Nearly 5 years but who is counting?

[missmyfriend]

@Starsky - The difference about what is happening with my children and the choices they are making probably has to do with their ages. My kids are 18, 16 & 14 (and my youngest is about to turn 15). Your children are much younger and I would have to agree that you have to step in if there is a dangerous situation that could occur.

I have tried to lead by example (not always have I been successful) since this has happened so I am hoping that what my kids have learned that they will return to doing what is right.

Proverbs 22:6 - "Train up a child in the way he (they) should go, Even when he (they) is old he (they) will not depart from it."

I expect that the kids will return to Him because I am fairly certain they already belong to Him. If they do, He will stop at nothing to round up the lost sheep.

I cannot force them anymore. I can love them and make my choices as to who I follow; the Lord or the world. We cannot serve two masters (more scripture, I know), or we will love one and hate the other. I never preach at my children. I have made that mistake years ago, not realizing it and I can tell you that no one likes to be preached at (including me).

As far as protecting my children, they are spiritually in danger but I trust that God will help lead them back to where He wants them. My kids are older and they are dealing with all of the things that older kids are being faced with such as driving, drinking, dating, potential substance abuse and so many other pitfalls. When your kids get older, you will realize that you have to trust God, and not them, that they will survive their teenage years. They know that I do not agree with much of what happens these days. I have instructed them on respecting themselves and others and to make decisions according to the long-term.

So, when you are saying that my children are not receiving a good example from either my wife or myself, do you mean that I need to date so they can see how a person is supposed to treat the opposite sex? Or are you implying that I am a doormat for my wife? I will need more information before I respond.

In the event it has to do with how I interact with my wife, in front of the kids, the little interaction there is, I show respect. I do not react to every situation, innuendo, sly remark, etc. I have a tendency to make light of awkward situations to de-fuse an otherwise potential conflict.
My kids, for now, won’t understand or probably agree with how I handle situations but I do believe that time will be my friend. I don’t want my kids resorting to responding to every conflict ready to pounce and make sure they get even.
I hope that my kids see a father that never stopped loving their mother and continued to show her respect. And I hope that is what they do with their spouse when they get married.
I’ve noticed that when I have listened to God, I have an amazing peace. When I don’t, I feel conflicted and frustrated.
I really like your last question “Am I missing something? If there are no visible signs that your situation with your wife is changing, and your kids are not doing well with the setup, how can this be "God's will" for your life? Aren't we supposed to judge ourselves and others by the fruit that we bear?”

I don’t know if you are missing anything. How can we say what is God’s will. I have read a lot about scripture on relationships and have learned an amazing amount of facts that are contrary to conventional thought. To most of the world, standing for your marriage is insane. Anyone that goes to Michele would be considered crazy. Instead, we are supposed to immediately start fishing for that replacement girlfriend or boyfriend, planning on our next marriage. If our spouse didn’t want us then we move on.
I am going to ask for your forgiveness ahead of time. I do not doubt you are a Christian nor would I but what I am about to say may make you think that I am saying you can’t be a Christian. Again, I am not saying that and I don’t believe that.
God’s will for our life isn’t fulfilled until we replace our will for our life with His will. We often hear that God must want us to be happy and that if we want something, pray to God for it and He will make it happen. First off, we can easily confuse what we want as what will make us happy but it may not be God’s will. God doesn’t want any marriage to end in divorce. His words are the opposite. He said that “no man (person) is to separate what He has joined”.
What happens, often, is that some cute girl (or cute guy for the ladies out there) start paying attention to us and when we talk to that person, they make us feel “loved” again. And then adding to the attention, we find out that the other person is a believer. We then rationalize that this must be God’s will, otherwise, why would that person be there.
Could it be God’s will? Possibly but it could also be father of lies, looking to steal and destroy what God intends to repair.
An important comment that you made was that there are no visible signs that my wife is changing and that my kids are not doing well. I don’t disagree but I cannot see what is in her heart. I have no idea what is going on in her life. Michele teaches that we cannot know what is happening in our spouse and to avoid reacting to what they are doing, especially those in the throes of a MLC. And the bible has numerous examples of people that appeared to flee from Him only to run toward Him. I am certain people that knew of Hosea’s situation with Gomer, thought he was “insane in the brain” to not only wait on his wife but to raise children that were the offspring of his wife and her lovers. How incredibly insane was it for Jacob to work for his uncle for 14 years to gain the hand of Rachel? How crazy was it for Abraham to listen to God to prepare to sacrifice his son?
While I am no bible hero, I know that God has given these men (and women) as examples to trust in Him. I have no idea how this will all turn out but I know that my kids need me to focus on being a dad and turning the other cheek over and over again when my wife (and children) hurt me.
To others, I may be a doormat (I certainly don’t think so) but I will be the doormat that my wife and kids come home to…someday.

[forward]

MMF, Part of me admires your dedication. But I would also urge you to read about codependency. I learned a lot about it through the course of this.

There is a difference between love and codependent, unhealthy attachments. And yes, it is critical for you to forge a new and complete life for yourself. What I note is that it is difficult to respect and feel attracted to someone who still will put up with you after you treat them like crap. And love needs to be based on respect, not idealism. Also, I realize that I fell in love with possibilities and potential, not realities. Love needs to be based on realities.

You must be happy on your own before you could possibly rejoin as a couple.

[missmyfriend]

@Forward - I respect your opinion but I honestly had to decide whether I believe what is in the bible is true or not; and follow which path appears to make the most sense to me.

I will not tell anyone else to do what I am doing. They have to feel compelled on their own and I certainly will not pass judgement on others for their decisions. I may not agree with them but that is something that I can consider internally without making them feel like they are doing the wrong thing.

I have poured over scripture, not just related to marriage but through much of the Old Testament and New. I admit I haven't read the entire bible. I have read most of it. And some sections I have read numerous times.

For me, I see that God has a plan for our lives. Outside of His relationship with each of us individually, the next most important relationship we can have is with our spouse. God has repeatedly made His opinion clear regarding marriage and the dissolution of marriage.

I don't reject secular thought on relationships and how to take care of one's emotional needs. I weigh that and what everything people say to me and what I think I want to do against what I have read in the bible. I personally believe that people need moral absolutes and should take personal responsibility to feel safe (emotionally) and secure. Please don't misunderstand me. I don't mean if we follow everything God has commanded us that we won't experience hardships, sadness or other negative situations but there is a peace that one feels when they prefer to follow God's will over their own.

At this time, you probably think I carry a bible with me and talk like this with everyone. LOL! Not even in the slightest. I am a very private person and have built up walls like everyone else. Also, I have read scripture where we are instructed to not pray out loud in front of others as a display of our supposed faith but to pray somewhere where it is quiet and we can be alone with God. On the other hand, I do believe we are to reach out to others about Him, to share the gospel. I don't discuss it unless the conversation leads that way and it is a give and take conversation.

Back to the topic. Following scripture such as in Ephesians 5:25-27, 1 Corinthians 13 and many others are powerful reasons for me to fight for my family in prayer. I sincerely believe this is a spiritual battle and that I cannot, personally, do anything about, other than pray and be there for my family when they "need" me. My wife and I have little contact. I see my kids infrequently.

I have a dependent, healthy attachment to God and I am still working on the man He wants me to be (and not who my family would want me to be). I do not have a codependent, unhealthy attachment with my wife because we have, for the most part, no relationship at all.

As far as my being "attracted" to my wife, I admit that I'm not attracted to her. I said I love her. The love I feel for her is hard to describe. I care for her person and want her to be happy. I also worry more about where she will end up rather than how she is now. I try not to worry since that is not up to me but I am human, after all.

Love based on reality? The only love that is 100% real is the love that God has for us. Other than that, people can be too flakey BUT we were commanded to love each other as Jesus did. I am failing in that area in a big way but I won't stop trying. Overall, I am happier than people realize but most people are gauging it on a different scale than I am.

Forward, thanks for your post. I mean that. I thought about not saying anything more than thanks. Instead, even though many will not understand me, I thought maybe it was an opportunity to share about why I am standing. I am standing more for God than anything else, to be honest.

The biggest lie is the one we tell ourselves.

[Starsky309]

MMF,

I'm pretty sure that God allows for divorce in the case of adultery. You said your wife went from being a woman with morals, to now living with someone and that there "are no boundaries."

Has she kept her wedding vows all these years?

I'm not telling you what to do -- that's between you and God. I'm saying, I think you're selectively picking those verses of Scripture that justify what you already WANT to do.


Starsky

[Jack_Three_Beans]

I'm not telling you what to do -- that's between you and God. I'm saying, I think you're selectively picking those verses of Scripture that justify what you already WANT to do.

Don't most people? : )

[missmyfriend]

@Starsky, I know that God "allows" for divorce in the case of adultery. The word "allows" says it all. He didn't say that we have to divorce but He will permit it. I am actually divorced. My wife filed for divorce and I didn't fight her on it.

I think that most of the people who come to these boards have had spouses commit adultery. I think it is a matter of what you are willing to forgive. God forgave me of quite a lot so I am trying to follow Him as best that I can.

Has my wife kept her wedding vows? I think you already know the answer to that.

Regarding, cherry picking scripture to justify that I really WANT? I would say that, if that was the case, my wife and the other person, would probably have been stoned (and not with the mind altering substance type), I would probably be remarried and sleeping with my servants and possibly slaves, and could probably get away with (at least on earth) all sorts of things. I certainly wouldn't prefer to follow the narrow path. It is nearly impossible to do what Jesus did but we are instructed to. And again, I am not telling you anything of what you should do. I have a hard enough time staying on the path without worrying about anyone else.

Starsky, there is something else that concerns me. You seem to be making this more personal than you should. I really am feeling more at peace than I used to. Yes, I miss my family. I have known my wife for over 30 years and we started dating 25 years ago. We were married for 16 years before this happened and divorced after 18. She was my best friend.

Even though you say this is between me and God, you have a follow up sentence "...but". I have had to fight my nature to walk away from everyone; not just my wife but my children also. My nature is to get even. But for some reason, God has seen fit to put a love for my wife in my heart and help me to forgive a lot of the stuff that has happened. I pray that He does that with my wife, my children and others that know me.

[Starsky309]

I'm totally confused then. I didn't know you were already divorced. Your initial post on this thread made it sound like you were still standing for your marriage, for five years, even though your wife was still having an affair and your kids were suffering.

Sorry, I misunderstood. I should have read your backstory more carefully.

No, nothing personal. I just tend to go all "Papabear" when kids are involved.

Starsky

[Starsky309]

This is what confused me:

What is common, or at least I hope is common, between everyone is the fact that they love their husband or wife and are trying desperately not to give in to the common divorce epidemic and move on to someone new (only to repeat the same mistakes).

Do I find it challenging to stay standing? YES, oh my gosh, yes! But I feel like if I don't stand for my wife and my marriage, I may be giving up right before our marriage could be reconciled and we could experience a better relationship than what we had before everything "went south". Also, I feel that I am not only standing for my marriage but for my entire family. My children have not fared well over the years.

[missmyfriend]

Starsky, I can understand that. We have a divorce in the court system. God doesn't recognize man's divorce. In the Old Testament, divorces were granted within their "church". I am still standing for my "marriage" that was blessed by God.

I am extremely protective over my children. But then again, my children are much older than yours. As they get older, there is less you can really do to "protect" them from people who would harm them emotionally. You become someone who offers advice if they are willing to listen.

They are of the age that they can decide where they want to live and when and the court system supports it. There isn't a lot I can actually do except be patient and loving.

[Starsky309]

OK.