I've been reading the board for a few months now. I've also read DR, as well as many of the other books that have been recommended on the forums - 5LL's, Sex Starved Marriage, His Needs/Her Needs, etc.
I've been in awe of so many posters on this board and how they've handled their situations with dignity and grace and how they've grown as people. I decided it was time for me to tell my story because I'm really struggling with how to handle things from this point on and I want to be a better person, not only for me but my kids.
Honestly, I'm not sure my marital issues are the usual, and hopefully fixable dysfunctional ways of dealing with problems/conflict, etc, or some unchangeable character issues that are contributing to my H's constant bomb drops.
In the past, I always believed that I was fighting for our family and now I have to wonder if I'm just co-dependent.
I'm 42, my H is 41. Two kids. D16, S7 We've lived together for 18 years. Married 9 years. Together 22 years.
My H's behaviour with regard to our relationship has often been one of confusion and withdrawal. He broke up with me constantly during our first 4 years of dating. I'd get the usual ILYBINILWU, or I was the wrong person for him, or we simply weren't compatible. During the first 5-6 break-ups, I did the usual - crying, begging, trying to convince him to try counseling, urging him to read relationship books. Somewhere along the way, I figured out that wasn't working. I discovered that when I went NC, he would come after only a few weeks, begging for my forgiveness.
When I got pregnant 4 years into our relationship, he stepped up and started acting more maturely and I thought those confusing times were behind us. We moved in together and he was a devoted father and husband.
Fast forward 5 years. We went through the usual adjustment to parenting, in-law issues, money issues, etc. Not everything was handled well by either of us. H withdraws when he's upset and sulks, I get angry and I usually pursue but somewhere along the lines I started retreating out frustration. It was around this time that I had an EA (that he never found out about) and things started to deterioate further, probably because now both of us were withdrawing and no one was working on the relationship. I ended the EA after a couple months. However, I'm sure the damage was done as I believe my H felt my distance during this time.
A year later, my H was again drinking too much and becoming distant, and I was bombed again. I got the ILYBINILWY speech and his usual, "you're the wrong person for me" speech as well. This time since the stakes were higher (a young child and me a SAHM). I completely fell apart - crying, not being able to get out of bed for days. My H moved in with his Dad and his Dad's second W.
Finally after a couple weeks, I pulled myself together and started IC with a MC. During this time, H was blaming me for all our issues because he said I was the wrong person for him and I had anger issues. My IC who was pro-marriage helped me to realize that all of our issues were not all my fault and encouraged me to stop pursuing H but not to give up. I backed off and H moved back after 3 weeks, only to move out again about a month later. After he came home for the second time, I knew based on his behaviour - distancing himself, drinking too much, withdrawing, and leaving a partially packed suitcase in a closet, that he was planning on leaving for a third time. So I packed his suitcases while he was at work and told him if he wanted to live with his Dad, he was free to do so. He quickly tried to back-peddle and claimed he wasn't trying to move out. Finally, after 6 months of being separated, I agreed that my H could come home if we went to MC. My H later told me his told him that what helped him with his decision is that his Dad confessed that he had regretted that his first marriage ended in divorce (sadly years later, his Dad's 2nd marriage also ended in divorce).
My H assured me he was committed to us again, we continued MC and 6 months after his return, we started planning our wedding. A month before the wedding, we had a fight about something trivial and my H screamed that I was the wrong person for him, and that he didn't love me enough to marry me. I was stunned but the next day, I gave him a list of phone numbers and told him if he wanted to cancel the wedding, I wouldn't stop him but I wasn't going to help him either. He apologized 3 days later and said his comments were made out of anger but needless to say I was conflicted.
I went ahead with the wedding despite my lingering doubts due to his pre-wedding bomb drop.
A year after the wedding, we had a second child (S7) and I dealt with severe PPD. H was not completely supportive but I still felt connected to him. Unfortunately, the next blow was that his mother was diagnosed with terminal cancer. Then in-law issues ensued and my H was again not supportive. Resentment started to build and disconnection followed. I tried many times to express my concerns. I talked. I wrote letters. I cried. I pouted and screamed (obviously not my best choices). Nothing seemed to get through to him. In hindsight, even though he acted like he was handling it all, I think the stress was overwhelming.
I went back to school during this time and am currently doing what I've always wanted to do. I think my career and my children became my main focus. I don't believe it was a conscious decision but it happened gradually over the years. Then H's mother died and our disconnection grew. We were struggling emotionally. Our daughter was diagnosed with an eating disorder and severe depression due to the loss of her Grandmother. It was by far the worst year of our marriage.
Last summer, out of desperation, I bought a book on contemplating divorce. I hid it well...or so I thought. H found it but didn't mention it to me until we had a fight and then he let me have it. He screamed that I should just go and get myself a boyfriend because I never had sex with him anyway and if I wanted a divorce, I could have one. We finally talked calmly about it the following day and I assured him that after reading the book, I did not want a divorce.
Things were still uncomfortable between us and H stopped telling me he loved me even after I asked to hear it more often. (He hasn't said it in a year and a half.) During this time, when I had thoughts of leaving, I would think about how I still loved my H and my family and I would push those thoughts out of my mind. Besides, I knew our D16 could not handle another loss in her life.
I got the bomb again in April of this year during a fight. He told me to F off and go F myself and that he was done. It wasn't pretty. When he calmed down he said the usual, "We're just not compatible, we have nothing in common". I'm so numb to the bomb, I didn't bother begging or pleading this time around. I've learned that doesn't work anyway. Less than two weeks after that bomb, H seemed to be changing his mind once again. He told me he was having trouble sleeping and his heart kept racing. Then he started hugging and kissing me everyday. We cuddled and watched TV together in the evenings. We did things as a family again.
I found this site and made it my mission to avoid R talks and did my best to DB. H found my 5LL's book in my nightstand and wanted to borrow it. (He's currently reading His Needs/Her Needs.) He engaged me in a few short R talks over the past couple months but they seemed to go well. He apologized for his part in the break-down of the marriage. I assured him there were many things I would have done differently if I could go back in time. Things seemed to be going well. Then he started distancing himself again (I was prepared for this after doing so much reading on the DB forums).
A couple weeks ago, I started to suspect I was going to get bombed again when H seemed to be sleeping more and going to bed early to avoid me. I began to detach. I think I've reached the point where I'm not longer sure if this is an issue that can be fixed. He's been back and forth so many times. It seems like whenever our marriage hits a rough spot, H bails. Even when he doesn't actually leave, his words leave me feeling abandoned and alone.
Admittedly, I can see that I have bailed on him over the years in various ways such as putting more time/energy into my career than my relationship. I think in some respects I gave up emotionally but didn't physically leave, even though I had considered it many times. I have also been less interested in sex because I don't feel connected to my H. He admitted this hurt him immensely and he felt abandoned. He said if we had been having more sex and doing things together, this wouldn't have happened but it has. Then in the next breath, he claims that it doesn't matter because we're incompatible. A lot of what he says (far too much to go into in one post) seems to contradict.
So I got what he claims is the FINAL bomb last night. He said even though he's only thought about leaving for the last few months, this time he's 100% sure. We're not going to make each other happy. We're not compatible. He admits he's read the books, and even though he's realized that he hasn't always been the best H, the damage is done. He feels I rejected him sexually for too long and we're just not compatible. He keeps harping on that point so I believe this is his main issue.
He has no concrete plans at the moment and can't say when he's moving out, or when we should tell the kids. He seems to be winging it as usual. I've been here post bomb drop before. Far too many times.
Anyway, I'd like to DB for me, for my kids because I'm not sure I should even want him back at this point. He even admitted this would keep happening so the writing is pretty much on the wall. I told him I didn't want him as he was anyway. That his flakiness wasn't attractive to me. He also said that I don't respect him. I agreed that I didn't, to which he replied that if he looks at all his behaviour over the years that he looks and feels like an idiot. Maybe I am the wrong person for him and it took him this long and two kids to figure it out.
I don't want this stich to break me and make me bitter. Right now though, I'm feeling hurt, rejected, angry, used, ugly and my self-esteem is about nil and very numb. I haven't cried but I'm sure that's coming. I know that I need to GAL. I did see a lawyer in April during the prior bomb drop and financially I'll be fine so that's one thing down. Not sure what's next or if there should even be a next?
I think I will journal while I'm still on moderation...
First of all, I really wish there was an EDIT button because my first post is a babbling mess. (I guess that's what happens when you type up your life story at 4am.) Hopefully, you all can make sense of the gobbledygook above.
Anyway, apparently my H being 100% done this time for sure only lasted until the next morning...
He took one look at me and started crying. He asked if I would be willing to listen to some of his issues and concerns after our children were in bed.
We spoke for a couple hours that night. It was one of the most open and honest R talks we've had in years.
He said that he had really thought about a lot about something I had said the night before...
That even though I loved him and would prefer to stay married, that I realized over the years that I had lost respect for him because for me to feel safe and connected, that I needed a man who showed more emotional strength.
He said that his behaviour was embarrassing if he really took a step back and looked at it, and that constantly threatening to divorce me when we fought or disagreed was not the way to handle his frustrations. He said he now understands why I don't feel safe with him. That he was so caught up in his own hurt, that he didn't see mine. I told him that I had done this as well and I apologized.
He also admitted that he's not good at dealing with hurt or anger...and that he's beginning to believe that perhaps he's not emotionally mature and that he really wants to work on that issue.
Then he asked if I would listen to a list he had written about what bothered him about me and our relationship. I said yes...
I listened without defending or interrupting. Some of it was hard to hear.
After he was done, I told him if I could go back I would do things differently. That I understood why he was so angry when I lost interest in him sexually and why that made him feel so rejected and unloved. He again said he understood why I didn't feel connected to him.
We agreed it was a vicious cycle and that neither of us felt truly loved or connected, and that we both reacted badly at times. We just had a different way of dealing with our feelings.
He asked me to come up with a list expressing my concerns and issues. I said I would have one ready next week when he returned from a camping trip with our S.
This is the quickest recovery from the bomb drop yet.
I admit I'm afraid to trust this completely...but maybe that's been part of our problem.
I'm feeling conflicted about making a list of my issues with H (he requested it). If we are supposed to concentrate on our own issues...
He told me the night he dropped the last bomb (6 days ago) that he didn't like or respect me. I asked why...and he replied that I was beautiful, smart, a good mother, kept myself and the house looking nice, and that he admired how successful I've been in my career in such a short period of time. Then what is it that he doesn't like or respect about me? He said he wasn't exactly sure.
His complaints seem to be - not enough sex, not enough in common (aside from our kids), not compatible, he likes to socialize and drink more than I do. He thinks that I don't like or respect him.
This is why I'm feeling conflicted about this list. Does it really matter at this point?
Believe none of what they say and half of what they do?
Endeavour, self- marriage counseling is like self-dentistry, impossible! You are at a good point for intervention, you are both conflicted, but it doesn't look like either of you is involved in another relationship yet. My advice to you is to get help. My marriage was really saved by the Retrouvaille program. You can get info on the program and when it is offered on their website, www.hepourmarriage.org.
We had tried MC before to no real effect. Each of us had stated our points of view trying to convince either the therapist or each other that we were right. And we spent a lot of money to have minimal results. But when we tried a Retrouvaille weekend as a last resort, it changed our lives! In just one weekend. It is very different from counseling and the best part is that they teach you and your husband to communicate with each other, not a 3rd party. So in the end, you learn how to continue to get along, not just get past this one hump.
Here's a link to a thread on Retrouvaille. http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1597090#Post1597090. It was started a long time ago, and hasn't had any action in a while. But you can get some info there. The most important thing is to get the Retrouvaille website, find a weekend near you and ask your husband to go with you. You will never regret it.
Thank you so much for the link, Lotus. I recall seeing Retrouvaille mentioned on this board before as I've been reading the forums a lot since April. It is something I would absolutely be willing to consider...
However, I seriously doubt I could convince my H to go because the program seems to be faith based. He's very anti-religion and scoffs at anything connected to religion. Sigh.
We have tried MC in the past and he usually quits, claims it isn't working or we no longer need it, and then things fall apart again. He doesn't follow the advice given to him by our MC's anyway...
A friend said it sounds like he's having a MLC. If that the case, the man has been having one on and off for 20 years.
As for the possibility of another relationship, I've snooped a lot and haven't found a single shred of evidence. Bad DB'ing I know, but I won't live in an open marriage. Or try to reconcile one with another P involved. If my H is having an affair, that poor W is not getting a lot of his time because he's always here. He works out of our home and when he's withdrawing, he avoids me by going to be early or spending all his time with our S. I did ask (not that I expected I would actually get the truth) and he sighed. He said he can't even deal with this R, nevermind even think about starting another one anytime soon.
Anyway, I agree with you - we clearly can't handle this sitch on our own.
Yes, he's asked for the list. And thankfully, you have time to think about what you might put in the list.
Perhaps... consider making the list more from an I and situational perspective. That way, he won't see it as blaming... and might be more empathetic...
IOW:
+ When we are together, I feel disconnected + When you are drinking, I feel unloved + When you go to sleep early, I feel abandoned + When you are raging, I feel scared + When you say we are incompatible, I feel confused
Kaffee, I think that's a great way to approach my "list". I've been reading the board for months, and your advice is consistently good, so thank you for taking the time to respond.
A little journaling -- H returned from camping with S7 a day early because S missed his mommy. So sweet. I told H I was going to weed the garden and he offered to help (this is unusual). Later, H said he wasn't feeling well so he went to lie down at 7pm. He texted me to say he wasn't avoiding me (hmmmm....) He never got up and slept until the next morning. He didn't ask about my list so I guess I've bought myself another day...
Anyway, H was pleasant this morning, gave me a long hug and offered to run out and grab me a special coffee. I'm going to take the kids to a movie today and do some errands.
NP, E... I like to see people do well in their sitch...
Yes, pick up on the "unusual" behaviour... be careful and do not point at it... watch if it is consistent...
When they OFFER help... certainly accept it... even the LBS can cake eat...
And him not bringing up the list... could be standard WAS behaviour... a lot of talk and then no action... broken promises... things of that nature...
still, if you are going to do the list, do it... he MIGHT actually expect it... one day... and it might help you sort through some of your feelings and point out how you can 180...
