Till death do us part... or she leaves...

[2stepboogie]

2Step - THAT is some heavy s###. What song is that from?

Which one? The first or second?

[zengypsy]

The one b4 TG's reply

[lostinscared]

Ugh, FOBD... I am glad that you didn't punch anything this time. You need to slow down the drinking, though. You really do. Alcohol is a depressant and the last thing you need is a depressant.

I sincerely hope you are at Sunday dinner with your family right now. I think you need to hang out there a little bit more often.

I know it hurts BAD. I know it does. I know none of of us believes this right now but it is going to get better. We need time to heal and we need to allow ourselves to heal. You are a fantastic guy with such a great sense of humor and a super attitude and you are going to be ok. You are going to have bad days, we all do. But bad days do not define who we are. We know the essence of who you are and you do too. You still inspire me to be better. Without you, I would have never gotten this serious about the gym and I cannot tell you how that little piece of advice is saving me right now!

Weekends seem to be really tough for you (they are for me too). We need to figure out something else. We need to figure out a better way to get through them so they are not quite as gut wrenching. But, please, slow down on the drinking... I'm very worried about you and there are plenty of us who care and want to make sure that you are healthy.

Let us know how you are doing.

LIS

[Denver_2010]

FOBD - Man, it is okay that you broke down last night. I know that you asked us not to remind you of it, but I don't want you to feel that any of us are judging you or that you let anyone down. You did NOT.

Like Gritter said, we have all been where you are. I have prayed to a god that I'm not even sure that I believe in, countless times to make the pain of what is happening to stop. I have cried and bawled and yelled to my empty house day after day, after day, for an answer to how I let this happen. When the bomb first dropped on me, I got every beer and every bottle of alcohol in my house, put it on my counter, and made it a point to drink as much of it as humanly possible until I passed out on my couch. I never drink by myself, but in my despair, I didn't see any other way to get through that night.

My point is that we understand what you are going through FOBD. We are all here for you. And man, I tell you what, I think that I would really enjoy sharing a more enjoyable drinking binge on the town with you some day! You seem like my kind of guy... a good guy, with a huge heart, and loyalty to his friends and family.

Take care man.

BITS!!!
Denver

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

[FellOnBlackDays]

BITS,
Hey, ole' FOBD here. Have you ever gone to a party, gotten drunk and made a complete *ss of yourself? Well, that is the way I feel right now. I want to apologize to you guys for my post last night. I am just now reading it and I am somewhat embarrassed. Please, accept my apology.

Funny though. In my stupor last night, I wrote myself a note that I found this morning on the bathroom counter. It read, "Dude, you stopped yourself from calling W tonight and turned to forum." I guess I was worried that I would not remember. So, it wasn't all bad last night I guess.

Things aren't as bad as I would like to believe. I just let the moment get to me last night. Lost, you are correct. I really, really think I have to find a way to control my drinking. I keep thinking I can drink her away and I cannot. I had to skip the gym today because of how I felt. Not good. I also want to apologize for the unprofessional reference to the OM. Honestly, I don't know if she really slept with him or not. I am letting my imagination get the best of me. And, I don't want him to drop dead. That was a horrible thing to say. I don't particularly care for this fellow. I think you have to be a pretty big piece of sh*t to prey on another man's wife when she is in a bad place, but I don't want him to drop dead regardless.

All right, on to the other business. Well, it has been three days and no contact from W. We talking on Thursday about getting together this weekend to move some more stuff. But, as we were hanging up, she stated, "Well, just touch base with me this weekend to set something up." I refuse to do this. She is trying to make me do the calling. She is trying to get back in control. I will not give her this control. I avoided her all weekend and, as I expected, no contact. She wants me to chase again. I don't know how to tell her this, but IT AIN'T GONNA HAPPEN. I am not the one that wants more stuff from the house. I am happy here with what I have. If she wants stuff from me, she is going to have to do the calling. As heart-broken and sad as I am, I will not chase. I will not!

Today with my grandmother was kind of hard. She cried quite a bit, but did take it fairly well. I did not break down in front of her. I stood strong. Actually, I did most of my crying on the drive up which took 90 minutes. By the time I got to her place, I was emotionally exhausted and all cried out. She was so sweet. She immediately started telling me how to win my W back. She told me that I have to start "courting" my W like I did when we were dating. She is so cute. No one says "courting" any more. She made me promise her to do everything in my power to get my W back. I promised her I would. We ate lunch together and spent the afternoon watching TV. I wish I could spend more time with her. She told me that when she hugs me I make her feel safe. I love you, grandma!!

I am going to end here and start another post because this is getting long. But I do want to share with everyone the very insightful information I gathered last night.

[dixiegal]

Evening....

So, you made a mistake...it happens. Point is that you KNOW it now. But, I have to say I'm worried for you and the drinking.

Please, promise that you when you feel like you just want to be numb for a bit. That you go for a run or walk or hit the gym.

I don't know if you believe in GOD. But, talk to him...ask him to give you peace..and then listen to what he is telling you.

Your going (were) to make it through this...I promise!

I'm praying for you and all of us always,

Dixie

[2stepboogie]

It's too bad you live in the Gulf state Cause I think a night out on the town with the bits would be so awesome! We would all laugh and drink and by midnight we would all be in the fetal position with our thumbs in our mouth crying like a bunch of dirty infants. LOL.

[zengypsy]

I wish there was a way that we could all meet each other, but I know the board is very specific about privacy and I respect that. But it would be nice to get our Newcomers group together BITS and the girls.

And FOBD, no need to apologize. We all try to numb the pain in some way from time to time. Sometimes it just feels like we are being swallowed by it. I agree with DG, be careful with that - the last thing you need to do is get more depressed. Just think about if you drink yourself pissa** drunk, what is is that you are looking to gain from it?

I have been worried about you all day. Your post almost sounded like a suicide note and I was serioulsy wondering if we'd hear from you again. PLEASE don't scare us like that again. We are here for you.

[FellOnBlackDays]

BITS,
Last night, before I got smashed, I had dinner with a friend of mine who was a WAS. He and his W met in high school. They were a class behind me. They got married after college and started a family. After their first child, they started having some problems. When she got pregnant for their second child, it all came to a head and he actually left he while she was pregnant. Now, before you start hanging the noose and lighting the torches, I want to let you know he is still a good guy. Although he left, he did everything he could to make sure she had what she needed while he was away. He was still a good father to his first child and she never wanted for anything financially. They had a beautiful baby girl and she is quite cute. Hang with me, this does have a happy ending.

So, last night, I took him to dinner to pick his brain. I told him all about my sitch and about the things I have learned in DR/DB and here. I told him that he was a WAS and that I had some questions that I would like to have answered from his perspective. He happily agreed. Here is some of what was said:

Me: Did you spend months living with your W while you secretly planned your "escape."
Him: Yep. I knew for weeks that I was leaving. When I eventually told her, she was shocked.

Me: How was your SL?
Him: Gone. The last year I was in the house before the S, we had sex one time. I had no desire. That lead to our downfall.

Me: Did she beg and plead for you to stay?
Him: Yes. And every time she did, I could not get far enough away from her. I couldn't stand to see her is so much pain. And, I was causing that pain. All I wanted to do what get the hell away from her as fast as I could.

Me: Did you feel any guilt when you left?
Him: Oh, dear god, yes. I was so racked with guilt that I had to start seeing a counselor on my own. I lost all kinds of weight, I couldn't sleep, I was having trouble at work. I lost 30 pounds and my hair was falling out. If you think your W is just "happy as a clam" right now, you are very, very mistaken. If she feels just half as bad as I did, she is in some pretty serious pain. Don't fall for the happy face she might put on in front of you. She too is in a real bad place right now whether you can believe that or not.

Me: Did you cheat while you were separated?
Him: Yes. I slept with three different women during the two years we were apart. I seriously dated one of them until I broke it off.

Me: Do you regret that?
Him: In some ways, yes, and in some ways, no. (This is the part that scared the hell out of me) I was so tired of my W's crap. She was constantly picking on me about the way that I did everything. I was tired of being "minimized" in my own home in front of my son. So, when I got out there, I just did whatever I felt like doing. (Team, this is the same thing my W complained about as she walked out. This is something I should have addressed years ago.)

Me: What about your W? Did she stray?
Him: Unfortunately, yes. She eventually slept with a co-worker because she got tired of waiting around on me. Two years is a long time.

Me: Do you think the gym is a good thing during this time?
Him: Oh yes. I don't know if you remember, but I took up running during my S. I am now an avid runner and I have kept it up.

Me: Did you have a "master plan" as you tried to leave her.
Him: Yes, I did. And any resistance to that plan was met with some anger. Any time my family or friends would try to convince me to go back to her, I would tell them to stay out of it. I refused to listen to them. I had my blinders on. At one point, I told my mother it would be a cold day in hell before I went home. Frankly, for two years, I woke up every morning convinced there was no way I was ever going home. I filed for the D and we had all the paperwork completed. All we needed to do was sign them and we were finished.

Me: What were you "looking for" while separated?
Him: Nothing really. I just wanted to be away from her. I don't think I was really searching for anything. I was just tired of her and our marriage, so I went out and lived it up.

Me: What do you think about some of the things my W has said to me over the past few months? You know, the harmful stuff? Does she mean it?
Him: Honestly, I can't answer that. Maybe she does and maybe she doesn't. I can tell you this. If she said it while you were begging her to stay, she probably meant it at that moment. But feelings change. I would have one day where I still couldn't stand her and other days were I would miss her. It is a horrible period of emotional instability. But, if you don't mind me saying, I was much nicer to my W than your W has been to you at times. She didn't have to go as far as she did. I felt guilt for leaving, so I always treated my W with respect even when she was telling me to "f*ck of and die" for leaving her. I didn't have the heart to leave her and crush her.

Me: What made you go home?
Him: Honestly, I missed my family. I missed my son and my W. For two years, I told myself we were through. And, then one morning, I woke up and I felt really strange. I called her, we talked and I went home that weekend to be with her. I have been home ever since. But, until that moment that I decided to go home, I was convinced it was over. I wish I could tell you what changed my mind, but I am not sure what it was. I made the decision, I broke it off with the girl I was seeing and went home. We immediately began counseling together.

Me: How have things been since you went home?
Him: There are good times and there are bad. But things are a ton better now. While I was away, I worked on myself. I actually realized that I was, at times, being a selfish jerk. I really took some time to look at myself and make some changes. She did too. We still fight, we still have all the problems that married couples do. It isn't "xanadu" every day, but we are happy. (Name), I know this will sound hard to believe right now because you are in so much pain. But, hear me out and listen closely. This is horrible. I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy. S and D are the kinds of things that destroy the soul. But, if you and your W get back together, you both will be better people in the end. I am so much better at being a H now than I was. I am more kind, more friendly, more loving and you will be too. This sounds absurd, but we are a better couple now. We are happier now than we were. We both realized what we almost lost. This can happen for you too. If she comes home, things will be wonderful if you work at it. It is hard work and it will be constant work. But, you will find something in each other you had not discovered before. Don't hate her for leaving.

BITS, I was floored after that statement...

Me: How did you and your W address the sexual contact outside of the M during the S.
Him: Well, it is funny you should ask. I had a double-standard. I was OK with what I was doing, but I got pissed when I found out about her affair. I know, I was being a jack*ss about it. I was wrong. We used a C to get past that hump in the road and we are still working on it now. It does come up from time to time, but you have to get past that. What happened happened. I was the only man my W had ever slept with. I was devastated when she told me she had a PA. But, we are going to get past that. And, if your W strayed, you are going to have to decide what you are going to do about that. How are you going to handle that? Can you let it go?
Me: Right now, I don't know.
Him: Yes, it is early. Don't worry about that right now. Way to early to address this.

Me: What do you think about my 180'ing strategy? Do you think me giving her space and respect is the best way to handle this?
Him: Oh, god yes. I wish my W and I had discovered this book. Yes, give her some space. She does want to demonize you. Don't give what she needs to do it. You can't make her come home. My W tried and I resented her for it. Just leave the door open, play nice and if she wants to come back, she will. Now, I have no idea when that might be. As I stated, I was out there for two years. But I think your 180 idea is the best way to handle this and you will need to stick to it. Don't give her a reason to keep moving away from you.

Me: Now that I have told you everything, how do you think I am doing?
Him: Dude, you are doing great. I have to say that it takes a pretty big man to admit some of the mistakes you have discussed we me tonight. It is very good that you are realizing these things so early in the situation. This will be in your corner going forward. I think you are doing very well considering the circumstances. I think you did yourself a true service by getting this strategy in place. If you actually save your M, this will have played a huge part in it. Keep up the good work.

Me: So, what do I do now?
Him: Wait. I know you don't want to hear that. But, if you love her and you want it to work out, you are going to have to wait for her to find her way back to you. There is no silver bullet here. Anyone who tried to push me home, I dismissed them in my mind. Just keep making positive changes that she can see. Don't be a jerk. Don't cry in front of her or push her to talk about the M. Just make yourself look like a positive road to take as she stands there at this "fork in the road of life." She may take your fork or she may not. But, if the option isn't there for her, she will never come home.

I know this is a huge amount of info, but I found it sooooo helpful considering it was coming right from a WAS. I hope each of you can find some wisdom here.

I will talk you guys again tomorrow.

BITS never walk alone!

FOBD

[FellOnBlackDays]

Dixie,
I promise I will try to find my way to the gym instead of the bottle next time. Thanks for the support!

2step, dude, you never fail to crack me up. Nice stuff!

Zen, I am sorry if I scared everyone. Yes, reading my post sober is quite scary. But I promise I would never to anything to hurt myself. NEVER! I have too much to live for. I have a wonderful family, a good job, a nice house, money in the bank, no real serious health issues and a wonderful group of friends on this forum. If I can get my M in order, I will be one happy dude! But thanks for the concern. You are the best!

By the way, my buddy buried his brother yesterday in Alabama. I have been calling him every day to check up on him. He is not doing well at all. In the 15 years that I have known him, I have never seen him cry. Tonight we stayed on the phone for 45 minutes. I am doing what I can to help him understand what he is going through and will go through. He has never buried a relative. He just kept saying, "I can't believe how much pain I am in. I can't believe he is gone." I feel so sorry for him. But, I will do what I need to do to keep him going. He in a way is now a BITS also. Just a BITS of a different kind...

BITS never walk alone!

FOBD