Albuquerque living part 2: Road to recovery?

[Albuquerque]

Journaling,

Just got off phone with H. Conversation went very very badly. He sounded depressed when I started. I guess my obvious issues were causing him some angst. He wanted to know why I was upset.

I was very blunt and kind of wish I wasnt but at the same time, feel like I need to be. I told him that the DC question prompted some insecurities in me. My trust had been shot and it raised those questions. It also raised some of the hurt and betrayal I felt about OW. Told him that I was a bit unprepared for the emotions and that's why I felt I needed to work out my issues.

It was clear that my statement upset him greatly. To the point where I think he was almost mad at me. He said he greatly misinterpreted my state of mind or where I was in the process. I was calm but firm. I said that I didn't feel that was accurate. I have always been honest in where I was and nothing in the situation had changed. But that question did bring up some issues in my mind that I had to deal with. *I* had to deal with. Yet he remained tacitly upset. I told him that I had ALWAYS been dealing with these emotions and issues. And that on occasion I'm going to have a down day and that there will be bumps in the road. He said he WASN'T expecting bumps in the road like this. I told him that the way I saw it, our old M was over. The new M can be fantastic, but there is some rubble in the way before we can rebuild. He has rubble to deal with in tying up loose ends with OW, working through his feelings etc. He's not even back in the house yet. And I have issues also. And don't think it's unreasonable if I occasionally have a down day.

He wanted to know (kind of in a mad way) if he needs to NOT ask certain questions or try to avoid questions that might cause problems. I said absolutely not. No more than he should not ask me what is bothering me when I have a down day. I told him that the minute we start censoring ourselves or avoiding difficult questions, that's the moment we move back to the old M. We did that before. We made assumptions about things and avoided certain topics because we "assumed" it would cause issues and just chose to avoid them. I don't want that.

The call still didn't end well. He said he needed time to think through things. My only regret is in discussing the pain of the OW. It was real and it hurts, but I don't think he was mentally ready for that. I only said it to kind of make him understand why I got so upset, but realize I could have done so without TOTALLY mentioning the extent of the pain. So I think I did screw up there. But otherwise, I feel OK with my end. I just don't feel OK with his response. I will give him the space but given the tenuous nature of our new R, I can't help but feel some angst now. Just one more thing I have to learn to deal with.

[irishblessings]

Alb -
First - give yourself a break. Part of the angst of the LBS is the constant critiquing of what we should or shouldn't say or do. The bottom line is your H is an MLCr and you fell into the old pattern of believing you could have a sane/rational conversation with him and that he can demonstrate normal emotions.

Let it go - move forward -
IB

[hope for zen]

I was just catching up on your sitch. It sounds like you have been doing a great job. It is hard to express your pain when the other person takes it as a sign of weakness or a personal attack. Be kind to yourself. Your H seems to see how well you have been doing and hopes to get some of your confidence and strength by osmossis. It doesn't work that way though. You have to do your own work. You can't borrow someone else's.

[ericmsant2]

Alb,

I have been at this for close to 15 months now and have never come close to where you are at in the process so I may not be the best person to provide direction/advice. Having said this, I will give you my thoughts. Do with them as you will.

First, you continue to amaze me and please take a step back and accept and acknowledge all of the work that you have done. This stuff is not easy and I can only imagine what it would be like to try and restore trust yet you appear to be very thoughtful in your approach. It shows me how much work you have done on yourself. So whatever happens – YOU SHOULD BE PROUD!

Given where you are with your sitch I almost feel like a worthwhile investment may be to purchase some DB coaching sessions. I think you can purchase 3 phone sessions for a couple of hundred bucks. It may be worth the investment. Another option would be to post over in the “piecing board” and see if you can secure some ideas from some of the vets that have pieced. From what I have been able to read – piecing is harder than dealing with an MLCer in replay so you’ll probably want to center yourself and get yourself emotionally ready for the “real work” ahead of you.

I feel I need to go back to IC or maybe discuss starting MC with H

As for this ^^^^ I am sure it would not hurt to set up some IC sessions for yourself to help YOU work through some of the issues that you are trying to work through. IMHO, it is normal to have the insecurity issues that you, to your credit are facing head on. So knowing this is normal please cut yourself a little slack.

As for MC sessions, you may want to consider some of the 1 – 3 day intense counseling sessions i.e. retro Ville, new beginnings (which I hear is excellent) etc. However, I would really vet this out with some DB vets to see what they have to say.

Finally, with MLC everything takes time…a long time and you know this so, as much as you probably want to move forward with a certain degree of speed…taking your time is probably your best bet. I will try and reach out to some DB vets off board and see if they can pop over and provide you with some advice.

FWIW, I think you are doing extremely well. Slow….Alb…take it slow…

I wish I could offer more but you’re a smart cookie and I’m positive that at the end of the day you will shine with whatever approach you take.

God Bless,
Eric

[Albuquerque]

IB and Zen,

Thanks for your kind words. They really meant a lot. It's great to have a forum like this to occasionally vent frustrations and hear from people who truly understand.

Eric,

I always welcome your thoughts/advice. Your idea about the DB coaches is a good one. I may just do that. I also will probably set up an IC appt but may refrain from telling H right now. He seems to be upset to realize that I am actually human. He sent me an email early this morning.

Hiya -

This will probably sound a little silly. I've seen such profound, positive growth in you over the last few months, that it really took me by surprise that you would have bumps along the way. You have seemed "normal" about things, as far as that can be defined. I guess what I meant by "misrepresenting yourself" was the thought that everything that I have come to admire and like about you was just a front, and that underneath you were still broken. That really scared me, because I don't want to slip into the same patterns that we've been in before.

I don't feel like this situation is that similar to what happened before. (He's talking about his previous affair almost 10 years ago) I thought you felt that way as well. But if your reactions to things end up being the same reactions, then what is the difference, really?

I know that it's a work in progress, and a bumpy road. As dumb as it sounds, I thought you had your bumps ironed out, which was going to help me smooth out my own bumps.

That said, you have seemed a lot more sure of yourself up until a week or so ago. I'm a little worried that I might be causing undue stress and discomfort. Maybe you really are better off compartmentalized and separate from me. I don't know. I think we should really explore that idea before we go too much further.



I've already responded. The response would be a bit too long to post but I basically told him that I am human, I have my down days, but know that I am strong enough to make it through them and end up stronger on the other side. I have been having down days this whole time. It's just that now he's around to see them and they clearly scare him. I also told him that if every mistep of mine is going to scare him and make him think that things will "go back to the way they were" then that is a recipe for failure.

I also said that through this process, we are both going to have times where we need our space to think. And that that's OK and healthy. We can't always be telling each other EVERY thought process going on because as evidenced today, sometimes it's just not that helpful. I think the fact that I harbored pain and betrayal about the affair was a revelation to him. I told him that I understood we had very different mindsets at the time. And I understand his feelings on the situation and that they are valid and real. But that he must realize my feelings may be different but they are no less valid or real. Just different. And despite that, I'm still wanting to move forward. It just will require work on my part. I can no sooner ask him to adjust his feelings about the OW than he can adjust mine. It is what it is and we move forward.

From what I have been able to read – piecing is harder than dealing with an MLCer in replay so you’ll probably want to center yourself and get yourself emotionally ready for the “real work” ahead of you.

I'm really starting to see this and see that it's very real. In order to move forward, a lot of issues need to be tackled. Yet, H is still in MLC mode and still sees a lot of things through his haze. He's moved forward a lot and I've seen a lot of growth, but he still has a tremendous amount of anxiety and depression. I will definitely take your recommendation and pop into the piecing forum as well. I can use all the help I can get.

Looks like I picked a good weekend to go camping. Will help me get re-centered emotionally.

[TAMF]

Al - First, I am so glad that you are camping this weekend. You NEED to do something so your mind can relax. I hope you are having great time.

Secondly, I KNOW EXACTLY WHAT YOU ARE FEELING RIGHT NOW!!!!!! When I went to breakfast with my H last week and he told me that he had actually had the conversation with the OW that it should end, he said that he told her that in the big picture the easiest people to hurt in this situation was him and her. He said that he couldn't give her what she wanted, which was a family. I said that he couldn't anyway, he has been "fixed". He then said that if he had it reversed and at his age (37) they would have a 50% of getting pregnant. I almost died right then. I said, "you looked into this? you actually contimplated having a family with this girl?" he said yes, but that was a long time ago. I kept my mouth shut. Then he kept talking about how us getting back together was the right thing and that it was about the girls. He needed to be with his girls. He didn't want to hurt the OW, but having children with her wouldn't be fair to our girls.

I just kept thinking...what about me?! And I know that he has real feelings for this girl, but children?!!! This really freaked me out.

We got in the car and I said that it was hard to hear him talk about coming back to me for every reason but me. He kind of got mad and said - what do you want from me? I said it was all okay, every girl just wants to hear that the reason is because you love me. Then he said that I had to understand that our girls were his top priority. Which I agreed! but I just didn't want him to come back JUST for the girls.

He said that it wasn't just for the girls...it was for a million different reasons. All of which point to us trying to work out our problems. He said, "I DO love you, we just have a lot to work on"

Remember he also asked at this point if he would be able to still talk to her - to make sure she was ok.

So I really think this is part of the MLC. Remember the OW is the way they self medicate. The idea of not having that support there for them I think terrifies them. It's an emotional crutch.

Also, his reaction to your "bumps in the road" is just like my H too! CLONES that they are! My H said, I NEED you to be strong. I can't be around you when you get emotional, because it makes me feel horrible, so much guilt. He begged me to be strong and as happy as I can be. This positive attitude from me is what is helping to get him through this.

This is going to be a long hard road to go down.

[Albuquerque]

Journaling,

My camping trip was great. D and I enjoyed ourselves and learned a lot. We look forward to our next trip. When I first arrived at the campsite, I was still kind of reeling from the previous day's occurrences. I had sent H response email and never heard back from H. I was VERY curious about his thoughts but opted not to ask. Instead, I acted "as if" I was OK with everything. And in a way, I was. We hadn't really had an argument. And my email response to him wasn't argmentative, just more of explaining my position. And it certainly didn't warrant a response. So the more I thought about it, the less it worried me. So I sent H a few brief texts letting him know we'd arrived. We sent a few friendly texts back and forth but didn't really say much.

Once we returned home, I gave him a call and let him know we'd arrived. I also gave him a rundown on how D did (given that this was her first camping experience). The conversation flowed well and wasn't in the least bit awkward. But it still felt as though H had a bit of a barrier up. Part of the rollercoast ride I suppose.

On Monday, we had our normal sushi dinner. H was friendly and chatty, but there still seemed to be a barrier. Unlike other dinners, there wasn't any physical contact (ie brief hand hold) during dinner. We are still doing things hidden from view of D. Turned out that I had to go out of town the following day which would require my H to take D to school the next morning. Because of that, my H asked D whether she'd prefer if he stayed the night at our home (on the couch) or whether she wanted to spend the night at his place. She opted for his place. Therefore, we all drove home so D could gather some overnight supplies. As she went to gather her stuff together, all of the sudden, H grabs me, makes out with me passionately and says that he's bummed he wasn't staying the night at home. I told him I was bummed too. So he ended up telling D that plans were changed and he'd stay on the couch. Once D went to bed, so did we. I'll forgo the specifics since I'm sure it's obvious. But I found what happened afterwards kind of interesting. I told H he was welcome to fall asleep in the bed but he opted to go back to the couch because he said "it's still a little weird". So I said goodnight and fell asleep. About 15 minutes later, he came back to the room, hopped into bed and snuggled up to me telling me how much he missed that. I happily fell asleep once again. Then about an hour later, he left and went back to the couch.

In the morning, he told me he hadn't gotten any sleep and he had left at night because he didn't want to keep me up. What I found interesting about the whole thing was just seeing how "not together" he has it in regards to me. He seemingly keeps his distance at dinner and attacks me at home. Then he leaves the bed because of weirdness but then is back after only a few minutes. MLC=confusion indeed.

The following days have been much the same. He's aloof one minute, then sending me naughty texts the next. I'm just rolling with it and not taking anything too personally (which is sometimes hard to do). I'll continue to let him determine the pacing. He's mentioned several times that perhaps him moving back sooner rather than later will help D with her issues. She has recently been diagnosed with depression of her own and has just started on some meds. I told him that I'm sure she'd be happier, but I don't think it would fix her issues. So I continue to not have a clue as to when he plans to move back.

H mentioned to me that it must suck to have to deal with TWO people who are battling depression. I didn't say anything. But it sure isn't easy. I'm thankful that I have the ability to find happiness from within. It's something I've talked to H about at length and he just doesn't understand how finding happiness from within is possible. And yet, when he talks to D about her issues, he finds himself repeating TO HER, the same things I've told HIM. He mentioned that the other day. He says it's often easier to see the failings in others than yourself but dealing with D's depression is making him realize a lot about himself.

He'll be out of town again for the next few days so our contact will be limited. Just as all of you, I'll continue to take each day as it comes and get as much joy as I can out of each one.

[ShantillyLace]

It would appear you are on the right track. Hoping the best for you

[Albuquerque]

Journaling,

Not much new to report other than H is still really confused. He went out of town for a few days last week. We were in contact a lot via IM, texting, calls etc. He was pretty flirty and in the evenings, he was all bemoaning the distance between us because the sexual tension was getting kind of high. Needless to say, I was looking forward to his return on Friday. He arrived back in town at the same time as dinner was ready and I invited him over if he hadn't eaten. He came over and enjoyed a nice dinner with me and D. But despite a short little make out session at the end of the evening, he seemed insistent on leaving and going back to his place rather than spending a few extra hours at the house. I was very tired anyhow and didn't mind too much. He asked me to update him on what the plan was on Saturday.

So on Saturday morning, I told him my plans with D and that he was welcome to join. He didn't call until around 3pm, long after D and I had already had our fun. I had a short chat with him where I'm pretty sure he unintentionally mistook me for OW. We were talking about movies that we might want to watch and he was looking online to see what Netflix movies were available to stream. He mentioned one to me as if I should know it. I said I didn't know what it was. He asked, "I thought you watched it and said you hated it?". I told him no. Then he kind of backtracked and said "I thought you did, maybe that was someone else I was talking to".

It didn't really bother me. It's bound to happen. But I think it bothered him. Because even though he had originally planned to take D and I out to dinner, he contacted me about an hour later and said that he didn't know if he'd be up for dinner because he started having some anxiety issues and wasn't feeling great. I told him that was fine and that I hoped he felt better. An hour after that, he said he was feeling better and we DID end up going out to dinner. Dinner was good and H was kind of affectionate towards me even in view of D which was a bit surprising. It was subtle though so I don't know if she noticed. But once again, in the evening, he seemed to really just need to go back home.

On Sunday, he had stated he would come over to watch a sporting event with us on TV. By mid-afternoon, 30 minutes AFTER it started, I finally texted him to see if he was still coming because it would affect my pizza order. He asked when the event started and I told him 30 minutes ago. He seemed surprised and ended up coming over, but I could tell he had been sleeping. And it was 2 in the afternoon. And yet again, once the event was over, he seemed to rush off. He made a not so subtle remark that he should come over for a "nooner" tomorrow but I reminded him that D was out of school all week for the holidays. Shortly after leaving, he texted me and said "Sorry for leaving so abruptly " I told him "no worries"

Haven't heard from him since then. I have opted to give him space these last few days. Clearly he's still troubled. He may still be getting contact from OW (or perhaps initiating). I'm not sure how well the "ending it" has been working. The hardest thing about reconciling is figuring out when to treat H like the MLCer he is and when to be a bit proactive about the R. I've given him some space over the weekend but I think today I will at least ask if he wants to talk and mention that I could see he had a rough weekend.

[TAMF]

hey girlfriend - sounds like a busy weekend. How is D doing with school? She is really lucky to have a mom that does so much with her, I can tell the two of you are very close.

Major point of frustration, this together / not really together part of your reconciliation...sounds like you are taking it a day at a time which is about all you can do. Hope it doesn't cause too much stress, don't want you getting more headaches.

Today I just feel like saying, "Men Suck".