25 and Punkin first off thank you so much for replying.
My legal status is the same, S but D in the works now for over 2 years. Trying to get financial things settled etc. I'm not alright financially because I'm still paying all of the bills due to the fact of this not being settled. H dropped me from his benefits in Jan. so I had to pick mine up here at work and I use to get paid for not taking them. Well, since he did that they made him start paying spousal support.....no where near what I was getting from employer. I receive the child and spousal through a check. They take it right from H's pay and mail it to the county and then I receive it through them.
So my lawyer was willing to schedule at meeting to go over this stuff and I asked if I had to be there because I didn't want to have to deal with H if he was going to be mean, plus I don't want to cry in front of him. He knew I didn't want this D. Anyway, my lawyer said no, that I didn't have to be there and he would meet with H's lawyer by themselves or if H wanted to be there that would be fine also but I didn't have to go. So my L wrote to his L and told her that he is willing to meet with just her or her and H but I wouldn't be available. H must have through a fit, because now if I don't go when it is scheduled he is going after 1/2 of my retirement, and I have more than he does because he just changed jobs a few years back and I've been at my job for 16 years. My L said it doesn't make sense to him at all.....he never in his whole career saw a person like H that got filled up at every hearing (child, spousal, visitation etc. hearings and meetings), and I almost fell off the chair when he said someone is influencing H to do this because it is very obvious to him that he doesn't know what he wants.....and at the last hearing me and H talked and he invited me over and actually had a good time. That was on Dec. 15th and continued here and there until the end of Jan. He did tell me that he got caught by his mother, because she saw my car there so she didn't stop.
And why would he want me at a meeting if it is not necessary? None of this makes sense, and that at a bazaar my S20's friend said H kept watching and looking to see where I was....going out of his way to watch me and I just preteneded he wasn't even there. S20 said "Mom, I know that he still cares and loves you, you can just tell." And also when D14 walked out of the bazaar H was seen crying his eyes out. WTH?
I've been trying since the separation to get males involved in the kids life but no success. I have two brothers but they claim they don't have the time. I did think about contacting Big Brothers for the both of them.
I told her not to contact H's family anymore, and explained why etc. and she is fine with it. I asked her the same question and she told me that she saw the way all of us get treated by H and he hurt all of us again at the end of Jan. and she wanted to include all of us because it would be selfish to only worry about herself. I told her, she is a child and doesn't need to worry about me or her brother and that is my job to take care of everyone. But she said she is tired of her brother being treated the way he is...God Bless Her. Oh, and by the way she only wrote 2 letters to H. One in April and all it said was that she wanted him to please come to her Confirmation and that she loved and missed him, and didn't want him to miss anything big in her life ever. The counselor helped her write that, then the second time was just around a month or so saying the same thing, she loved and missed him and would he please call or write and could they stop fighting. I wasn't mentioned and either was S20.
I think she shouldn't send a pic to BIL since he shouldn't be in the middle of this mess. The reason I'm saying this 25 is they probably wouldn't even give it to H. That's the way they are, they are so mean. Our D14 had pics up on her wall that she took from the house to put on her bedroom wall at H's and they actually cut out all of my faces on them so now the pics are ruined. I told her to please not take any with me in them and she did behind my back. I asked why when she came home one weekend and she said so I will always be with her. Well, the SIL did this....really grown up of her. See so there is no way H would hear of anything if she did send something happy to their house, SIL would make sure it would never be seen by H.
So now what?
I don't say a word, only on here and with a couple close friends about how H is with his sons a real lot. I don't want my children hurting anymore than they already are....the problem is that H doesn't live more than 2 miles away so D14 and S20's friends see it then tell them or like a couple of weeks ago D14 walked into a little diner with her friends and he was at the bar drinking and never acknowledge her at all...so I got the call of her crying etc. He drank his beer she said ordered another one and chugged it and then slammed the mug on the bar and stormed out. She was so embarrassed she said in front of her friends. Her and her friends go there a lot and H was never there. So a few weeks later H is crying (or an act) over D14 then when there is none of his family around he ignores her and gets angry. UGH! So there has been NO contact or response with D14 or any of us.
He said he was tired of paying bills, wanted to go on vacations more, and wanted to have money in his pockets. That was the first reason he gave me but he waited until he left. What happened was he stopped taking his AD's and I had NO clue....thought he was stressed from work. He was getting snappy with me and the kids (not like him at all)and started drinking here and there saying he had a bad day at work. Then it was like a switch went off and he started a BIG fight in front of the kids, grabbed my wrists screaming I hate you....it was awful. So our D14 got scared and called 911 because she said she was afraid of him hurting me and she never saw him like that. So they told him to leave, and he did. I found out the following day when his step mother called me screaming that she was mad because her and my FIL should have been called not the cops. God forbid....H's father was a cop, so she didn't want anyone to know their business. I told her I was sorry but one of the kids called and they probably weren't even thinking straight. So I found H's prescription bottle and I called the pharmacy to see if he had it refilled or did I need to come pick it up and they said he had not had it refilled. I looked at the bottle and he was 3 1/2 weeks behind in taking it. I got all kinds of reasons why he wanted out since then but then he would call and want to talk and see me. None of his reasons really made sense. Although when he mentioned about coming home he told me what his needs were that I wasn't providing for him and I told him that I was sorry and he was right. And he was....I didn't tell him I loved him as much as I should have, and wasn't strict enough on the kids, and also of course love making. I agreed he was right. The next day after when me and H were suppose to talk about taking things slow and about his lease and stuff I get a text right after the mean message from SIL saying D will not be put on hold, house is to be sold, it's over. I was like wth? To this day I have NO clue what changed his mind (I'm sure outside influences), but he couldn't even call and explain just a text and nothing since. I also told him all of this in a letter 2 years ago, that I was sorry for my part in the separation.
My H graduated HS but failed once and was also in learning support classes. His income is great now compared to mine. He lost his job due to the fact of the factory closing down, and he wanted to try to drive truck. He learned quick on that part but he had failed 2 times on the written part and that was after me helping him study for months. Anyway, we kept working at it and he finally passed. He would always tell everyone, if it was for W I would have never passed and wouldn't be making better money now than I was before, she stood by me and helped me so much. I still remember word for word. His real father has money, as for his real mom no, she doesn't have money at all.
H's real mother's side (which I had no clue until after I married H), does not acknowledge any children that are not blood related. That's why when I sent that message back to BIL or SIL who ever wrote it I put....how would you feel? They were all raised by step parents and the step parents treated them like gold, not like trash like they do to my son. Saying he's not related. So that is why when we got M they threw a fit about H wanting to adopt him (it is forbidden in their family, mother's side). Not only that but I also learned very quickly that they treat grandchildren etc like this that are girls. Boys are the best and girls are bad news. MIL once made H's niece wet her pants from the way she treated her. I was there and saw it with my own eyes. My heart broke for her, but the grandson was treated like gold. Also, one of his brother's is engaged and his girlfriend has a 4 year old little boy, so I know it's not just my son. And D14 said whenever the girlfriend isn't around the MIL and SIL pick on this poor little boy and treat him like garbage and as soon as they leave they talk about the girlfriend. Hopefully now maybe you can see why I said the things I said in my letter although not DBusting at all. I wasn't just sticking up for me and my children but deep down for all of the girls, and future step children that might come into their lives.
Yes, my son is disabled but it is learning problems and stuff like that....they are working with him so he can live on his own. It wasn't stressful at all for H being a parent when they were younger as far as I could ever tell. He was great.
H and D14 did everything together. They went swimming, played ball, bowling, they were together all of the time. If he went to the store he would take her along. They were very close, she was his Baby Girl as he would say.
How do I hold him accountable for his actions as a father? What do I do or say? There is NO contact.
I understand what you are saying 25 about WAS still being involved after they leave with the kids. But after Feb. when H finally contacted D14 after not coming home (he was drinking), and called and asked what her problem was and why wasn't she calling him and/or texting him and was very angry, so she told him that she held how she felt about everything in for 2 years and that she needed to let him know that she was mad and hurt because he lied (she felt) about him coming home and that he hurt all of us all over again. He got very angry cursed at her, told her she was just like me and she said for him to please stop yelling and he said a few choice words as she was crying her eyes out and said for him to just leave her alone and to stop yelling. So now he tells everyone that she doesn't want to see him since she told him to leave her alone. If I did that I would never see her...lol. Hormones everything going on. I do know that her counselor told her for over 2 years now that she had to let him know how she really felt inside but she was always afraid he would get mad at her and she was right. But the counselor told her that she needed to tell him and to stop taking it out on me.
So this is his reason I'm hearing around that he doesn't contact D14. Because she told him to leave her alone.
Don't prevent what 25? If you are talking about H and D's relationship I would never do that, as a matter of fact I wish someone could give me advice on how they can get it back. But I do know D14 will not go over SIL's anymore because of the way she was getting treated while she was there before and one time H even said to her, I'm going over Aunt xxxx do you want me to take you home? D14 said no I'll go because then I won't be able to see you or spend time with you. So another words, my poor D14 had to go there or he was just going to drop her off like nothing. He could have taken her somewhere and did something with her but all he thinks about is drinking according to D14.
You are right I don't want the kids to feel the rejection, but how do I get at least D14's relationship back with her father. H's real father and sister haven't spoken in over 22 years because of the father leaving their mother for another woman and to this day, there is such bitterness. The SIL has actually wished death on the FIL right in front of everyone. I don't want my D14 to ever go through that in her life, and I want her to love her father not like SIL. I also pray that H will contact S20 some day.
I know you probably think I'm crazy but I still love him and want to save our M. I pray all the time, because I have no control over anything and can't even DBust because of no contact.
Any suggestions on how to get the reconnection going? And how long do I wait for the kids to contact him with some good news? One thing and only one thing that was said from on here was that H comes from a crazy background and may be reverting to it. People change and evolve and he can, again. I'm holding on to that, I don't want to give up and want to be a family again some day.
Punkin, what did you mean by quilt being a major part in this play? Who feels quilty? Sorry, I'm confused. And thank you so much for the hugs to me and my children and right back at you.
25, I hope I answered all of your questions. I can't thank you and Punkin enough for your advice....but like you just read I could use some more so I can at least get D14 and H's relationship back together.
Sorry, but you can't. I know of NO fixes beyond basic encouragement when the occasion arises, IF & when it does.
If they are girl haters, then I say good riddance. Your h's failure to see this is sad and pathetic and to that I also say, good riddance.
Who needs this pain?
When my h was gone, our d1 was 16 and said "I guess he doesn't want to be a part of my life..." I argued about h's confusion but she replied "I don't think he's confused. I think he's selfish"....
and later, "If he doesn't want to be part of my life, I'm not that interested in being in his."
GF, my h WAS SELFISH and maybe confused. He hurt her deeply and that has been my most challenging piece to forgive. By far.
At some level h knew this or something like it.
At Retrovaille in '08, we made some breakthroughs.
Then We were doing an exercise for describing emotions and fears using a metaphor.
The last morning he blurted out, in tears, (a RARE event for him) that he felt as if he was
a "well dressed man at the scene of a car wreck and he was the driver. The money was all gone. And All the passengers were injured and on life support and no one knew if they'd live."
This is when I realized that he had "gotten" it. But it's a rare event.
I suggested, AFTER WE RECONCILED
that he take d1 (now 22) to dinner one on one, at least monthly. He jumped at the suggestion and has visited her and calls her often. They are rebuilding.
Will it ever be the same? Doubtful. But it's better.
And she can heal. There will probably be a scar, but it won't be a sucking chest wound,
which is what your d and son have now.
My hope is that you bandage their wounds, stop the bleeding and protect them from further injuries. First, stop the pursuit of an r with him asap.
It only leads to rejection. If h wants a R with either child, he knows how to contact them. Period.
Accept that they won't have a decent R anytime soon with their dad. Son may never. Daughter may never.
H could die. Would they ever heal? Yes. How? By still having one parent they can count on for love/support
and that's more than many.
Create joyful, happy funny times together with or without h...
b/c you have No (healthy) choice.
Your only option is to be miserable and you know that's not alright.
Do I think you should file?
I think you should protect yourself legally & financially.
And merely b/c your h SAYS he'll come after your retirement if you don't show up, means nothing to me.
Meaningless words...who says he won't come after it anyhow?
And Who says he'll get it?
Your son has special needs I'd play UP (for legal purposes & obvoiusly without telling son), and your h makes more than you do...
what's your L say?
Also, I didn't get what you meant when you said your h "gets all filled up"
at the L meetings.
As for his family and their seemingly irrational hatred of you
Even if you are leaving out CHUNKS of information about what you did to incur such wrath
(not saying you are, but they are pretty damn odd if you did NOTHING bad in their eyes, til he left you...)
But regardless
their behavior is pretty over the top AND their response to your d's letter is too.
As I said, I do not go to dry wells twice, if I need water. You'll always be thirsty.
His family will never be a loving source of approval for your children. So don't seek it out.
It is what it is.
I have a brother whom I can imagine would bring up his latest real estate coup, within minutes of me telling him I had cancer ( if I did, which I don't.)
Last month when I had surgery and a biopsy for such a thing, I told ONLY my siblings/friends who could offer support. And I got it. Sometimes we don't get the support we clearly ask for, and we must soothe ourselves. This is an important life skill, a tool for happiness. Learn it, and then teach it to your children.
You are far too invested in what your h's family thinks of you to teach them this yet. So you need to address that within.
Long ago I realized my father's angry alcoholism had affected our family and that there were many who were in so much pain they could not be there for me at that time. This is not a reflection on ME.
Later in life, turns out we are generally all close to each other. Even the selfish brother means well in his own insecure way.
But my point is that I learned not to take their "rejection" personally. They are only so capable. Half the time it's not rejection but their own failure at support.
In theory, someone may even want to support you but doesn't know how. They never saw it in their lives so they don't know what it looks or feels like. That Doesn't change the fact that THEY are dry wells so you still cannot go there for your "water needs". Make sense?
Real life example...
Years ago my cousin's h was terminally ill and they had 5 children under the age of 12. They were in their late 20s, living in Australia, and her h was a lawyer. My aunt, (the cousin's mother), came out "to help" her d cope with the sick h and small kids.
But aunt has always been a self absorbed superficial woman who doesn't do well with long term problems. She wasn't a great mother either. Perhaps if my cousin's h died faster, she'd have been better.
But after a month or so, my aunt chose to leave her daughter with her sick h and five kids, to live with her other daughter, (a doctor married to a doctor and living in a small mansion.)
Nice, huh?
I asked my cousin how she felt when her own mother turned her down the in her darkest hour.
She said "TBH, we were better off without her 'help'". And she's right. (But talk about a PMA!!)
Her h died. Then a parish priest pressured/helped her go to law school herself.
She later became a champion for women's rights, and then she became a Governor. I'm serious. A freaking Governor of a territory. WTH??
Her kids & grandkids are grown up now, and they are all close to each other. They support each other well. Not so much their grandmother but they are close to THEMSELVES...they soothed themselves. She taught them how.
(Oh btw, the doctor/doctor family had 3 kids.
One is a hippie rebel whom they ignore, one is learning disabled living in a group home, whom they don't mention
and one is an MD, who they brag about. She tried to take her life 5 years ago...she is the "success story.")
The cousin who was "abandoned" did much better than the one who got the "support". Self support...a learned skill.
Your h is responsible for his actions.
His decision to stop taking ADs and to
continue Not taking them in the face of such a downward spiral, is HIS decision.
HIs family will never give you what you need. Therefore-
Help your kids see that "losing" contact with His family
is no loss at all....
It's a gain. A gain of peace and
a loss of crazy, negativity
I say, Embrace it!
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
Unfortunately, it's not uncommon for a MLCer to neglect their children. You can't fix this for him or you kids. I know how much this hurts your heart. At some point you may see him try to reconnect with the children. All you can do is pray that he does, and that your children are receptive to it. In the mean time, continue to be their rock
Can I ask what your H should be taking medication for?
I meant HIS guilt. His feeling guilty is why he lashes out one minute and avoids the kids the next. Passive/Aggressive type. Normal, I think, for MLC. While I ache for you and your D's pain, I think I hurt the most for your son. He, like my D's, feel abandoned by the only person they ever considered Dad.
Regardless of what he says or does, he knows he is at fault where the kids are concerned, and the guilt is overwhelming. I once made my X a shirt that said, upside down on his chest so he could look down and read it, IT'S NOT MY FAULT. White shirt, red letters. That was 9 years ago. These days, I'd have to have the letters lower down on his overhang. LOL
You have had great posts - I agree completely with all 25 years and others said. What goes around comes around eventually.
My xh did so much damage to his kids. Six years on they are trying to rebuild relationships but my xh is still in MLC, and while a whole lot less mean than before, he still has no real clue either of how much damage he inflicted or how to put it right. I do not think he can face going there. However my kids are OK - all adult now and in secure loving relationships with nice people.
You cannot rebuild this relationship. The only thing you can do is facilitate any attempts that your h makes to reach out [if he does at some point], and try in some way to keep your d's expectations low. Otherwise they [like we used to] see a glimmer of the 'old' person, and think it is all going to be OK.
Some MLCers manage to remain in a relatively good r with their kids, but so many just ignore them most of the time, and rage at them when they do have contact, at least in the early and middle stages.
My xh recently did something so shocking to his middle son that I am still reeling from it. But my son is a strong person, who knows he is loved, and sadly he is now used to this awful behaviour.
We ache for our kids, find it hard to forgive our spouses for what they do to them. The only 'defence' is to love them unconditionally, and know that our example matters more than we realise, down the line.
Accept that h's family is not capable of being a source of any support to you or the kids, for now & the forseeable future.
See this as a net gain. It is reality.
They are biased against females, so your d would Not benefit from having that message in her life.
They are biased against your son b/c he's not blood related. So he benefits by not having that rejection in his face either.
They are cruel, miserable people.
Embrace this so called "loss".
Protect your children from further self inflicted pain, by Not encouraging them to reach out.
If your h (or his family) wants back into their lives
HE can take steps to make that happen. IT is the ONLY WAY and
YOU must accept that You have NO control over this OR their relationships.
Tell yourself the Serenity prayer at least once a day.
Analyze and Explain how filing for a LS or divorce,
could HELP/ Hurt your FINANCIAL situation...
(leaving aside, for a moment, other emotional issues or "giving up", etc) What steps does your L say you should take, to protect your interests and the kids?
I urge you to Avoid being a woman who lets her fears of angering her wayward spouse (and "losing" someone who is already out the door) prevent her from getting what her children are entitled to. They come first.
Not our fear or our pride or our ego. THE KIDS... Now, as for DBing... ask yourself if any of your prior approaches w/ your h
have yielded any lasting positive results.
IF NOT...then what would a 180 be for you? What are your 180s?
What are your GAL things?
AND finally, here is the KEY question you have to be able to answer AND
your h would have to know too.... How would marriage to YOU today, be better/different than before?
IF YOU have Not done the work on YOU, then what is the point of all this?
I only ask b/c it's KEY AND
b/c I only see you posting reactions to what HE has done to you and the kids.
There's no discussion of what your personal work or growth is, just a lot of victimhood and pain.
God knows he has hurt you and his kids. I get that. But this is a solution based approach to solving serious marriage problems.... So let's focus on what you can control and work on....YOU.
List some 180s and GAL that YOU are doing to improve YOUR life and the kids.
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
Thank you so much everyone for your input. Okay I get that some MLCers don't have much of a R with their children. What I don't get is why just our children. He spends a real lot of time with his sons that he had in a high school R.
25, I don't have to file anything H did file for D over 2 years ago. The meeting has to do with trying to settle financial issues. What I meant by all filled up is H is ready and has already cried at every hearing for child support, visitation, etc. This is why even my L is stunned at why when he (L) answered H's L and told her that he would meet with her and H or just her and that I wouldn't be present that H got upset and angry and said he wants me there. For what???? Anyway, when they have it I will be present.
I'm not pursuing H at all. And yes, you are right if H wants a R with the kids he knows their number and knows where they live. I can't help the kids reconcile with their father and I realized that now since the mean message my D14 got from SIL or H's BIL.
SA, you are so right and that's exactly what I have been doing is praying and praying for some sort of R between my children and H. H was taking medication for Depression, they said it's an anger depression over 14 years ago. I also think when H's real father told him that his real mother tried to abort him 6 months prior to H's flipping out didn't help much at all. I know for a fact it is true, MIL told me 15 years ago....but why would a father ever hurt their own child no matter what age by telling them such a horrible thing. I never would tell my worst enemy that and FIL acted like it was no big deal. H didn't want to talk about it so I never brought it up. And now though to think he is up his mother's butt even confuses me more now that he knows about her trying to do this.
Punkin, if he feels so guilty and knows it's his fault why doesn't he try to fix his R with D or SS? So I take it you did not reconcile with your XH? The shirt is funny. Did he ever realize what he had done to the kids and you?
Thanks Beatrice. Why such rage at the children though? Thought they blame us for their issues not the kids. You are so right, I ache for my kids so much. But I'm going to take all of the advice I got here from the all of you great and wonderful people and just try and get the kids through this one day at a time.
25, I forgot to answer your question...sorry. H's family blames me for keeping H away when he told them off all those years ago when he heard SIL and MIL talking about my son and H adopting him. I mentioned a few times to H that he should make amends because a person never knows what will happen tomorrow but he kept saying no way. He said he was tired of how mean they were just not to my S but to everyone. It is really weird though because I remember the last time I brought it up to him about making amends I told him my only fear would be is that they would try to blame me for him not talking to them and would destroy or try to destroy our M. H said that I had nothing to worry about because it's never going to happen (him reconciling with MIL and SIL). Now look....lol.
I have accepted that I have NO control over any of our R's (mine or kids with H) and have put it in God's hands.
As far as DBing with H there were a few things that I did that seemed to last until H's family would hear or us being together etc. and I'm assuming having a fit. H even said it one time when MIL was going to H's place and saw my car there so she left and when she called she was screaming at H. With my H I was the one that (most of the time), contact him about certain things and we would be getting along which is a 180 for me because H was always the one that pursued me while dating and even during our M. But now that it has gotten to this point, no phone number or anything for him I wouldn't know what to do so I guess I have to remain NC. It was always like H loved me to make the contact since this began because he was always the one pursuing me and I think he liked it, but that was 6 months ago. On that part am I right by remaining NC?
I'm finally GAL, it took a real long time, I was on and still am ADs but wow for them to find one that would at least help a little was a horrible experience. I was so sick and very depressed for many months almost over a year. But now I'm doing okay. Still don't feel great, lonely etc. But I'm going out with new friends and enjoying my time out. It's coming home that kills me, because yes I'm very lonely and never have been alone until lovely MLC hit my family.
As far as how our M would be today compared to how it was I would make sure that I told H that I loved him more often, and take the time to meet more of his needs. H told me in Jan when he wanted to come home a few things that I did wrong and I never realized it meant so much to him. So I did apologize and told him that I will show him how much I love him and need him and that I always did and if he didn't know that, I was truly sorry. It was the best conversation we have ever had since the S.
I have been working on myself so much, I did take H for granted. We both admitted that during the conversation. One thing that this MLC has brought to me a good thing is that I really believe I'm a better person and much closer to God.
So to sum it up, I guess my best bet is to stay NC and for kids also and just go on with life hoping and praying that all of us will be okay and get through this, and enjoy life more. For now I need to learn to take one day at a time instead of worrying about everything. I really believe with H's family being out of our picture is going to make it easier on me and the kids. Actually I know it.
Thanks again everyone...great support. Have a great day!
it didn't work before, it aggravated things AND you got hurt/rejected
AND
you need to keep GAL...if you pursue him, that's NOT GAL...what would contacting him accomplish?
What would you say? More of the guilting?
Not Effective.
Hang in there...let him have all the independence he wants.
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
