I believe the point was of possible hypocrisy. In so much that, despite how much want our OP to be different than...an OP...an emotional affair, a physical affair. It's not. It's still an affair. And our justifications...are no different in the end, than our spouses.
Are their differences...yeah...but the one that stung me the most?
We aren't the ones in an MLC....we did/do this with eyes wide open. We don't have the excuse that mommy and daddy didn't love us enough...just our crazy spouse at the time.
That is coming from inside my glass house TAMF. Not throwing stones at you or anyone else.
Experience is a brutal teacher, but you learn. My God, do you learn. - C.S. Lewis
Life is usually all about how you handle Plan B. - Jack3Beans
Listen without defending; Speak without offending - FaithinAK
From what I have read recently, and what you have put out there to read...
You spend a lot of time justifying why you "deserve" or "don't deserve " this or that...
What he is and isn't capable of...
You appear very unapproachable to him right now.
I'm sure his options are very diminished. And he comes to you , remembering all of the begging and pleading you did to him at the beginning of his crisis...
And there you stand now, with your mind changed (for whatever reason ).
Cold , Hard , and Unforgiving toward him.
THAT is your soapbox...
THAT is your judgement of what you feel he is or isn't capable of....
Just remember that his words and actions do not match the same as your words and actions do not match right now either....
As a mod: I believe the point was of possible hypocrisy. In so much that, despite how much want our OP to be different than...an OP...an emotional affair, a physical affair. It's not. It's still an affair. And our justifications...are no different in the end, than our spouses.
Are their differences...yeah...but the one that stung me the most?
We aren't the ones in an MLC....we did/do this with eyes wide open. We don't have the excuse that mommy and daddy didn't love us enough...just our crazy spouse at the time.
That is coming from inside my glass house TAMF. Not throwing stones at you or anyone else.
So just to clarify, my M is over, dead. And I am not saying that has anything to do with getting a divorce. a piece of paper doesn't mean a M is dead. It took me a long time to realize that things would never be the same. If there is to be a Mr. & Mrs. TAMF then it would be a totally new relationship.
That being said, and the fact that he physically lives with the OW - They have started a life together -I am not married anymore. I am not having an EA because I am no longer married in my heart and mind (btw, I am not having an EA anyway because it is over).
Once the paperwork is filed and the state of Wisconsin says I am no longer married does that make it ok for me to see other people? I don't get it. There are TONS of people on these boards that are in serious loving relationships with other people and they are still in the divorce process. "waiting for the paperwork".
Suddenly I am just as bad as he is and a hypocrite. only with my eyes wide open so therefore I am worse than he is.
TAMF m:41 xh:41 T: 20 M: 15 D: 16 D: 14 Bomb dropped: 7/3/10 separated: 7/15/10 H moved in to new apt. with OW: 7/1/11 divorced: 8/26/12
So just to clarify, my M is over, dead. And I am not saying that has anything to do with getting a divorce. a piece of paper doesn't mean a M is dead. It took me a long time to realize that things would never be the same. If there is to be a Mr. & Mrs. TAMF then it would be a totally new relationship.
I agree. Couldn't agree more. What is at stake here are your feelings and your future relationship, isn't it? I can't think why you would go back to the M you had.
Is it ok for you to see other people? That is your choice and it is neither good nor bad to make it if you ask me. Your life is your life and your choices are your choices.
I don't think you are a hypocrite and the thought never crossed my mind. So I, too am sorry you felt this way at the words written. They were not intended to convey that thought at all.
I do however, think that you may not be done with the H. Divorce or not. Pain or not. I suspect that there is a part of you that is struggling. Wondering why you have to go through this introspection now...
I was trying to point out both sides, but certainly not blame nor pass judgement.
I recognized retaliation in your posts. I recognized anger. I see those things in myself and I see them in your posts. By pointing out the various sides, I wanted to try and help...frame things in an objective manner. Perhaps that is not what you need, but it seemed like it at the time. Maybe that will come later.
I honestly think that your anger is justified. I think it is your honest emotion and H should see that. I do NOT think that holding back is the right way to do things.
A little secret? I personally prefer to hear the truth vs. being lied to. I abhor being lied to by anyone. Pain from the truth is preferred to not feeling the pain and being lied to. You can feel those things even if we sometimes choose to ignore that we are being lied to, right?
In the end, your decision is your decision and you are the one that has to live with that decision. The same one you didn't ask for. Still is what is...
Be at peace that regardless of what you do, it will be right for you.
AJ
"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter" MLK Put the glass down... "Yesterday I was clever so I wanted to change the world Today I am wise, so I am changing myself."
From my perspective, H is not as done as he'd like to be, but that doesn't excuse his behavior and relationships. I see no shame in your game regardless of which direction you go and I can guess at the difficulty this must present.
AJ
"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter" MLK Put the glass down... "Yesterday I was clever so I wanted to change the world Today I am wise, so I am changing myself."
Here's the thing. These people care about you. And so, they are doing what they feel they need to do in order for you to have no regrets. They are trying to help you look at all sides, so that you can make decisions that are in your best interest.
And since you are so honest, I think they feel they should be totally honest with you.
It doesnt really matter what others are doing. What matters is you.
And we just want to be sure that you move forward on this journey in the most whole, healthy way.
Because if you dont do the rest of the work, you run the risk of some really big heartache down the road.
Tamf, I know most of these people personally. They have some of the biggest hearts I have ever seen.
They really do want what's best for you. And they will do whatever they have to do to get you there.
That really is the purpose here - to help and listen and challenge each other.
Sometimes its tough. But, the results are usually worth it.
One of the things that I see happen sometimes here is people develop a sense of superiority (for lack of a better word), because they are DBing, they are healing, and their spouses are not. Because they are not making the same hurtful mistakes that their spouses are. Because they are making conscious choices instead of acting on pure emotion.
We are not superior, just in a completely different place than they are.
If and when they come around, they have a lot of catching up to do. That is when it becomes up to us to decide if we are going to be there while they do that and see what happens once the process is completed.
Jack did that. He gave his W that opportunity. He will be the first to tell you that that is the time when the true work begins.
I did it. The first time my STBX came around. Unfortunately, his MLC wasn't complete and neither of us did ALL of the work necessary to make things stick.
This time, I ended up chosing not to do it. Chosing not to be there. I tried. I tried until my heart was so shattered that sometimes I think I am still missing a few pieces...
While I was putting it back together, as I was picking up the pieces, they held my answers. They were different, changed. They still held the love for my STBX that will always be there. They didn't hold the desire to repair the M anymore. They didn't hold the commitment to him and the M. Instead, they held acceptance of his choices. They held my strength and my commitment to myself.
As Beatrice said, it wasn't an "administrative" decision. It wasn't a decision at all. It just was. Then the decisions came after that.
I am truly sorry that Jack's post upset you. I remember when he said those very words to me. I remembered it when I read the post. And I very clearly remember my response. It was "yes, technically, I am having an affair." There was no offense taken, no sting if you will. It was a simple statement to the fact that I was still legally married. Two years later, I am still legally married. Sometimes that end of it takes a long time.
Two years later, I am in a wonderful relationship. With an LBS, a DBer. It is the best and hardest (in some ways) relationship I have ever had in my life (friendship or otherwise).
It isn't a secret. It isn't all over the boards either. Not because of board rules. I didn't meet a DBer, I met a person, who happens to DB.
It isn't on the boards because it does happen, not tons like you implied, but it does happen, and it usually doesn't work for very long. Because of the relationship dynamics. Because of people's vulnerability when they meet. Because people aren't ready yet. Because it isn't easy.
TAM,
Several of yesterdays posts seem to hold some sting for you. Those are the things that need to be looked at. Not picking on you, honest, we all have things that cause us sting. We all have things that we can work on, change, improve, or at least examine.
Your choices, have to be for you. They can't be driven by a sense of superiority over your H, a sense of selfrighteousness of what you deserve, a desire to be loved, anger and frustration over the situation as it is right now. Or the good feelings that come from someone giving you the attention that you crave.
Do you deserve to be loved?
Yes, we all do.
And when the time is right, it will happen.
If it isn't your H, you won't call the person OP, regardless of the legal status of your M. You won't get upset is someone questions the validity of the R. It will just be.
Just like if the time comes for you to D, you won't have all of the anger that you hold right now. You will probably have a sense of sadness, but the anger, should be gone.
Time is your friend if you allow it to be. There is no need to rush anything. None of us can know for certain what lies on the road ahead...
"Acceptance doesn't mean resignation. It means understanding that something is what it is and there's got to be a way through it."--Michael J. Fox
Once the paperwork is filed and the state of Wisconsin says I am no longer married does that make it ok for me to see other people? I don't get it. There are TONS of people on these boards that are in serious loving relationships with other people and they are still in the divorce process. "waiting for the paperwork".
Those people, the ones that are in serious, loving relationships, probably weren't sincerely returning their spouses "I love you"s just 3 weeks ago. They don't use words like "until" or "maybe". They've made conscious choices that no longer involve anger and entitlement.
TAMF,
No one here is judging you. I know it feels that way, LORD do I know that it feels that way, but it just isn't so. That glass house Jack speaks of it ... we all know I lived there too. So I'm not throwing any stones either. But I will tell you that experience does give one some perspective and that wonderful 20/20 hindsight.
Don't just want truth when it's easy to swallow. Push yourself to see past the initial sting and dig in for you ...
Here's the thing ... hate, resentment, anger ... those feelings are not the opposite of love....
Holding onto anger to punish someone else, is like lighting yourself on fire to get smoke in their eyes ~ 25yearsmlc
