So, my wife of 8 years gave me the "I love you but I'm not in love with you" talk about 2.5 weeks ago. Despite having been through counseling a couple of times over the course of our marriage, it totally took me by surprise, because every day--right up until the bomb was dropped--our marriage has been filled with affection and love...and really really great sex. We have the type of relationship that other people tell us they envy. We're best friends, and always are affectionate with each other. Always holding hands. Always go to bed in each other's arms. My wife told me that all of that was "real", it's just that she's needed other things as signs of my love for her (I recently read The 5 Love Languages and we could have served as an example in that book) that she hasn't been getting. She needed more quality time for just "us" and needed me to take charge of making that happen. I have to admit, one of my major failings has been taking her for granted...I essentially stopped courting her once we got married. My other major failing has been clamming up and withdrawing when I'm upset or angry about something instead of communicating with her. She told me that was something that wounded her to the core. She felt like she tried and tried to get through to me that she needed to be loved in a way that was different from what I was showing, and that now it's too late...even if I could change, which she says she doubts anyway, it wouldn't change her mind. She says she's been so unhappy for so long, and that while she knows she contributed to it by hiding it (she says she knows one of her issues is that she "stuffs" her negative feelings deep down to avoid conflict), the end result is that she's adamant about wanting a divorce. She's not interested in any counseling together unless it's goal is to help us break it to the kids. When she dropped the bomb, I took some time to think on my own and then came to her and told her I thought divorce was the wrong decision, but that I understood why she felt the way she did. I honestly saw myself in a new light, and can understand why she feels so hopeless...BUT...I also know that people evolve, and I've already gone into counseling on my own to begin making some changes for me. In the meantime, we're still living together, still taking care of our kids together (5 and 8 years), and, ironically, still getting along like the best friends we are. We talk in the mornings before work, at night we lie together on the couch watching tv/movies, and most nights we still go to bed with her arms wrapped around me or holding hands (no sex, no kissing, and no saying "I love you" though). I've recently done some 180's, getting a life (which was apparently a big issue I was unaware of), doing things on my own and with my own friends, and my wife has taken notice. She told me it really makes her happy and feel good to see me doing things on my own, outside of "us." However, the few times I've backslid and discussed explicitly our relationship, she says she still wants a divorce. So I guess I'm wondering, as part of the LRT, should I be stopping all the good stuff we still have? I feel like I should be doing my best to dispense with the "bad" and keep the "good"...but some of the "good" seems like it would be pursuit behavior. Should I be discouraging the affection she shows me? She still wants to put her arms around me in bed, or watch tv snuggled up against me...but part of me feels like I should be giving her a taste of what it will be like to miss the things that she still values in the relationship. The other things is, for me, some of my 180's are definitely pursuit-type things. For example, one of my wife's main complaints is that she can't remember the last time I made a date night for us and handled all the details. So a week after she dropped the bomb, I told her I was going to start doing all the things I should have been doing all along and that she was free to accept or decline as she saw fit. One of the things I did was make dinner reservations for the end of this month and take care of getting a sitter, and told her, again, that if she wanted to go great, but if not that was fine too. I would just go with a friend if she wasn't interested. She took off work so that we can go, so it would appear she's interested... but despite that, and despite all the continued closeness we still seem to have, she still is clear that she wants a divorce. I hope this doesn't seem like to much of rambling mess...I'm just really lost right now and really need some guidance.
H: 41 W: 35 M: 9 years T: 10 years S: 9 D: 7 ILYBINILWY & "I want a divorce": 6/22/2011 Piecing: 10/2011 Still going strong as of 4/2013
I guess I just don't get it. Monday night I went out to dinner with some friends/co-workers instead of coming home right after work like I usually do. My wife definitely took notice, and said it really made her happy to see me doing stuff with other people. The rest of the night was spent together on the couch, looking at some of her photography and just being close.
Tuesday and Wednesday night she called me from work (she works evenings) to tell me she was having a rough time, having lots of stress and anxiety about what's going on. I'm not really sure how to respond when she tells me that stuff. She knows I don't want this, so what am I supposed to say? I just tell her that I definitely know how she's feeling and can totally relate and leave it at that. Last night (Thursday) she came home from work around 10:30 instead of going out after with her friends like she usually does (going out seems to be losing some of its luster for her; she's been hinting at how what's going on between us has put a damper on the fun of going out). We hung out on the deck for 3 or 4 hours, drank a couple of beers and just talked and listened to music. No relationship talk, just us being the good friends that we are. I found myself thinking "How can this person want to end this...this is what solid marriages are based on." Is the friendship and closeness that we still have something I should be discouraging as part of a 180 or LRT? It seems like these are good things...things I should be encouraging/promoting at the same time I'm getting a life for myself.
H: 41 W: 35 M: 9 years T: 10 years S: 9 D: 7 ILYBINILWY & "I want a divorce": 6/22/2011 Piecing: 10/2011 Still going strong as of 4/2013
The first thing I think of is that your wife doesn't appreciate how much good she has. I mean, it is certainly of importance that she is missing some things that are obviously very important to her, and she deserves to have those issues addressed. But dumping the whole marriage?
I say this because I have seen our marriage in situations where the things she complains of are the smallest of things, and where the positives you have - enjoying each other's company, sex, affection - just aren't there. You seem to have all the components of a beautiful marriage, just requires some assembly.
I wish I could help you with your questions. I understand your dilemma...DBing, especially the 180, seems to focus a lot on not pursuing. Your wife's complaint, it seems, is that she WANTS to be pursued more.
Still, the GAL seems to be working for you. Maybe you should just stop pursuing the issue of marriage. Don't bring the subject up. And do the things she has been wanting, but in doing so, DON'T seek her approval or appreciation, and DON'T try to apply it to the question of whether your marriage should contiue. Most of all, in doing these things (setting dates, etc.), learn to enjoy them, so that you are doing them for yourself, rather than to please her.
I will warn you, I am not a veteran DBer, so you might want to check this against someone who really knows the stuff first.
My best to you. Hope your marriage comes back better than before.
Think about it...if you met a potential mate who was nothing but a bundle of needs, would YOU be attracted to them?
Based upon what you said, she is seeing you in a whole new light, right?
Why remove that right now? Is it costing you anything?
You're shining right now.
Oh...learn the fine art of STFU about the divorce.
Other than that, you're building up these good thoughts, that should you seperate or start the process of divorce, or get one...
She will likely miss.
The LRT or going dark or dettaching or any of those ideas that withdraws you from the spouse is more for you. Designed to protect YOU from them, not designed to make them pay.
Doing it with the primary idea to 'show them' is a tactic and a trick. "I'll make them wake up," you might be thinking.
2 1/2 weeks ago is not really a long time. Give yourself some time to make these changes YOU like stick. She isn't likely going to believe they are. I don't not at the moment.
Keep doing what you are doing.
Time and consitency on your part builds her trust in you.
Experience is a brutal teacher, but you learn. My God, do you learn. - C.S. Lewis
Life is usually all about how you handle Plan B. - Jack3Beans
Listen without defending; Speak without offending - FaithinAK
@Psych77, that's the thing...it seems like we really do have the things that a good, long-term relationship is built on. But she's really in this place where the "I'm not in love with you" feeling outweighs everything else...and she feels that way because she saw me kind of shut myself down to living a life of my own over the last few years, and because I didn't give her the quality time that she needed to feel loved. She spent a lot of time and effort loving me the way I needed to be loved, and I gave her the same thing in return...not realizing that her "love language" was completely different than mine.
@Jack_Three_Beans, I appreciate your insight...and I know that you're right. There's just this part of me that wants to scream "This is f'ing crazy! Look at what good friends we are...look at what we have!" I know it would be counter-productive, so I won't do it, but I really wish there was a way to have her read Divorce Busting and/or The Divorce Remedy. She believes that we are in a hopeless situation, and the fact that the marriage has required work, and that she's fallen out of love, means we weren't meant to be together. Meanwhile, I'm reading these books and seeing that what's going on with us makes us a textbook example of what happens with a couple that was totally unprepared for what marriage is really like. I see that there are workable solutions that would bring us to a deeper, more committed type of love...but she sees things as hopeless. And with the kids in the mix, it just all feels really...tragic.
H: 41 W: 35 M: 9 years T: 10 years S: 9 D: 7 ILYBINILWY & "I want a divorce": 6/22/2011 Piecing: 10/2011 Still going strong as of 4/2013
Well, I know it's against all advice...but I discussed things directly with my wife this morning. All week she's been dropping hints about how anxious she is, what a hard time she's having, how she's ok when she can keep herself distracted but as soon as she's alone with her thoughts she gets a panicky feeling. She's even called me from work or when she's out with friends to tell me how sad she's feeling. I never know how to reply, so I've just been sticking with variations of "well, I can definitely relate" or "I know how you feel", and I just leave it at that. What I really would like to do is tell her that what she's feeling is the consequence of her decision, but I don't. I've been avoiding all talk of the marriage and the divorce and just trying to keep on keeping on.
Last night though, she came home reeeally drunk from a night out with her friends. Apparently she drank a whole lot in a short amount of time, and started getting really angry and belligerent with people, and eventually one of her friends had to force her out of the bar and see her home. When she came in around 2am she told me what had happened, and how she was feeling, and again I just kind of stuck with the "I know where you're coming from" and "I'm sorry you're having a hard time" line, but left it at that and tried the best I could to get back to sleep.
This morning, I just couldn't bite my tongue any longer. When she woke up she was depressed and disappointed in herself, she started tearing-up and talking about how hard everything was, especially with us being in limbo and still living together, so I told her I had a few things to say, that I didn't expect or even want her to respond to, but that I felt like I needed to say just to put it out there so I could forever hold my peace afterward. I basically told her that I understood and respected her decision about the divorce, but that I ultimately still felt it was the wrong one for us because I was learning that we aren't in some abnormal situation...countless other couples find themselves in our very same shoes, and the problems we are having are textbook examples of what people in long-term relationships go through. I told her that my eyes had been opened to a lot of my own shortcomings, but that they weren't core things about me that are unchangeable, they are simply things that I wasn't aware of, and now that I am unaware of them I'm on my own journey of personal growth because--with or without her--I want to be the best person, friend, and father that I can be. I also told her it was no longer a matter of us working on the relationship together, because I had things I needed to do for myself, regardless of what our outcome was, and that was the path I was heading down. I know that right now, to her, they're just words...but they're honest words. They seemed, for the first time, to sink in with her. I don't know that they changed her mind, but that wasn't my intent. I think my intent was more to let her know what was going on with me; why I seem to be doing ok and getting on with my life. She listened without responding, but asked me afterward to just lie with her and stroke her head, and while I did she talked about how disappointed she is in herself for handling things the way she is. I didn't respond to any of that, just kept rubbing her head and her back until she fell back asleep, and then got up and showered and started the day with the kids.
Got a hectic day/night planned; yesterday was the boy's 8th birthday, and tonight is his b-day sleepover with a couple of his buddies, so I've been out with the kids getting everything together for that. When I got home my wife was out getting a few party favors and getting a gift for her own friend's birthday, which she'll be going out to celebrate after the kids go to sleep. She was impressed that I gave her my full blessing to go out again tonight, especially with the sleepover going on, but I figure the kids will be settling in for a movie and bedtime at that point anyway... plus, if we end up separating/divorcing, I figure this is the type of stuff I'll be doing on my own anyway.
H: 41 W: 35 M: 9 years T: 10 years S: 9 D: 7 ILYBINILWY & "I want a divorce": 6/22/2011 Piecing: 10/2011 Still going strong as of 4/2013
Wife came home from her errands and seemed in better spirits. Asked me to follow her into our bedroom, where she hugged me and thanked me for this morning and told me she was feeling much better. Not really sure what to make of that, and didn't bother to ask. I just told her "Your welcome" and left it at that. Part of me thinks maybe she's compartmentalizing us as "good/best friends". I know that's important to her, even after we divorce. Figure there's no point in further discussion; I've said what I felt like I needed to see. Now just sticking to being the person I need to be. Hope it causes a change of heart in her, but I know what I need to do regardless.
H: 41 W: 35 M: 9 years T: 10 years S: 9 D: 7 ILYBINILWY & "I want a divorce": 6/22/2011 Piecing: 10/2011 Still going strong as of 4/2013
So I've been managing to refrain from all talk about the relationship, marriage, and divorce. Just been doing my own things as much as I can, making time for the kids, my friends, and working out. My wife seems to be moving us more toward the "best friends" domain...that is, most of the physical contact we were still maintaining seems to have decreased...but we still hang out and have a good time together. Most nights we still go to bed with her pushed up against me, but it's like she catches herself at some point during the night and moves away from me. On the other hand, I've noticed she's wearing her wedding ring more often; she had been taking it off almost all the time and seemed to be wearing it only when she went to work (I assume to avoid raising the curiosity of her co-workers, but who knows. I've quietly observed this, but haven't commented on it).
She had an appointment with her therapist this morning, which would be the first since dropping the bomb on me about a month ago (therapist went away on vacation the next day and just came back). I'm not sure how it went, as she rarely if ever discusses her sessions...but I get the impression this therapist is not marriage-friendly, so to speak. That definitely concerns me, but I don't discuss it at all. Part of me is expecting another "talk" at some point in the next day or so, based on whatever was discussed in their session today. The other part of me is thinking "no news is good news."
I saw my father-in-law a couple of days ago, and he made a point of telling me that when the separation came he would be there for me to talk to if I needed/wanted. I felt like asking him if my wife had said something to him about it, because she hasn't brought it up with me at all, but I decided not to say anything and just thanked him for the kind words/offer. Feels a bit like purgatory right now.
H: 41 W: 35 M: 9 years T: 10 years S: 9 D: 7 ILYBINILWY & "I want a divorce": 6/22/2011 Piecing: 10/2011 Still going strong as of 4/2013
