But that is a standard response from most C's who do the standard thing. It should be no surprise to anyone here. They are just looking after their clients interest and wouldn't be aware of DB techniques or goals. If the C is good on a personal level i would keep him/her.
About the grandma and family. Be upfront. Tell them your side of the story, its your family. Its better to get this things in the open, less stressful.
You're right FOBD, that list is reversible. Heck, a WAW, D and living 10 years apart is reversible. But you thinking that way shows you are not detached. I know its still early for you and speaking for me (10 years ago) detaching was extremely difficult. You must detach and GAL. When W finds that the grass isnt so green over there she will be curious and want to see what you are up to. Make sure when she calls or stops in she sees this happy, vibrant, attractive guy having a blast at life. It can be done, and should be done for your sanity imho. Detach man, learn to detach.
As far as dating other women. Go for it when you are ready. Only you will know when you are comfortable with it.
#1, #2 and #11 really sting to me, but in my current sitch none of those things have happened yet. I also agree though that none of them are deal breakers, and I also agree that I don't see the point in filing for D. Why make it easier for HER?
Also, I'm not a huge fan of C's. The one I was going to was an idiot, she kept notes but didn't have them available when I came for my next appointment. When I told her I was done I mentioned that I had taken the step to deal with my mother like she suggested - and she left me a rambling message about "if you want to goto your M for C I guess that's your choice". I'm like, this bitch doesn't remember anything about me or what we talked about!! So like others have said if you feel like you have a good connection to your C, where there is mutual discussion then I would keep going to him - does he let you disagree with him?
I posted an update in my thread, felt like some positive progress but I could just be reading too much into things. My W seems like she's ona bit of an emotional roller coaster at the moment so I'm never exactly sure what I will get.
She is stuck on the fact that "ILYBNILWY", she doesn't see how any amount of trying will fix it or if you have that feeling should you even try to fix it.
I have at least 3 months before we'll have to make a decision about selling the house - I think her trip away for a week will be really telling. Baby steps is all I can expect, and I need to show her that I'm strong, confident and a man that she should want to be with.
BITS SIC
Me - 34 W - 33 M - 8 years T - 15 years D7, D5, D2 Bomb Nov 10/2010 "I'm not happy and INILWY" W Staying for the kids Mar 13/2011
Do you want a divorce? I don't think you do still. If you don't, can you please find a new C? You need someone on board with the techniques that you are using and that are taught here. As you rightly pointed out, everything is reversible that you stated here. Everything. You need to be supported. You deserve to be supported because what you are doing is very difficult. I think the divorce rate is so high because people give up so easily. Both people. This is not you. So find some support that will help you through that.
I understand what you are saying about missing the affection. I fall asleep with my cats in my arms which is just so pitiful to me when I think about it. Here's the thing, you're not ready to date. Not by a long shot. You are still committed to this thing. And right now any dating would be in response to loneliness rather than a true desire to date. Get it out of your head for now.
As far as your list goes, I don't think I could so it any better than 2step who clearly took a lot of time with you to walk through it.
Listen, being friends, it is so positive!!!! Heck, most of us were friends with our spouses long before we started dating them. So basically you're going back to the beginning. I think that is great because there are people here who can't get their because their spouses won't let them. So, yeah, it's a big deal that you're there. Big deal.
Don't give up. You're not ready and it's not time. Let her sit it out in her new apt. I think that is going to wear off. Let's see if the grass is greener.
I don't think the C is telling him to file because he wants to dissolve the M. I think it is more of a tactic to take control back. Correct me if I am wrong FOBD
I'm still thinking it's a bad idea. I think that could backfire badly. I don't think you should engage in that type of game of chicken unless you're prepared to deal with the consequences. Of course, I'm here so obviously I'm no expert.
This is from a poster called Futureunknown. Does this seem a little counter-intuitive to you guys? Do you see the results of his actions and behavior? Do what works.
Quote:
Quote: Perhaps because attraction is primal and subconscious, she realised something was wrong but couldn't quite work out what it was.
My W is a marriage and family therapist, and she is clueless as to where her feelings of attraction comes from, at least consciously. I think most marriage counselors are, which is why marriage counseling has such a dismal track record. They only work on those secondary things that require the base attraction to be there. Would be pretty hard for a marriage counselor to advise a husband whose wife is demonstrating walk away tendencies to flip the tables and tell the wife that the marriage isn't working for him, that he deserves a loving partner, and that HE'S starting to doubt the future of the marriage! No, the marriage counselor wants everyone to talk about feelings, R talk, R talk, and more R talk. The whole while the LBH is breaking down his emotional walls to express himself more and more, while WAW is feeling more and more like "Yuck! Get me outta here!"
So funny the things my W has said to me during this whole ordeal. After I had completely cut off from her for a few months, after I made her feel the pain of losing me, she asked me to meet her to talk. Her attraction to me was oozing out of her. She said "You are so nice now. The way you hold yourself is so much more confident and attractive." This is after I had been completely snubbing and ignoring her for months. Then in the middle of our talk she came over to me and started kissing me passionately, right in the restaurant. Extremely out of character for her. When I later asked her about that she said "I couldn't believe how much I wanted to kiss you. I just couldn't stop myself!"
Quote: I read somewhere recently not sure if it was a thread here may even have been RobX.....'if you're stacking the dishwasher and your wife thinks you're doing it wrong, how would she act if she was attracted to you, and how would she act if she wasn't?' I believe the reaction would be different in both cases....If there is attraction, it would mean very little....if not, it could be used to batter you.
Exactly! If a woman is feeling that attraction, her man can do no wrong. If she's not feeling the attraction, and especially if she also feels trapped with him, he can do no right.
M22,H45,W45 S21/18D12 Retain faith that you will prevail in the end, regardless of the difficulties and at the same time confront the most brutal facts of your current reality, whatever they might be.
I think everyone who has responded has made some very intelligent responses. Great advice that I am even going to take with me the closer I get to my own D date.
IMHO, I don't think D is ever the right answer unless there is abuse and/or addiction and that the S perfers that lifestyle over the marriage. Having said that, I also believe that you sometimes have to let the D happen so that the WAW has the most clarity they can ever have. It is the most intense game of chicken you can play, but when the LBS is fully out of the picture, there is no one left to blame, criticize, badger, nag etc. The WAW will (hopefully) have to start looking within themselves and hopefully start taking some accountabily. Does it mean they will come back? No, but you have presented yourself in a much stronger, attractive, positive stance. Your WAW spouse always thought you week and needy - that YOUR life wouldn't function without them. Problems are portable, affairs are transient. Moving into a new apt, getting a new haircut etc. is NOT going to fix the problems within them. They are just another mask much like alcohol. I think you need to let it take it's course even if D is the way you choose. Your W will indeed realize that one day YOU are the greener grass and YOU will have the option of whether or not you want to be that greener grass.
As far as dating goes, I don't think that's a wise idea either. It would be for the wrong reasons and you don't want to hurt someone. The loneliness is hard - nights are expecially tough, but try and keep busy the best you can. You shouldn't date out of loneliness it only reiterates that you are needy and you haven't done all this work to go back to what wasn't working!
Stay strong and I will continue to follow your story!
Peace and Hugs!
BITS
M: 48, H: 42 Kids: 0 T: 20 yrs M: 16 yrs. (H's 1st, my 2nd) WAS/MLC: 12/7/09-I'm not the wife HE deserved Came home per L: 12/26/09, Left again: 2/6/10 Served: 10/21/10, D FINAL: 6/15/11
Are you suggesting that you agree with his C that he should file for D?
What FOBD's C is suggesting is the 'after the LRT' technique in MWD's DR book. FOBD is NOT in that position yet... IMHO.
FOBD - Like I said last night, I think that you should think long and hard about some of the advice your C is giving you. I've said this a number of times on this board, but when someone wants to shoot you in the head, you don't hand them the gun!
I think that's what filing for D can be when it's not what you want. You want to buy as much TIME as possible so that you give your W to come to her senses.
That doesn't mean that you don't detach or that you can't dark again for a while... But actually filing for the D??? I don't know man, just a week ago you were journaling how much you love this woman and want her back...
My 2 cents...
BITS!! Denver
Little love Dbmod???
M 43 X 38 T 13 W moves out of home 11/2010 Roller coaster from hell 2/2011-5/2012 I request divorce 5/2012 W moves home 6/2012 Good time 7/2012 - 1/2015 I leave 3/2016 process of divorce
Denver, 2step, MJ, Forrest, Dixie, Lostinlife, Xabian, Scared, Lost, Coach, Zengypsy and dbmod -- Thank you so very much to all of you. I can't tell you how nice it is to get on here and find so many responses. It really does help with feeling so lonely. You guys are the best and I am happy to have my BITS around!
OK, here we go. UPDATE: You all know I left her a message last night that we needed to talk. She never called. She didn't even call today. She finally called tonight around 7pm. She was a bit freaked because she could not answer the calls coming from my grandmother. She is all worried that my grandmother is going to think she is a "b*tch (her words, not mine)." I assured her that I would visit my GM on Sunday and tell her the news. She went on and on worrying about what my GM would think. I continued to politely assure her I would take care of everything. Then she proceeds to tell me that she was sorry that she didn't call last night, but she had a female coworker over to help her decorate her new place and the friend left close to midnight. NICE!!! Let me get this straight??? That is why you couldn't call me for five minutes to talk about the GM she has loved for 15 years??? Because you had a friend over??!?!? OK, FOBD, deep relaxing breaths...
Anyway, the rest of the conversation was her proudly telling me that she is going to spend this weekend shopping for new stuff and that she was hooking up a new wireless modem in her apartment. So, she seems to be happily flaunting it in my face that she is getting settled. Again... nice, my love. She wants to come over on Saturday to get her stereo and to return some things she borrowed for the move. I told her I would have to see what the weekend held before I would commit to anything. Folks, I still love her so much. But I have known her for 15 years and I am not an idiot. I can tell when she is trying to push my buttons and it is starting to piss me off. (Deep breaths, buddy. Deep breaths!) Since she got back from her trip to Canada in October (where the EA started), she has been really manipulative and kind of a jerk at times. But, I will press on.
OK, now to the stuff you guys sent to me:
2step, the hand is very sore and discolored. I think the knuckle on my index finger may be in trouble. We will see. At least the bleeding stopped on Sunday. None the less, thanks for asking. Yes, from this point forward, I am making a promise to all my BITS... no more punching things!
Forrest, I like your style and I do want to answer your questions:
1) Definitely #1. That is a huge "no no" in my book. But, I do admit that it happened right after the S and she was probably looking for some sort of attention. I don't think it has gone PA as he lives in Canada and we live in a Gulf Coast state. In time, I will let this go. It is just too fresh right now.
2) My C is concerned about her "games" because he thinks that her level of instability is a bit too high and that she could be setting herself up for a serious fall. Also, he is worried about how her B/S is effecting me. Remember, he thinks I am paying him to protect me. He is just doing his job.
(Many of you are concerned about his advice. I don't blame you. As I have stated before, he is kind of a drill instructor. But, he is very good at his job. He was highly recommended and is very popular. I have to book two weeks in advance for every session. And, he makes me think about things in way I never did before. I do throw out some of his advice from time to time. For example, after she pulled that stunt in November, he told me to change the locks. I didn't and that was a good thing. I think that would have made things worse. But, I can't lie. At times, I have thought about finding a C that is more into saving my marriage instead of saving me.)
3) The nice lunch with the pretty lady was just that, lunch. The thought of my W dating right now would destroy me, so why do I think I have the right to do the same thing to her. So, dating for me is OUT right now, without question. I wanted your opinions on this and I value it. Thank you for setting me straight. That is why I come here.
2step and Denver, I like the way you dissected my list also. Your logic is sound. The list means nothing. All of it can be reversed. If you submit a change of address form and change your mind, you just submit another one, right? Nothing here is detrimental to her return, should there be one. She is just getting her life in order and I should not let it bother me.
Now, this part goes out to the group. As for filing the LS and eventual D to protect me, that is a liability thing. In my state, if you file six months after S, you are not liable for their actions or debt retro back to the date that one spouse abandoned the marriage. So, right now, while S'ed, I am still on the hook for anything stupid she might do. If she goes out tonight, gets drunk and hits something causing herself to get sued, I am liable. That is mainly what I am concerned about. Since she left, she has already opened a line of credit with her dentist to pay for some work she could not afford. Guess what? I am on the hook for that should she default.
Now, that is from the legal perspective. From the personal perspective, I waiver from day to day. But, Denver, you are right. Two weeks ago I would have walked through fire to save this woman. I would have taken a bullet to the head for her. I need to remember this and take some time to really figure out what is best for me. On March 6th, I can file for legal S, so I still have some time to DB. Honestly, I love you guys and I don't want to lie to you. I have been thinking about this very seriously, but thinking is as far as I am going to go right now. Scout's honor!
Today was a bad day. I broke down in the car on the way home. Ever since I moved from anger to acceptance, I have been much more emotional and unstable. But, that is to be expected.
I do think I want to work with a DB coach. Would either dbmod or Coach send me some details on how to get this going. Deep in my heart, I still think my W just really wants a break from us. You know, in almost five months of S, just has repeatedly claimed it is over and has moved out. But not once, not once, has she used the word DIVORCE in front of me. And she still got upset when I asked for the rings back. If she was done and ready to completely kill our M, why in the heck would she care about our rings. For right now, she seems to be perfectly fine with this purgatory we are in.... I hate it. But I love her and I will wait. What else can I do?
BITS, you are the best. I hope all of you have the very best day tomorrow.
FOBD
Me: 39 W: 36 T: 15 yrs M: 9 yrs S: 09/10
So you can get on with your search, baby And I can get on with mine And maybe someday we will find, That it wasn't really wasted time...
