Process server called this morning, because H wasn’t home when I indicated he wouldn’t be. I got the message and called the server back on the cell number he left. H was just pulling into the driveway. Now I can’t decide whether to puke or cry. I feel so horrible.
Nothing much to say from this end. Regardless of how the next few days and weeks shake out, remember to take care of yourself. Some of us would hate to break out the velvet-covered 2x4's given the life and insights you brought to this section of the DB universe...
Me 52, STBEX 52 D 17, S 12 M 20 years Em Sep since 2002, Phys Sep Sept 2009
I keep wondering exactly why I still hang out on the DB boards, when I am actively seeking a divorce. I really do want out of my marriage, but I just don’t know of any other support groups that aren’t all caught up in being angry and toxic. There may well be some other group that is really into some strange idea of healing through divorce, but that just doesn’t make sense to me. My heart goes out to everyone who has been LB, because I’ve been there. It was horrible to be left and there is no amount of compassion or love that my husband could have expressed that would have made it better. I also reached the point during my H’s attempt at divorce, where I was detached and could love him in spite of what he was doing and it was a growth experience for me. If you can’t save your M, then at least I know that DBing can give the LB some peace of mind.
So I’m here for three reasons. First is the fact that I know DBing works and I share the opinions of so many people here who think marriage is something worth fighting for. I fought for a very long time. Second, I know DBing can give the LB spouse some peace of mind and I believe that there’s something for WASs to learn here too. Finally, when I was the LB spouse one of the keys to obtaining peace of mind was understanding in some small way the pain that my WAH was feeling. Now that I’m the WAS, I have an even clearer idea of how hard it was for my husband to leave me all those years ago; and maybe even how hard it was for him to go back to me. I hope that people who read my rantings and angst can glean that leaving someone is really very difficult and painful. IMO the confusing things that WASs do and say, the anger, the indecision, the vilification, the sentimentality and all the other stuff that doesn’t seem to make sense come from living in a special kind of self-imposed hell.
I can’t maintain that I’ve got the inside track on what all WASs are thinking. I’m sure there are lots of reasons I’ve not thought of – justified and unjustified – for why people give up on their marriages. I can only say why I’ve chosen to leave, and why I feel that there aren’t any other options, and why it totally makes sense to me that some WASs run hot and cold, while others are all cold all of the time.
So, I’m here for now to vent and reminisce and explain and commiserate, because we all know divorce bites.
So H finally called today to talk settlement. He wants to come out next week and get his things. He refuses to take any of the furniture or electronics or to let me pay him for those items. He also refuses to accept any of his interest in the house when it sells. I told him to keep an open mind about it. There are some practical reasons why he might not want the furniture and stuff, but he ought to at least let me make an equitable settlement. He could use the money.
Oh, and I can add to my list of crazy stories he tells me. This one is that the house was almost condemned. Never happened. The house wasn’t in the greatest shape, but even the problems that might have given an inspector pause would not have condemned the place. I know it makes him feel better to believe this, but I dread how it’s going to get all wrapped up into the mythology of how he did everything for me and I left him with nothing, even though he won’t let me give him anything.
He said the only thing he wanted from the house was to let me let him finish the renovation before I sell it. I told him that I would let him finish it, but he’d have to keep paying the mortgage, because I can’t pay both mortgage and rent on my place – I left out the word “indefinitely” even though this is exactly the problem with allowing him to finish the house. As much as I know I won’t hear the end of it, I’d like him to have the satisfaction of finishing the house. I don’t believe that it will be as satisfying as he thinks it will be, but he’s made it the most important thing in his life and I don’t need to take that away from him. I don’t care so much that he has a point to prove in finishing the house, but it stung a little that he cares more about making that point then he did about our marriage.
I've gone back to my hometown for a graduation and to visit friends. H called Friday before I came out and I let him know I intended to visit the house he's renovating with a realtor friend. He said he's always around and would give me the new keys. I told him I would confirm if it would be Mon or Tues and let him know.. On Sun I couldn't get through to his phone or Voicemail so I sent an email aroud 4:30 confirming the appt for Monday afternoon. I didn't hear back until 6 the next morning when he sent an email saying something about not knowing my plans, that he hadn't slept, he might go to ER and had an appt in the morning (that he hadn't mentioned on Friday) and wanted to reschedule with me and the realtor for Tuesday. I changed the realtor appt and wished him feeling better. By chance I called my cousin who is at my apartment just as H walked in the door there (700 miles away). No wonder he hadn't slept.
I guess he doesn't have to explain himself to me. He has no one to visit out there, so I assume it had to do with the D and I'll find out one awful way or the other. When it comes down to it the only thing that really ticked me off was his pretending it was somehow my fault he didn't know my plans before he left town and dodged the appt. I was perfectly clear that I was in town and would set the appt for Mon or Tues. He was adamant that he was always at the house, and didn't mention appts. Then suddenly it's "I made other plans because I didn't know what you were doing" ... and couldn't pick up a phone. Oh well. He got a little rest there and then got in the car to drive back. In the middle of all of this I got a frantic call from his brother wondering why he hadn't called or come home, so he apparently told no one he was leaving town. My cousin didn't think he was looking well at all. The whole thing was very strange and creeped me out a little. I suggested he just stay there and start packing since he wants to move his things this weekend, but he wasn't comfortable with not being here when the realtor and I (and some imaginary parade of people) are in the house. Whatever... I think he needs rest more than I need a chaperone, but my opinion isn't relevant as usual. Lessons: If your weird WAS is taking his or her sweet time about making a plan with you, it's probably okay to follow up before making other plans. I know some DBers have gotten yelled at for pressuring, but I was always unafraid to risk poking the bear with a reasonable request. Also please call your relatives before you leave town overnight or leave them a note or call them in the morning. Finally don't freak your WAS out by popping in on them unexpectedly, even if you know they aren't home. It looks suspicious and stalkeresque.
So saw H for the first time since the bomb. He made the classic mistake of wanting R talk without being prepared to listen. I warned he wasn't ready to hear it and I didn't think I had the words yet, but he persisted. Do you think he was a patient and cautious listener? Nope. He deflected, argued, accused, guilted, all of the very unattractive approaches to trying to coerce a WAS into staying. Lesson for today: When your WAS says s/he doesn't like how you treat them, do not underscore it by being a jerk. Even if you hear the white hot noise of outrage, bite your tongue and excuse yourself. Then think about it later or talk it through with someone objective. You might learn that you did something wrong or you might learn that you are soon going to be gladly rid of a total whack job. Either way, you won't be classified as a jerk on that one occassion.
I "only" told H that I was in a lot of pain and I didn't like how he treated me and that there were many ways that he treated me horribly. I did not come out and call him a verbally abusive, control freak, conspiracy theorist bent on making himself and everyone around him miserable. I was really easing into it gently, but he didn't even want to know how he treated me that I didn't like, he just wanted something to beat me up about. So unattractive.
Just nournaling. Being back here has been thought provoking. One of my friends reminded me that back when H left me last time he had been stuck on not completing college and getting a job in much the same way he is stuck on completing the house. I hadn't thought to compare the two situations, but it's true that H is behaving the same way --cutting people out of his life, changing the parameters of his "mission", making excuses, seeking perfection, etc. I accepted all of the "reasons" for his ever moving targets and made excuses for him and tried to reason with him but he was as dissmissive of me then as he is now.
Also talk with SIL was very revealing. First she said that horrid BIL's reaction to the news I had left H was that he announced his intention to go to bed, as though he couldn't care less. Not very supportive, but the guy is toxic. Second she said neither of them was surprised and that she had been telling him for years that I am young, beautiful, intelligent and talented and if H didn't come live with me some man would snap me up. WTF!!! What a horrible thing to say about me... as if I would even entertain cheating on my H, as if I can't handle myself in the presence of would be suitors. It was wholey offensive, and the fact that she chose to scare H with the prospect of losing me rather than give him a valid reason to get his act together, like he was missing out on the life we could have had together just speaks to the kind of toxic person she is. All I can say for ILs is double-yuck. Not going to miss the toxic twins at all. Too bad H chooses them over me.
H is behaving badly. H sent me a formal sounding emai this week confirming that he was coming to get his belongings this week, explaining that this is costing him a lot, and reiterating that he doesn't want anyone here, but me. After having thought about it, I wasn't so keen on spending three days alone with a man who verbally abuses me, so I told him some of my friends would be stopping by to check on my well being. He blew up. He went on about if I didn't feel safe I should have the sheriff come out. (I'm one of those people who would rather risk being hit than have the neighbors see the police at my house.) Anyway he's been acting more and more aggressive toward me, but the verbal abuse has been getting worse over the years and is the main reason I'm leaving him. He's never struck me and maintains a pride point about it--even going so far as to tell me back when I first started complaining about the verbal abuse that "I wasn't being abused,unless he struck me." At any rate, he's been angrier and more irrational since I filed and the fact his mind went from "well being" to "sheriff" made me wonder. I asked him if I should be concerned and told him that he can't yell, make accusations,etc. I also told him I'd meet my friends elsewhere if he could guarantee good behavior. That just made him angrier so he sent me back a screed with bold words,exclamation points etc.about how I yell at him and how he has to out up with me -- typical verbal abuser response, but he did say he didn't intend to hurt me.
I know two things about him that are relevant to the situation. First, he will lie about his intentions, because be lies to himself as much as me. Second, he is experiencing LB rage in addition to his normal nastiness. He probably won't make it the weekend without blowing up and I'm no longer 100% sure he isn't capable of physically hurting me. I haven't been able to admit it until recently, but he does frighten me... sometimes more than others, but now more than ever. I'm trying to cut him some slack for being hurt, all the while trying to maintain my rights and safety. I want to cooperate on the divorce to make it as easy on both if us as possible, hence my agreement to help him separate and pack things this weekend. On the other hand, I'm not sure this is the best thing for me personally. I feel sick.
After several nasty toned snails from him we're on day one. He's been moody and taking minor cheap shots at me and he refuses every kind gesture. He unpacked what I had packed -- his perogative I guess. He told me he doesn't want my help moving boxes from downstairs, because he wants them moved right --I guess it's like brain surgery -- but I'll still help if he comes to his senses. He also refused coffee and breakfast I made, because he had to take off somewhere, so I'm just supposed to wait for him or hear about how uncooperative I was. No win situations and inability to coordinate plans-- two more reasons I want a D. Thanks for letting me rant. LBers and WAs, please remember that these things are painful enough for everyone without pettiness. If everyone tries to be big about it, it's much better.
Hi Zero, I just read through your sitch. I am really concerned about his coming to get his belongings and wanting you to be alone. That just raises a HUGE red flag to me.
My sitch is uncannily like yours--when I found your post I just couldn't tear away from it as it reminded me so much of my own H. In Jan he hit me and was taken into custody. It escalated very much like your sitch--verbal abuse, entitlement, etc. I had a policewoman friend who warned me that it gets worse and worse with these guys and sure enough, she was right.
My H still has all his belongings here and I will NEVER be alone with him again--it's just too risky. I fantasize that he is sorry for what he has done, but I need to drop the fantasies. He just isn't well. Like your H, mine "forgets" things and truly, honestly can berate me for hours and then it turns out I was right. I used to joke that he could always find a way to speak out of both sides of his mouth--he is very much a "chameleon" and able to change his tune depending on his surroundings. Full of drama, too.
There is something in YOU Zero, and you know that you know it's true--you "put up with" the most bizarre abuse
It's still such a struggle--trying to figure out how and why I did put up with what I put up with. I am determined that I understand and fix myself. There truly must be something wrong deep in my psyche that I went along with this all this time. (16 years).
You know he is going to yell. You know he isn't going to respect your boundaries. You know he is going to behave badly, and truth is, you may get very hurt. You have that persona of "I can handle him", but it's not true--he is going to go down a very dark path--and he isn't going to get better. It's sad, but these are people that are on their way down and he will cling to you, because you will separate from him and he will fail faster that way.
Accept who he is. He has been telling you a very long time who and what he is and you have ignored it. Dig down deep and try to figure out what you are missing that you would create a "fantasy" instead of dealing a long time ago with reality. It's not an easy journey, and I wonder myself if I will ever figure out "Me" and be able to change. But basically...you have to. You have only one life.
Thanks, Laura. Things have been pretty calm this weekend. He starts out each day a little surly and then calms down as the day goes by. The whole thing about him wanting me here is a total control game, because he's spent three days working on one room and hasn't begun to touch the stuff that needs my involvement. We did get a little bit settled on the big items without any drama. He started yelling at me yesterday about something and I told him in a firm spoken voice to stop it, and he did. Of course he's taking his sweet time getting out of here. He should be packing the truck today, but still no truck, he's just making inventories and "staging." In two and one half days he's packed twelve boxes and moved about twenty... there are fifty more in the basement... but he won't let me help. Whenever I get too bored, I just leave and tell him to call me, but he doesn't call because he's not really doing anything.
I have been doing a lot of reading lately on the subject of abuse, and have some insights into why I stayed with him this long. In part, I know it is because I am a loyal, determined, compassionate and hopeful person. There were good times scattered among the bad, as there are in most abusive relationships, but my real problem was in identifying that I was being abused and even when he frightened me. One thing abusers do is create confusion. I knew something was wrong, but I couldn't quite put my finger on it. Being compassionate, I always tried to understand what had happened from his point of view as though his anger came from a rational place -- it doesn't.
One could ask, how could someone explain away abuse? That's where it has helped me to realize that my father is a verbal abuser too. My mother is an amazing woman who was able to create her own boundaries and hold her own against my dad. As a kid, I think I was insulated from it, because his primary target was my mother, but it didn't give me a good foundation for being able to tell when someone had gone too far. I also know from how my parents deal with one another that someone who does go to far can be very sorry without actually making an apology. In short, I will put up with a whole lot of crazy without any resolution for a very long time.
I'm not weak -- I know because I've put up with him for so long and still maintained a sense of myself. I'm not stupid, but my H is a fantastic liar. I never sought to change him, though I did think we would grow together as a couple and he certainly told a lot of great stories about how things were gonna be someday. I'm not looking for abuse, in fact, quite the contrary. I've been seeking to mutual understanding with someone who creates the illusion of intimacy through lies and confusion. It's all been smoke and mirrors, but now I know the tricks. I don't see any reason to beat myself up for loving, trusting or hoping. It just took a lot of years to realize that love and trust and hope were wasted on someone who felt unloveable, didn't trust anyone and manipulated through hope. That's on him, not me.
Don't even get me started on those jerks who say things like, "well she stayed with him" or "he knew she was crazy before they married" or "he wouldn't have acted out if she hadn't stood up to him." That just boils my blood. Anyone who knows anything about abuse knows that it's sunshine and roses at the start, then a few subtle things happen and then it just starts getting worse.
I know now that my H is in a lot of pain, and it doesn't have anything to do with me (except the part where I'm abandoning him finally). He won't accept that he's abusive. I'm not helping him by continuing to be his target. I'm not helping either of us by staying.
I used to be upset that he wouldn't move out to live with me, but I don't think we'd be married right now if we hadn't spent so much of our marriage apart. I knew it was over when he started talking seriously about moving, and the first thing I thought was "Oh, no." Yep! It was all a great fantasy as you say, or as I like to say, "He was a great husband in theory."
