May the force be with you young Ericmsant2.....

[ericmsant2]

Looking for some advice/words of wisdom…

Many of you are well aware of the challenges that I have had with my oldest son (17) and I have been trying to figure out what I can do to at least try and repair/reconcile the relationship.

Here is a little background:

• Son is 17 and has always been closer to his mother (STBXW).
• Mother was a stay at home mom for the first 16 years of his life – until the MLC hit and she now works full time
• I remained in the martial home for about 18 months post bomb (I still often wonder if this was the right thing to do but it is what it is and I cannot change the past)
• I have two other children – D10 and S15.
• The R between the other two children is solid.
• D10 has always been very close to me
• S15 is close with both of us.
• Since moving out, S15 and D10 spend between 70 – 50% of their time with me at my house.
• Since moving out S17 (he is going to be 18 in Dec of this year), has stayed over only twice.
• Since moving out son has made the following statements to his friends:
o I am now the man of the house since my dad left us
o I now have to take care of mommy
o I am now forced to do the lawn and all of the house hold work because my dad left us
o I now have to take care of my younger brother and sister
o I now have to cook for my younger brother and sister
• S17 friends have all approached me and said that son is wrong. Most of them “saw” what transpired in the marital home while I was still in the house. In short, I because for the most part a full time parent, while STBXW was busy working and doing whatever she wanted.
• S17 is seeing a therapist whom I did not select; however, in order to avoid any confrontation with son (he apparently feels comfortable with her) I have chosen to allow the therapy to continue (this was against my L’s advice – since the therapist was also seeing my STBXW..or at least had two sessions with her that I am aware of).
• While in the house, STBXW has by her own admission made statements to S17 that would place her as the victim and me as the villain. I understand that I cannot do anything about it but it still does piss me off.
• STBXW…continues to make statements that do not promote a healthy R; however they are very subtle…i.e. mommy needs to live in a 2 bedroom because daddy does not give us enough money (FTR, I continue to pay what I was paying even though not legally required to).
• S17 has said to STBXW, that he will NEVER stay over dad’s house again.
• The place that I have moved to is actually nicer than the martial home and I think S17 resents that.
• In Nov of 2010 after a 4 way meeting with the L’s, STBXW said that she did not want to remain in the martial home (in the Sept 4 way meeting she said she wanted the house, which I agree to give her). At this 4 way meeting both of us agreed to tell the children together. I honor my part of the deal; however, STBXW did not. The weekend following the legal meeting, all three children went to STBXW parents house for the weekend. It was during the drive down that STBXW told the children that she was not going to remain in the home because she could not afford it (note: at this time the financials had not be discussed with the attny’s). It was also during the drive down that STBXW told the children that “I have to protect you so you will need to be with your father half the time” and “the three of you will never be split”. After these statements, the children were quite angry with me – angry because they felt I was not taking care of mommy.
• D10 has said to me, that I need to take care of Mommy, that I should pay more bills than mommy. My response has been that I am, that I am sorry that she feels that I am not and that both mommy and I love her very much.
• S17 has claimed that he wants to live with STBXW.
• D10 and S15 have said that they are comfortable with a 50/50 arrangement, which is what we have at this time.
• S17 now appears to have some serious anxiety issues. Such that he did not go to school. STBXW claims that it is because his girlfriend is getting her license.
• S17 always had self confidence issues. He masks these by being a bully to other kids (at 15 he was 6 foot 210 lbs – a big kid for his age).
• S17 has never been a very good student, which has contributed to his confidence issues.

To date, my approach with S17 has been to:
• Detach and give him the space he needs.
• Continue to try and send him texts every few days to say that I love him and I hope he is doing well.
• I have not communicated to him some of the comments that his friends have repeated that he has said. In short, several have said that S17 openly discuss how much he can’t stand me.
• Continue to try and reach out when I pick up the other two children. I always go up to him and give him a kiss and ask him how he is doing.
• As it relates to his school work and the attitude that he has at school. I have told S17, that I feel that he can do much better but that HE IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THE choices that she makes in HIS LIFE.
• I have told S17 that I will always love him.

So I guess my question is….what else if anything can I do?

I want to make sure that S17 understands that I love him and would love him to be a part of my life. What I will NOT allow is S17 to become a disruption OR impact the R between my other two children and me. I understand that some of this is the result of him being 17. Where I struggle is how much or what part is the result of the D and if I can do anything else to help him.

Finally, there are a few things that I want to avoid with S17.
1) I do not want to try and “buy” him. So I need to tread lightly here.
2) I do not want S to feel any pressure
3) I do not want the other two children to feel that they too can treat dad like crap and dad will take it
4) I do not want S17 to feel like he is being treated like a second hand son.

Any thoughts comments are appreciated.

[beatrice]

Is either a family therapy session [all 5 of you] or a therapy session with your stbx and yourself and son 17 a possibility?

It sounds like you need to have an arena to talk openly but with another person there. Good therapists are hard to fool, and since both of the other 2 have self esteem issues they feel good about themselves by dissing you.

You will probably have to take this at first while they get it off their chests. Truth, to many people, is much less important than how they feel. Your son is upset with his mother I suspect, at bottom, but because he is closer to her he is blaming you. easier that way - saves having to think about the facts.

Just my 2c.

[ericmsant2]

Beatrice

Thank you for your response.

STBXW and I did attend a session with the therapist that saw the three children.

- I was never given the address of the therapist but found her business card in the house, which is how I was able to contact her.

- That said, STBXW said to me "IF you want to go, you can come this Wednesday at 6pm (at the time she knew I did not know where or who this person was). When I found the business card, I knew I was going to go. FYI, this happened in Jan of this year.

- While at the therapist, 1) I was upset in part because I was not told that the kids were going (note: I had ask STBXW for months that we should do this and do it together as I thought it was best for the kids. She decided to do it on her own and never consult with me) 2) The therapist's approach was very different than anything I have read or heard. For example, I asked, rather mentioned to the therapist that STBXW did not want to implement the parenting plan - The therapist comment was "well she does not have to", my response was that everything that I have read says that it is best for the children to follow a plan once it was agreed to, the therapist response was "well I do not agree".

In addition, the therapist felt that I should leave the house - I did not agree (at the time). It was at the therapy session, that I found out that apparently my son had some "dream", which is why he was angry. When I asked how he is doing...the therapist responded that she is not able to provide that info to me. When I asked the therapist that I did not feel comfortable with her seeing my son, she said I had no choice (BTW, my lawyer disagreed). I thought about forcing the issue i.e. make it a legal one; however, after much thought I did not want to further alienate my son.

both of the other 2 have self esteem issues they feel good about themselves by dissing you.

It is not the other two it is my oldest that has the self esteem issues. The other two are fine. That said, I do realize that in order for my oldest to feel better he must continue to "diss" me. I will not tolerate it though and I suspect that he knows this. Hence he does not come over.

You will probably have to take this at first while they get it off their chests.

I did for a long time. I walked on eggshells and did not want to upset him. I am though his father....not his friend. I will not allow him to disrespect me or the other kids. I understand that he has some anger issues to deal with but I will no longer subject myself to it. That IMO, is not healthy.

Your son is upset with his mother I suspect, at bottom, but because he is closer to her he is blaming you. easier that way - saves having to think about the facts.

I get this...i really do. I guess the question i am trying to answer is....

Other than detaching and allowing him the room to process his anger...what else can I do. I do not want to lose him but I do understand that I am somewhat limited in how I can pull him closer.

Thank you again Beatrice.

Eric

[PEI]

Hey E,

I'm short on time but wanted to add my quick 2 cents (zip it Mach!)

I think, and I'm guessing here, that beatrice meant your stbxW and S17 when she said "the other two"...

You can't PULL him closer. He'll resist.

DB him E.

Validate him. Set boundaries. Love him unconditionally.

He'll come around ... or he won't. All you can do is consistently love him and be there for him.

I've said it once, and I'll say it a million times ... GROW A THICKER SKIN Stop taking what he says and does personally, in fact I still think it would be a good idea for you to pick up a few books on parenting teens...

You've said up there that you're not his friend, you're his father, and while I agree with this statement, make sure you don't get too authoritarian in an attempt to prove your point. Also, keep in mind that he is becoming a man, and the relationship of a father and a son evolves as that son ages and comes into his own.

Love him.

Validate him.

Don't rescue him from himself or situations he gets himself into.

Continue to tell him you love him.

Never talk to his friends about him (listen but STFU) - TRUST ME, it will come back to haunt you if you do! Don't even agree with them when they say he's messed up etc. And never tell him they've spoken to you.

Always act respectfully towards his mother.

And grow that thicker skin will ya, you think teenage boys are tough .........

Peace
T

[beatrice]

PEI - and Eric, yes, by the other two I meant stbx and eldest son. Sorry that the therapy session wasn't good. Sadly there are some not very competent therapists out there along with some very good ones.

I agree with PEI. Love your son, speak respectfully of their mother even when she doesn't 'deserve' it,

[dl443322]

Hey, my friend. I agree with Pei. Dbing him is the way to go.

But, I would add that you should not be talking to his friends about him at all. Not appropriate in my book. And if he ever finds out, it aint gonna be pretty.

It really doesnt serve you well to hear what they say. You dont even know if they are adding to it. It doesnt help you in any way.

It is disrespectful to your son. These are his thoughts to his friends.

As far as he is concerned, you really cant do anything more. He knows you love him. He is just hurting and confused. Add in the hormones and man, it's tough stuff.

Continue to be the kind of dad you want to be. Set your boundaries with him. No disrespecting you. Never a bad word about his mom. Treat him with respect. Let him know you love him.

Then, let this play out for him. In time, he will realize what really happened. Children know way more than we give them credit for.

Time is what is needed. So, be patient. It may take a long while.

Hang in there, sweetie.

[Jack_Three_Beans]

Are you approaching his friends or are they coming to you?

IF my sons friends come to me with concerns about my son, I am not turing them away. I am not feeding them information to gain them as my friends either.

4) I do not want S17 to feel like he is being treated like a second hand son.

Hrnmm...

Your son isn't having an MLC.

My oldest is 15. My youngest is 10.
When my oldest complained that it felt like the youngest could do nothing wrong, I asked him;

"Is he?"

"No."

"But me and mom should...treat him, like we treat you with your attitude and your talking back, not doing your chores? You get what you give buddy. Doesn't mean I don't love you, but if you give me attitude I'll break it."

[Jack_Three_Beans]

PS - 107 bottle of beer on the wall...107 bottle of beer you take one down and...no...wait...start over.

[AntoniaB]

I agree with many of the others. I think it sounds like you're doing a ton here to try to make things work and I think honestly that a fair amount of this is normal 17 year old behavior that is exacerbated by the sitch. I watched my youngest sister act very much in this way after me and her other 2 siblings were very "easy" to deal with for my parents. She acted much like your son is acting and yet, there was no divorce, no familial problems that were pressing at the time. It was just her personality. For the record, that sister is now the very closest to both my parents and the total opposite in personality. She is constantly driving to see them and spend time with them and the most thoughtful and loving towards them of all 4 of us. So I just think a fair amount of this is normal angsty teen. He just has a way to focus the behavior with there being a family problem going on.

With that said, I also agree to DB him. You have often said DBing is really a way of life, so, it would follow that you use that here. The more you push him, the more he'll pull away. My mom used to tell my sister when she was in her "phase" that she loved her all the time--and yet prior to that mom wasn't an "I love you" kind of mom. My sister just resented that attention, to be honest. She'd only roll her eyes. Not saying you shouldn't tell him you love him, but you dont' want to be pushy I guess.

[Mach1]

Rent an hour at a local Boxing ring....

Let him have about......58 minutes knocking you around...

Save the last 2 for you...



He is 17, trying to forge his path in life, a lot of his issues, he would have, if you were still the happiest couple in the world.


I agree that you should DB him....to a certain point. Separate his learned behavior from his normal teenage behavior , then deal with the learned behavior....I.E. setting boundaries for that.

The normal behavior is only going to be addressed with time....that is why it is called...normal


You say his personality closely resembles his Mothers ?

How much do you address him, the way you address her ?

How much does his bahavior bring up too many memories to deal with, therefore you dismiss it, choosing to not deal with it ?


The -not so DB part - is that DBing your marriage in hopes she will look toward you again one day...

Your son WILL look toward you again one day, perhaps he is already looking toward you....

What are you showing him ?