Someone suggest H is having a MLC....I don't know?

[Queen_of_Swords]

The way I see things, this is no win situation from what I'm reading and discovering about MLC and in what you all have told me.

I have often thought this myself in month 16.

I am no good at throwing 2x4s but you will read that the winning comes from the improvements you make for yourself and your kids. Evaluating if there actually is any truth in the words of the irrational spouse. You can change those things without him.

I have attempted to reason with my W. I gave her 100 reasons to stay/return. But I now know that no amount of rational thought will have any place among the negative and hurtful memories she's created from our M.

Best of luck on this path. It is the hardest one you'll ever walk.

Yeah well those changes in me will come regardless because my focus has shifted and now I'm doing it for my own well being and for my kids. Is that winning? I question that. It is a gain, it is growth, it is movement forward, but it's no Greycup championship trophy.

I will talk to my DB coach. So many thoughts going through my head. It may be time to go darker than I have been. If he's not going to be a part of my life, then perhaps I have to behave as is that's my new reality.

[cat04]

Scylla,

My post, didn't really require a response. Although I appreciate that you took the time to read it. And reread it.

I realize that sometimes, when those of us who have been here for a long time post to others, you don't really get that we have all been through this.

It can be assumed, since we are posting here, but to actually read someone's story, can help you understand them a little bit better. We all come here damaged. We all come here looking for something that is going to give us the "key" to save our marriage.

Unfortunately, there isn't one. We can tell you what doesn't work. We can help you try to find what does, for you. Even those who have saved their marriage, from MLC, will tell you that there is no one specific thing that you can do. Except heal yourself. Know yourself. Get to a place where you can make choices without regrets.

It takes time. It takes forgivness. Of those who have hurt you, recently and in the past. Of yourself. For things that you did, ways you acted. Finding forgivness is difficult. Some feel that it is saying that their (and our own) actions were ok. It isn't. It is just a way to release the negative feelings and thoughts that we have when we are hurt. To release the things that we hold onto, that hold us back.

And it takes patience with yourself. Healing from wounds is difficult. Sometimes, we think we are healed, and we really aren't. Something reminds you of a past hurt that you thought you were over, and you feel that pain, plus new, all over again. When you are really over something, that doesn't happen. It takes time and patience, self caring, leaving resentments behind and looking at things differently. Sometimes as an outsider.

They say that every cloud has a silver lining and I agree. You just sometimes have to look really hard to find it. Once you do, that is what you need to focus on.

I want to echo to you what Jack said about looking too far down the road. You can't plan for a year from now when you don't know what tomorrow is going to bring.

You also need to make your decisions, whatever they are, for you. Not because someone said this or that or has whatever opinion they may have about something. You are the one that has to live with the consequences of your choices, not anyone else.

Good luck Scylla, in where ever this journey takes you.

[PEI]

Is that winning? I question that. It is a gain, it is growth, it is movement forward, but it's no Greycup championship trophy.

I entered the 100 meter sprint. And didn't take home the gold in that particular race.

Now, a year later, I'm closing in on the final leg of a marathon. My feet are blistered and bloody, my shins ache with muscle spasms. But I am lighter, stronger, more consistent than I was when I entered that sprint what feels like a lifetime and yet a blink, ago.

Have I lost? Have I won? It's perception. And perception is a choice.

[Queen_of_Swords]

I'm glad you're feeling you won something PEImom, from the things I've read on your various threads, if nothing else you have your self respect.

As for me I've still not made a decision either way. The H is acting weird. Acting contradictory to his intent. I'm not going to push things forward or precipitate anything. I'm not going to be a lady in waiting either.

He's made it abundantly clear by his behaviour that he has little respect for me. It hurts. Whatever. I've walked around with broken bones before, I can be stoic. My emotion is wasted energy.

I have done what my DB counselor has recommended. I have been cordial, happy and chirpy when I speak to the H, on the opportunities I do have, according to someone that has seen me interact with him.
I show interest in his life and listen. I don't text, email, phone, invite him to family activities, or initiate contact otherwise. The results are indeterminate.

So now my challenge is this, what to do next. Keep doing what I'm doing or not?
He doesn't miss me, he isn't interested in my life and if he didn't have to, he wouldn't choose to speak to me either.

Is it time to pick a neutral ground and do the kid exchange thing at McDonald's and just fade out as he walks in? Giving him a written update of the kids' lives packed in with their clothing, rather than talking to him at all? Letting his goodnight calls go to voicemail, rather than picking up the phone?

He wants me gone, so just go invisible?

[Queen_of_Swords]

I guess all my chirpy happiness and interest backfired. Tonight he has not phoned the kids. Perhaps he's scared to get me on the other end of the phone.

[PEI]

Personally, I don't think you are discounting any of our feelings, just our experience with this particular matter and everything that surrounds it. (Depression, abondonment, the effects of divorce, love languages, DB principals, healing)

If you do take the time to read PEI's threads, you will see, I gave her a very hard time too. I didn't like her and she didn't like me. I don't know if I can say that we like each other now, we still can rub each other the wrong way once in a while, but we definately have a healthy respect for each other.

Hard time? Cat is being generous with herself …

She’s right, we didn’t like each other. But even though I rubbed her the wrong way, even though she didn’t like me … she posted, she challenged, she pushed … because she still wanted to see me become emotionally healthy. I respect the hell out of her for that. And that is the caliber of the people you find here.

I'm glad you're feeling you won something PEImom, from the things I've read on your various threads, if nothing else you have your self respect.

Self respect?

That's all you see on my threads? Nothing but self respect?

Scylla, frankly your tone is condecending ... "I'm glad you're feeling you won something PEImom" ... makes it abundantly clear that you feel I have not. And that is sad IMO. See, what I no longer do is define my life by my marriage or my H. It's MY life. I win if I choose too, regardless of who's in and who's out. And almost exactly one year after the bomb I can tell you I would NOT trade this entire experience to get my OLD marriage back. Why not? Because I have never been this healthy, this whole and this ME.

Scylla, some around here would advise me not to push you too hard, not to ask for too much too soon. We all land here hurt and vulnerable and feeling victimized. You are no different. And no one here faults you for feeling that way, it's a perfectly normal and rational response to the hand you've been dealt.

I get that you came here to save your marriage, and I get that you're pissed and tired and frustrated because the tactics you've tried haven't given you what you want when you want it. They have failed to restore the protective layer, that safe haven, that you feel your marriage provided you.

Until you stop making this about HIM, until you CHOOSE to no longer feel like a victim of the situation ...

I guess all my chirpy happiness and interest backfired. Tonight he has not phoned the kids. Perhaps he's scared to get me on the other end of the phone.

Can you tell what I'm thinking too?

Perhaps he got a flat, perhaps his cell battery died, perhaps he's a knucklehead and forgot, perhaps the moon is made of green cheese ... you will drive yourself crazy with this stuff.

I hope you choose a path towards wholeness, regardless of the outcome on your marriage ... I have yet to meet someone here who's walked that particular path with regret. Good luck to you.

Peace
PEI

[Queen_of_Swords]

Personally, I don't think you are discounting any of our feelings, just our experience with this particular matter and everything that surrounds it. (Depression, abondonment, the effects of divorce, love languages, DB principals, healing)

If you do take the time to read PEI's threads, you will see, I gave her a very hard time too. I didn't like her and she didn't like me. I don't know if I can say that we like each other now, we still can rub each other the wrong way once in a while, but we definately have a healthy respect for each other.

Hard time? Cat is being generous with herself …

She’s right, we didn’t like each other. But even though I rubbed her the wrong way, even though she didn’t like me … she posted, she challenged, she pushed … because she still wanted to see me become emotionally healthy. I respect the hell out of her for that. And that is the caliber of the people you find here.

I'm glad you're feeling you won something PEImom, from the things I've read on your various threads, if nothing else you have your self respect.

Self respect?

No that's not all I see. That's the least of what I see. I see a woman that's been emotionally battered and came away better than intact. A woman that clearly likes who she is, has pride in herself, likes her life, and stuck to her own moral code.


That's all you see on my threads? Nothing but self respect?



Scylla, frankly your tone is condecending ... "I'm glad you're feeling you won something PEImom" ... makes it abundantly clear that you feel I have not. And that is sad IMO. See, what I no longer do is define my life by my marriage or my H. It's MY life. I win if I choose too, regardless of who's in and who's out. And almost exactly one year after the bomb I can tell you I would NOT trade this entire experience to get my OLD marriage back. Why not? Because I have never been this healthy, this whole and this ME.

I am sorry you find my "tone" condescending. I don't know what specifically to do to change that impression. Suggestions are welcome.


Scylla, some around here would advise me not to push you too hard, not to ask for too much too soon. We all land here hurt and vulnerable and feeling victimized. You are no different. And no one here faults you for feeling that way, it's a perfectly normal and rational response to the hand you've been dealt.

I get that you came here to save your marriage, and I get that you're pissed and tired and frustrated because the tactics you've tried haven't given you what you want when you want it. They have failed to restore the protective layer, that safe haven, that you feel your marriage provided you.

Until you stop making this about HIM, until you CHOOSE to no longer feel like a victim of the situation ...

Yeah well, I do feel victimized. Especially given the events and how they unfolded and his silence until it was too late for me to DO/CHANGE anything about it. I'm not a mind reader and I didn't know, all I knew was he was unhappy, stressed and tired, not that he laid all his unhappiness at my doorstep.
Sorry I can't live up to expectations of turning off my feelings and not expressing them.

I guess all my chirpy happiness and interest backfired. Tonight he has not phoned the kids. Perhaps he's scared to get me on the other end of the phone.

Can you tell what I'm thinking too?

No, I don't know what you're thinking right now. I'm not Kreskin.
I am speculating and not mind reading.
I did not call H to find out why he did not call the kids. I decided after I wrote the post you're responding to, that really it's H's problem. I worry about my kids and their hurt feelings, but ultimately if H doesn't call them, it's on him.

Perhaps he got a flat, perhaps his cell battery died, perhaps he's a knucklehead and forgot, perhaps the moon is made of green cheese ... you will drive yourself crazy with this stuff.

I hope you choose a path towards wholeness, regardless of the outcome on your marriage ... I have yet to meet someone here who's walked that particular path with regret. Good luck to you.

Thank you.
Peace
PEI

[Boat14]

Scylla_Charibdis,

I have been reading along.

I know this information can be disheartening. I am sorry you are going through this.

The definition of speculation is "an opinion or conclusion based on incomplete facts".

Maybe it isn't mind reading. But it is just as bad. The monsters are working overtime in your brain when you let that happen.

Part of detatching, is not worrying about why or why not they did something. Far too often, we imagine much worse than what is really going on. The only people that that hurts, is ourselves.

You are correct, his relationship with his children, is his to make or break.

Peace to you.

[handlingplanb]

Yeah well, I do feel victimized. Especially given the events and how they unfolded and his silence until it was too late for me to DO/CHANGE anything about it. I'm not a mind reader and I didn't know, all I knew was he was unhappy, stressed and tired, not that he laid all his unhappiness at my doorstep.
Sorry I can't live up to expectations of turning off my feelings and not expressing them.

You know what I get when I read this? YOU are blaming YOURSELF for what he is doing. You know why I know? Because I did the same thing, and at times catch myself still doing it. If you knew then that he was stressed, depressed, and unhappy, would you have been able to make HIM happy? No. This is about him finding happiness and about YOU finding happiness with yourself. It is not about finding happiness with a restored marriage, it is not restoring the marriage for comfort or to feel "safe." For what ever reason, he chose to bale. THIS is time for YOU.

It's taken me a very, very, very long time to get here - to this place in my mind that I GET it. You ask about timelines? I accused my H of an affair 8/16/06. He denied it. I spent a year and half BLAMING myself for a very rapidly deteriorating marriage. I tried all that I could to make him want to work on things, all the time blaming myself for blaming him for the ONE thing he would NEVER do. You know what? I was right all along.

Was it my fault that he didn't tell me he was unhappy and was seeking happiness with someone else? No. Did I feel it was my fault, and in some ways still feel it? Yes. It's all part of being HERE. It's all part of being the WAS, no matter what the circumstances.

Do you stand or not stand for your M based on any timeframe? That's up to you. My H moved out 7/18/08. He has asked for a D at least 4 times via e-mail with the first being 4/13/08. E-MAIL!! After a relationship of 30 + years. D is what he wants, however he wants me to D him. It is not what I want, I still feel that D is wrong and I have not done anything more than retained an attorney to look after my interests and respond when he is ready to file. Everyone is different when it comes to handling this, and how you handle it must be right for YOU - no one else.

I live my life as if my M is over, because it is in all but the legal sense. I still wear my ring, because it still means something to me. For me, after a relationship with a man for over 30 years, 3 kids and a lot of trials and tribulations that we overcame, you don't "give-up" after a few years of he&$. Will I reach the point some day where I will file to get it over with, maybe, but I'm not there yet, and I'm not going to put a timeframe on it. Because it is not right for ME.

I still have a long way to go (I am still learning who I am and what makes me happy), but each day brings a little more peace, a little more acceptance and a little more clarity. The thing is, I still love my H. I don't love what he's done, and at times don't love who he is NOW - but I still don't feel that THIS is him.

It's hard, but be patient. Stop focusing on your H, and focus on YOU and your kids. Find what makes you happy and learn how to not define yourself by the success or failure of your marriage (still working on this too). Don't watch the clock. Take each week, day, hour, minute or second as it comes. Do what is right for you and no one else. Love your kids and be there for them during this EXTREMELY difficult time for them. They will be looking to you for strength. They will be looking to you for stability and most of all will be looking at how you handle this. Do your best to handle each day as it comes with dignity. Do not REACT or RESPOND no matter how hard it is and in the end, however it ends (D or a restored M) you will have no regrets.

[Queen_of_Swords]

Yeah well, I do feel victimized. Especially given the events and how they unfolded and his silence until it was too late for me to DO/CHANGE anything about it. I'm not a mind reader and I didn't know, all I knew was he was unhappy, stressed and tired, not that he laid all his unhappiness at my doorstep.
Sorry I can't live up to expectations of turning off my feelings and not expressing them.

You know what I get when I read this? YOU are blaming YOURSELF for what he is doing. You know why I know? Because I did the same thing, and at times catch myself still doing it. If you knew then that he was stressed, depressed, and unhappy, would you have been able to make HIM happy? No.

I realise it's not within my power to make anyone happy or unhappy, at least intellectually. I guess I just feel very cheated of the opportunity to address all of those things he said about my behaviour and character that seemed to affect his day to day living, peace of mind and detracted from his daily enjoyment of life so much.

This is about him finding happiness and about YOU finding happiness with yourself. It is not about finding happiness with a restored marriage, it is not restoring the marriage for comfort or to feel "safe." For what ever reason, he chose to bale. THIS is time for YOU.

It doesn't feel like time for me. It feels like prison sentence /punishment, and not just for me, but for the kids too.
A freaking long time out for bad behaviour, with reeducation thrown in for good measure. Granted I chose that and it was not imposed upon me by anyone, just by the circumstances of trying to cope with this garbage.

It's taken me a very, very, very long time to get here - to this place in my mind that I GET it. You ask about timelines? I accused my H of an affair 8/16/06. He denied it. I spent a year and half BLAMING myself for a very rapidly deteriorating marriage. I tried all that I could to make him want to work on things, all the time blaming myself for blaming him for the ONE thing he would NEVER do. You know what? I was right all along.

Yeah I'm suspecting an emotional/ or even physical affair myself. No proof, but my instincts lean in that direction.

Was it my fault that he didn't tell me he was unhappy and was seeking happiness with someone else? No. Did I feel it was my fault, and in some ways still feel it? Yes. It's all part of being HERE. It's all part of being the WAS, no matter what the circumstances.

Do you stand or not stand for your M based on any timeframe? That's up to you. My H moved out 7/18/08. He has asked for a D at least 4 times via e-mail with the first being 4/13/08. E-MAIL!!

Oh I hear you! My H did the same thing. Disrespectful, mean, cowardly...doesn't begin to describe getting the information that way. They may as well have stood on the front step of our homes and had a bullhorn, but that would have taken guts.

After a relationship of 30 + years. D is what he wants, however he wants me to D him. It is not what I want, I still feel that D is wrong and I have not done anything more than retained an attorney to look after my interests and respond when he is ready to file. Everyone is different when it comes to handling this, and how you handle it must be right for YOU - no one else.

Yes every person here and situation is individual, no matter how many points in common they have.
I've still made no decision, hired no lawyer. I've only hired a DB counselor and spent a ton of money on my program and DB counselor.
The thoughts and feelings I have are still swirling around in the blender. My thought processes lean this way though, if he's ended our M, then maybe I just need to suck it up, let the D happen or even file for it myself.
H brushed me off like dandruff. Perhaps I need to do that too.
Hanging on to someone,on any level, who can do that to another person ( and their own children!) and be so blase', matter of fact and unconcerned about it doesn't appear to have done any of the posters here much good considering the circumstances of MLC. On the surface it looks like a bad investment.
Easier to believe he's dead to me, a stranger I never really knew that used me. H. hopes we can find a friendship.

I thought we had one, and that's part of what created our M.

I don't know if I'm capable of being a friend to someone who has lied, backstabbed and treated me as he has. Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice shame on me.

I have forgiven him for leaving, I don't know that I can forgive him staying away and not seeking out help for his issues and hurting our children this way...the same way he was hurt as child.

I have empathy for his pain, I feel for the child inside the man that's hurting so much right now. That part of me struggles with the need to protect myself and my children.

I live my life as if my M is over, because it is in all but the legal sense. I still wear my ring, because it still means something to me. For me, after a relationship with a man for over 30 years, 3 kids and a lot of trials and tribulations that we overcame, you don't "give-up" after a few years of he&$. Will I reach the point some day where I will file to get it over with, maybe, but I'm not there yet, and I'm not going to put a timeframe on it. Because it is not right for ME.

Yes, we have to do what's right for us and in line with our values. I'm trying to figure out what mine are deep down.

I still have a long way to go (I am still learning who I am and what makes me happy), but each day brings a little more peace, a little more acceptance and a little more clarity. The thing is, I still love my H. I don't love what he's done, and at times don't love who he is NOW - but I still don't feel that THIS is him.

It's hard, but be patient. Stop focusing on your H, and focus on YOU and your kids. Find what makes you happy and learn how to not define yourself by the success or failure of your marriage (still working on this too). Don't watch the clock. Take each week, day, hour, minute or second as it comes. Do what is right for you and no one else. Love your kids and be there for them during this EXTREMELY difficult time for them. They will be looking to you for strength. They will be looking to you for stability and most of all will be looking at how you handle this. Do your best to handle each day as it comes with dignity. Do not REACT or RESPOND no matter how hard it is and in the end, however it ends (D or a restored M) you will have no regrets.[

Thank you for the advice and your response. I'm so sorry our situations are so close. I will do my best, it's all I can do.