond]

Yes this is her choice. The point is that she's 29 now, you've been going out since she was 20, and maybe she feels she missed out on something. Happens all the time. It's not a form of regression. Many times people hit a point where they feel that they weren't able to grow personally because they felt tethered to another person for so long. It may not be in your case, but it happens.

In terms of the compassion issue. Think about when you first date someone. How do you act around them? You usually hinge on everything they say. You encourage them. Laugh at their jokes, etc. In a sense, you try to understand them. You try to understand their POV. However, after being together for awhile, that willingness to understand goes away. That's why so many people fall for A's. If people continued to treat their spouse the way they did while they were dating, it would eliminate alot of problems.

In any case, understanding her POV will only help you whether you remain in this relationship or not. When you find yourself putting yourself in your W's shoes, you'll be able to know how to interact with her better. It's how the trust can be re-established. It's happened time and time again. But many people don't have the patience to do it.

DBing teaches that when you do the 180 - changing behaviors that push the spouse away. That comes from understanding their POV.

[aeolianchaos]

SAH Dads, (which I realize you were not- and that "worsens" this for you)
are an entity I personally have only seen work a handful of times.

I think I understand where you are coming from on this angle, and I see the merit to it. While I don't know if it was a 'deal breaker' for her, I think its something that I would probably do differently (for myself) in the future.

Keep the wall between you and your L and she and hers. Let THEM duke it out as if it's almost out of your hands..."silly wacky L's"....In short, it can't hurt to let her associate offensive or irritating legalities with the lawyer, and not you.

Well, our D will likely be quite simple relative to most. We have essentially already divided property up, and it is largely a matter of negotiating the remaining financial details. Even those may end being a few e-mails back and forth between lawyers. All in all, the money we are talking about is not much..

Sometimes you just can't win.

And sometimes, victory isn't what you think it is.

GM - I'm adding it to my queue.

That's why so many people fall for A's. If people continued to treat their spouse the way they did while they were dating, it would eliminate alot of problems.

I think it is the nature of long term committed relationships that this doesn't happen.. at least not in the same light that it used to while dating.

DBing teaches that when you do the 180 - changing behaviors that push the spouse away. That comes from understanding their POV.

I am not so sure that we can really understand their POV so much as the complaints that they have 'owned.'

I think there is another layer to it, where we have to consider that many of the resentments and grievances they hold on to they may not even be willing to own up to in the presence of their spouse. At least in my case, this seems to be a big part of it.

Maybe not in other R's - I do think the length of the R makes a difference in how effective some of these changes might be.

[MrBond]

"I think it is the nature of long term committed relationships that this doesn't happen."

It happens because we get lazy in relationships. Once people understand that, it can go back to that point. I've seen it happen many times.