Be the Lighthouse

[Jack_Three_Beans]

but I also think that we need to BELIEVE that we are going to save the M.

You don't?

That's on you man. All you.

I got through this, by not ignoring statistics, but by accepting no other number in say....1 in 10,000,000 than the 1.

Statisics in relationships are just about luck, but by how you influence and affect that number.

What number are you Denver?

[Jack_Three_Beans]

edit - m#$%er f#$%ing edit button...

Statisics in relationships aren't just about luck, but by how you influence and affect that number.

[Denver_2010]

but I also think that we need to BELIEVE that we are going to save the M.

You don't?

That's on you man. All you.

I got through this, by not ignoring statistics, but by accepting no other number in say....1 in 10,000,000 than the 1.

Statisics in relationships aren't just about luck, but by how you influence and affect that number.

What number are you Denver?

I think that is what I was saying J3B. I hear so much talk on this forum that seems to discount the importance of why we came here in the first place, i.e., to save our M or R.

I do NOT at all disagree with the idea that we should also embrace the notion that going through this process CAN make us better people, and better S's for the future, if we choose to really work at it. But to pretend that this is why we came here is simply ignoring the reality of the situation of most of us. I mean I found this website when I googled "how to save marriage after separation' or something like that. I didn't google "how to become a better person after divorce", or "how to make myself feel better after wife decides to hate you".

I was just pointing out that I am working towards 2 goals. 1) to save my M (the original purpose for coming here), and 2) to become a better person.

I think that the problem lies in the fact that when we choose to focus on both of those goals. We may see success on the 'becoming a better person' goal, but not see success on the goal of saving the M. Just bc we can feel wonderful about the success on the former, does not mean that we are not going to hurt and feel devastated about failing on the latter.

I do BELIEVE that I will save my M. I do BELIEVE that my M will be stronger once I have saved it bc of this process and the changes that I have made as a person. If I don't BELIEVE these things, I might as well go to another self help website to just focus on the other goal. I feel that if I don't BELIEVE that I will be successful that I am doomed to fail.

This attitude, which for me is essential for my success here, has an unfortunate side effect... It creates hopes and expectations. It is a waste of time, IMO, to pretend that it does not. Hope and expectation, when they are not met, can cause pain. Everyone here is going to feel that pain if they fail at saving the M. Even if they are successful at learning about themselves and becoming better people.

I just don't like pretending that it is otherwise.


P.S. At least you have an edit button J3B!

[lostinscared]

Oh boy, Denver, it is brave for you to speak such truth. Our primary goal when embarking on this was to save our marriages. To say otherwise, in most cases, is simply not true.

Also, I completely agree that if we keep the faith and believe that we are going to save our M, we cannot help but feel let down when things don't go in that direction.

I think that this is where the advice about forgetting about the M for right now and just work on ourselves comes in. It's just downright scary to do that.

I have nothing to offer here other than I struggle with the same circle jerk that you do.

However, J3B, really got me thinking tonight. I mean we are already defying the statistics... Many of us have managed to at least delay a divorce for awhile. There will be more than a few of us who will manage to save our marriages because of the tools taught here. So, that's good news. Many people don't have that. I feel your struggles, Denver. I absolutely feel them.

I'm praying for you.

LIS

[Jack_Three_Beans]

I hear AND more importantly I understand you Denver.

No one came here to learn how to become a better person you're right. I truly believe that becoming a better person offers the best chance to save a marriage the fundamental key...because while the goal is to stop a divorce...if you end it there, rest on your laurels...you failed.

You come out of this a better person, and you can hold their hand while they grow...slowly and you both build to become a better couple.

P.S. At least you have an edit button J3B!

I won't use it until everyone can again. : )

[grr]

denver, i am so with you on that last paragraph
i'm so sorry
you sound very down today
wasn't it just a few days ago that we were all feeling great??
i have had a few bad days and i am resolving that tomorrow will be better
i resolve that it will be better for you as well
no matter what the outcome, we will get through this
i wish i believed that i will save my marriage
he has told me too many times in the past few days that his reconsidering is not an option
sorry to vent on your page
we do need to stay the course and try to stay positive
what do we have to lose by doing that?
xoxo

[Jack_Three_Beans]

PS - I bet DBMod asks you to make a new thread.

[Denver_2010]

I have to be a doormat without seeming to be a doormat!! Without feeling like a doormat!

No you do not. Right now you are though. Sorry.

Look at your convos with W. You initiate everything. You offer concern, help at every opportunity.

If she wants to get together for dinner ler her set it.

If she needs help financially let her ask. You vlolunteered.

Why?

Why are you doing this Denver? Guilt? Fear?

Not guilt. Fear? Maybe. Fear that she will view me as the same insensitive guy that I was during much of our R, and almost all of our last 10 months together.

Isn't that a legit fear Grit? As I wrote that, I could already hearing you tell me to let go of my fear. But what I'm saying is, shouldn't I fear, or maybe a better way to phrase it would be, shouldn't I be concerned that W will not see how I have recognized things about myself that need change and that I have worked to change those things? If she doesn't see these things, then her reason for leaving me is validated, she stays gone, and ultimately my M ends.

I am concerned that this will happen if I continue to tow the LRT method at this juncture. At the same time, I recognize that it is a fine line to walk and I haven't walked it perfectly over the past week or two.

She does not have a chance to miss you man. You are there making sure she is safe.

Looking and watching for some kind of sign...

It is not cake eating if she doesn't initiate anything.

You feel it is becuase you're not getting the reslults you want.

I am making sure that she is safe Grit. I care about her man. I am a 'fixer'. Always have been. I know that it is not healthy. I know what you are saying, I do. As the fantasy of her WAW plan comes crashing down, I am protecting her. But again, if I don't take some action to protect her, then I am the same a*s she left in the first place.

Obviously I'm struggling with where I'm at in this process Grit. I appreciate your questions as they are making me really think things out. They are challenging me for sure.

But let me ask you something Gritter. And please don't take this as me discounting anything you are saying. I just want to hear what your thought process would be if you were in my shoes here.

I have read the entirety of all of your threads. I know where your sitch stands right now and I also think that I understand many of the things that you learned along the way. SO much of it has been a savior to me. But one thing that you seem to have concluded for yourself is that if your W came to you now and wanted to reconcile, that you are unsure if you would want to do that unless she has gone through a similar process and also learned much of what you have learned about yourself. I think that you consider yourself somewhat enlightened, as you should. But you believe that your W probably is not. BUT, you also found in your process what the meaning of unconditional love is to you... and what your vows mean to you.

How would you reconcile those 2 ideas? 1) Not sure about reconciliation with W bc of where she is at in life, and 2) loving her unconditionally and wanting to be true to your word?

What if your W came to you right now, and, as mine has, gave you an indication that there are thoughts of reconciliation in her mind and heart? What would you do? What would you do if what your W needed for that to grow into something more was some affirmation that you still want her? Would you continue to make her initiate all contact?

My point is, isn't there a certain point where you have to recognize that DB and, specifically, LRT, has worked, has gotten you to a certain point, and finally, that you need to do some things that may be considered pursuit in order to move farther towards M reconciliation?

Sorry if this is too personal Grit. I really respect the way that you process this stuff. These are things that I think bother me about my situation and I've been wanting to ask you to see how you would answer.

Thursday may be the endgame for me.

Is this the hill you're going to die on?

I really see some positives with your W.

I think she really is torn with her decision and that is good for you.

If

You let her figure it out.

If there is OM, she has to reconcile that too.

You set your self up for pain when you ask her what she is doing

now you're creating all sorts of scenarios in your head.

Breathe.

get control.

Let her initiate contact with you.

No, I think that I am reconsidering my 'endgame' comment from last night. It is not the hill that I want to die on.

For whatever reason, and for one of the few times during my situation, I was feeling some real anger.

Thanks again Gritter.

[Denver_2010]

[quote=Jack_Three_Beans]
You come out of this a better person, and you can hold their hand while they grow...slowly and you both build to become a better couple.
[quote]

I love this J3B... Absolutely love it.

Thank you.

[Denver_2010]

Ugh, Denver… Ugh…

I’m going to start at the end of your post, because I think that is what is bothering me most. Why might Thursday be endgame? Is it because your lack of patience is getting the best of you? Or is it because you have decided that you no longer want to be with your W? I have a feeling it is the former. If that is the case, then you need to stop saying these things and sabotaging yourself. Right now, you are doing things for your W in hopes that it will get the reaction you are looking for. Meaning, you have expectations still. Until you are able to stop that, you are going to continue on the roller coaster and you are not always going to make wise decisions. THIS IS NOT THE DENVER I KNOW.

Everything that you said is right on the money LIS. Yes, I was frustrated, and even angry, last night. I called Thursday the 'endgame'. I don't think that it will be. Sometimes, I just need to vent. I haven't finished my journey yet. There are hills and valleys yet to encounter. Last night was just one of the valleys.

BITS
Denver