Got an apology from XH. Need advice now.

[tadpole1025]

Wow Antonia. Sounds like you and MHL have had one hell of a week. I really don't have any advice because I am a noob compared to you guys, but I'm wondering if you and MHL had a spouse that spewed hate the way mine did. Mine told me she has been miserable for years. I'm just wondering if you had that because now you are getting an apology.

Tad

[AntoniaB]

And IB, I thought about what you said when I wrote this as far as keeping myself moving forward. Sure I'd like for him to get his head right. But honestly? He's really far from that. Does this response communicate GALing with leaving the door open to communication on some level if he chooses?

[AntoniaB]

Tad he was AWFUL in the first 3-4 months. Just awful. That's why I was in therapy so long. He beat my self-esteem down really far. By about month 8 or 9, he admitted in person that he had said a lot of things he couldn't remember but knew it was all hate-filled, and that it was because he wanted out of the marriage because he wasn't in love anymore (but was with OW) and didn't have the guts to end it. He said "I wanted you to end it so I tried to get you to hate me, but you wouldn't end it and you wouldn't hate me." So we're at over a year now, and yeah, this is the best apology I've gotten so far, but he still doesn't admit the affair itself is a mistake. He just admits his METHOD was wrong. He has said before in person that he should have ended things before he met the OW. He still believes she is his soul-mate. He's not even close to being out of the tunnel...

[AntoniaB]

Sorry all, I posted my potential reply and then clogged up my own thread with posts. Please go back a page to read my reply to give me feedback--@2182418.

[~ kd ~]

A, I'm not sure it was really an apology.

You should know your ex best... to me... it really did sound self serving, almost martyr like...

At best, I might say, "Thanks for the kind words." as an acknowledgment and that's about it...

but that's just me...

More to the point... do you believe he actually is expecting a response to those words?

Anyhow... just thoughts...

[beatrice]

Hi, good posts! And lots to think about. I agree with MHL that 'thank you' isn't quite right. 'I appreciate what you wrote' is probably better, as it doesn't categorize what your xh wrote.

Your response is good if he were not in MLC. As it is, it gives too much information about you. At this point he isn't really interested in you, as a person [or OW for that matter] I have come to see that it truly is a crisis and it is about survival. They aren't in good shape and they are hanging in there.

Is it an apology? Of sorts. He cannot at this stage admit that the affair with OW was a bad idea. He is at the stage of seeing how he went about it wasn't great. The point at which they can see that the affair [not even the outcome of the affair, which may go wrong] but the affair itself, was a bad idea, their world comes crashing down around their ears. because at that point they have to really face what they have done, and what they have damaged and probably lost.

I also agree that they feel second class. My xh is at the stage of giving me bits of information and sending articles he has written, and so on, a bit like a cat bringing you a dead mouse [or even live one, shudder]. He still cannot emotionally connect with me - I think this is truly the final stage.

This is what I would call an early stage apology. He wants you, imo to go on talking to him, being there for him, and showing you are OK. And up to a point, this is OK. GAG also has it right, we should not become a fixture. Reliable in that we are consistent and non threatening, but not always available on demand.

Respond, as you think fit, briefly as all agree, and then leave it. Wait to see what he does next. It is his journey. The way I feel is that i want my xh to 'recover' and mend, because I loved him and a bit of me still does. We aren't doing this for ourselves, so much as helping them along. Not fixing them or enabling them but genuinely holding out a helping hand along the way, the way you would to any dear friend who has gotten themselves into a terrible mess. You are not judging him, or luring him back, but being a friend in need.

Like I said, you rock girl. The Antonia who was could not have handled this, let alone the way you are doing.

[25yearsmlc]

Oh and also--note that I got this when I was cordial or even kind to him and showed I moved on with my life. That seems to be what triggered this VERY off-topic response from him in which he sort of "defended" that his personal life is good while his work life isn't, and of course, I never brought up his personal life, AND he suddenly sticks in there "you can take back this meaningful stuff."

MHL's thread had these 4 levels of remorse. Where do you see him at?

am sorry I got caught.

I am sorry I caused you pain.

I am sorry I caused you pain and I feel bad about it.

I am sorry I caused you pain and I understand why you are hurt.

I'm thinking he's at 2 or MAYBE 3. So that should also affect my response.

But in general, I guess I'd like to know what to respond and why his response is SO off topic, where the heck did this come from just out of the blue?

my .02 is that for sure #2. Also yes to #3 although maybe you "triggered" the #3 with your sympathy towards him,

which he's right about--(ie not deserving of it. But you gave it anyhow.)

I would not mention the items he discussed if they are all gifts from you.
Not "mutual stuff" that got unfairly divided...

Let him keep them and pay for storage...until OW is secure enough for him to bring them home, or he has the guts to toss them?? Interesting he still has them...

Are there things you DO want that he got? (Like a new flat screen, some IRAs Savings and a house??? )

I didn't find it self serving unless you consider him Not wanting to look like a selfpitying whiny ass, to be self serving.

I count it as a positive - he is actually aware of the fact that he was an ass and he's mortified at some level. Thank God.

Your behavior towards him contrasts so sharply w/his towards you in the past AND now -as he whines to you of all people...
that it serves to highlight his idiocy quite well. So he made a move towards "non idiocy"...yay

I think his personal life is so great that...he is sharing his woes with...you...ohhkaay...

I'm not saying he deserves applause for sending you this, but heck- it sure is an improvement.

[25yearsmlc]

beatrice

well said, well said. And Antonia, in case you don't know this, well DONE!

I admire you both so much.

[AntoniaB]

My mom is really upset over this and especially over my not wanting to be snide or snarky back to him. She blurted out "look, if you want to forgive him you can, but I don't have to. I had to watch what he did to you two times."

I said, "I realize it was tough for you, but I was the one who LIVED it, and I'm telling you that holding on to feeling anger towards him or the feeling of "it's not fair what he did to me" is keeping me VERY stuck in the past. She said "if you don't want to hold a grudge, fine, but I can hold one if I want."

Sheesh.

I replied just now. I said "apology accepted" and then the line about how things happen for a reason and I'm happy with the person I'm becoming. It makes ME feel good to say that I can see that side of this, that silver lining, out of such darkness. So I said that. Then I actually just walked away from it and said that I was sorry to hear his friend was unseated as principal and to hear who was in charge, and then acknowledged that he probably would have a very tough year. Then I said "you know, if it gets really bad, you could always ask for a transfer, or acknowledge that your time to teach on this earth has run its course, quit, and become a deckhand on a fishing boat now that you are right at the bay. It might be the most liberating thing you could ever do for your mind." I ended with have a nice day.

I'll explain the last part. For years, his one dream unrealized was to work on a boat. To do something with his hands. He used to read a lot of books about explorers or fishermen (and he does fish) and he LOVED stuff like The Deadliest Catch.

We were so enmeshed and I was so afraid I'd lose him or his security of the teacher pay, I guess, that I never encouraged this dream. I encouraged the side of him that played by the rules and stayed in a place he wasn't happy/fulfilled.

So I flipped the script again and said what was in my heart, look, you don't have to stay where you aren't happy. Do something else. You're living at the beach now; it's easier than ever.

Bottom line? The OW is not any different than I was in terms of keeping him in a box. It's a different box, but it's a still a box. AND, he's keeping himself in one too.

I'm in a very different place from him. Sure I have terrible pain and still feel at times it isn't fair. But I woudn't have this confidence or self-reliance and love for myself if he'd stuck around me in his MLC state any longer than he did.

I am better off without him when he's in this terrible state, which he may be for the rest of his life. So I'm just going to wave from my happy place.

[AntoniaB]

He replied immediately. I think it sounds like he believes he is totally off the hook.

"That's great. I truly wish you the best and I will always speak positively about you whenever anyone asks.

I am still working on things but I am certainly more independent than I ever have been. Now I need to work on self-realized.

Work is work and that is all I am considering it this year. I need to focus on things outside of school for any sense of satisfaction because there is littlle chance of that happening at my job.

Have an enjoyable and productive sabbatical."

So, what do you think of this? The "I will always speak positively about you" thing he has said numerous times, which is crazy because I didn't do anything to HIM, but he always said it in the context of "please don't say anything bad about me because I don't say anything bad about you."

He admits he has issues yet. He admits he's looking for the relationship to make him happy because he "can't" or "won't" find happiness in his job AND he isn't "self-realized" either.

You know every bone in my body says "email back "look, I still think you're a cruel and sadistic and self-serving bastard, but I'm just choosing not to dwell on that."

But you all think I should just say nothing, right? Let my last email be my last word?