Hummm, that sounds encouraging, don't you think? We know how to entice and not cling, don't we? Keep him wanting to talk to you longer by sounding positive, upbeat,on the run to GAL,.....
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
H called tonight to ask if he could come see the kids. I told him they had 30 minutes before bedtime and he said if I didn't mind he'd bathe them and put them to bed. I was wearing a new sexy dress and boots - he didn't seem to notice. We chatted a little about work and he brought up college football. When the kids were in bed he asked if we could talk and then started discussing the division of assets. I'm proud of myself - at times I had tears running down my face, but I kept my voice calm and did not get angry or overly upset.
I told him that I fully own 50% of our problems (he said he owned his 50% too) but that I feel the divorce is his choice and I take no responsibility for that decision. He told me that it is a consequence of our problems, so I share responsibility for that. I disagreed and shared with him that I had almost left him several times before (something he did not know) but always stayed to work on our marriage because I believed in us, and that I had expected him to do the same. He looked like an aggravated little boy at that.
I told him that since I felt our problems were fixable, I was unwilling to go to a lawyer together and say that I had given up on our relationship. He was free to file on his own, but in that case I would get my own lawyer, and, since I feel the divorce is unnecessary, I gave him a choice: he could pay for my lawyer, or I would pay for the lawyer and he would agree to attend - and participate in - 5 sessions of marriage counseling. I thought for sure he'd immediately say he'd pay my lawyer. Instead, he told me that he thought it unlikely that I'd convince anyone that he should pay the lawyer. Then he asked what I expected to get out of counseling. I told him that I wanted a) the self-respect of knowing that I did everything I could to save this relationship, b) the ability to look into our children's eyes and tell THEM I'd done everything I could, c) the opportunity to further recognize my role in our problems so that I could address my own issues, and d) the miniscule possibility that he might delay signing the divorce papers. He asked if I would agree to limit the scope of the sessions to only rehashing what we had each done wrong and I said no, that while the first one or two sessions would need to identify our mistakes, I was unwilling to say what the latter ones should look like. He agreed to go, provided I acknowledge that he had zero desire to work on our marriage and that the counseling was not going to change his mind (and I did not break down at this!). I validated that there are some big issues in our marriage, that I don't want to return to the one we had either, and that he may be right that either he or I is unable to make the changes necessary to fix those. I also said that I personally would not believe any "talk" from him of change; that I'd have to see it, and that he probably felt the same way about me. (his response - that's true, so what's the point of counseling?)
He told me that he feels no anger or resentment toward me anymore, that it is just apathy (not a good sign!) - however, he does get angry every time I suggest that he fully owns the decision to end our marriage, and he is angry sometimes when he's not clear on what I'm trying to say (feels like one of our patterns sometimes). Is that normal?
He thinks part of my ideas of the asset division is not "fair". I said that I understand why he might think that, and tried to explain my thoughts. He got angry at one point, and I validated that I understood why he was upset but that I did not want to have this discussion if both of us could not be calm. I finally asked him to leave so that we could discuss the issue later.
I did ask him if he was having any second thoughts two weeks (when we chatted like best friends, for 30 min he agreed we'd just be separated before changing his mind, and then his "no matter what happens" speech about the wedding pictures) and he said absolutely not with a really cold look on his face.
I'm not in nearly as many pieces as I thought I would be. I think I surprised him with my stance on the lawyer, and he certainly surprised me by agreeing to attend counseling. I'm not sure what to think of that - is he that cheap? Now that he knows I won't go to the lawyer with him, I don't know whether to expect him to file for divorce right away or wait until the asset division is worked out. Once he files, the divorce will go through in about 60 days ...
I'm confused now on whether to continue to try to engage him or not. He doesn't end a phone call first, he talks to me like a friend most of the time, but still, here I am talking about assets???
One of the things H and I talked about last night was that he thinks we are both too stubborn and that leads to a lot of arguments. I think a lot of this was me being insecure and unable to let anything go because I'd think "if he doesn't do it the way I want when I feel strongly about something then he doesn't love me." And that led to a downward spiral. This is something I recognize now, and I'll work with my IC to change that, but how can I show him that 180? The only thing we're really at odds about right now is pieces of the divorce settlement, and I'm not going to give up my rights just to make him happy. We've resolved every disagreement about furniture and "stuff" very easily.
How do I keep acting happy around him when one part of me just wants to inflict as much bodily harm on him as I can? I'm trying to deal with changing bills into my name today, and it's flat-out impossible to do at a lot of companies. So now I get to deal with a two-day television outage because HE decided to move out and the satellite contract is in his name. I get to answer the questions from the kids, to explain why they don't get to see Daddy every day. I have to explain to our friends/acquaintances that we aren't together anymore when they ask about him (he hasn't even told most of the people he works with). I don't get to spend half of the time with the kids because HE wasn't willing to work on our marriage anymore. I'm sooo angry....
H sent a few emails today about initial discussions over financial settlement and child custody things we had talked about Tuesday. I responded that I preferred to discuss in person. I thought it interesting that he does not want to include a morality clause (this is a deal-breaker for me) because he never wants to get married again and does not want to say that he can't have a serious relationship for the next 17 years. That's your choice, H, and your problem. It was a house rule that unmarried couples couldn't sleep in same bed here after our kids were born, and I'm not changing that rule because he is suddenly afraid of commitment.
Also said he's only agreeing to go to the first counseling session, and then he'll see.
An hour after the emails H called D4. I let her answer the phone, heard her say goodbye, she called for me to hang it up, and lo and behold he was still on the phone. I asked if he needed anything, he said no, then gave a follow-up comment on something he had said in one of the emails, then asked what time he is supposed to be at D's dance recital on Saturday. I made a joke about one thing then said goodbye. Why is he not hanging up after he talks to D? Next time I think I'm not going to check to see if he is on the phone and just hang it up.
I agree an outlet for your anger is a necessary thing...
You were doing great when things seemed to be going positivly, but as soon as things changed a bit, you started to get angry...
While it is natural to feel that emotion, and it is easy to get discouraged in this process...
Don't let your anger ruin the good work and positive steps you have made...
I don't have access to his email or phone anymore, but he used to hand me his phone regularly (up to the day before he moved out) while he was driving (so I could play games) and I'd browse his text history. There was nothing off about any of them.
I write long letters to H about why he's being stupid and how angry and hurt I am, and then I shred them. My shredder is getting quite a workout! I don't think he has a clue how angry I am, which makes me proud, because one of my personal goals is to work on how I react to situations when I am angry. It's okay to feel angry, it is okay to object to calmly object to decisions that I disagree with, but it is not okay to yell at him, call him names, or give away his stuff. So far I'm doing pretty well in person.
I think I'm angry now because I finally decided (again) to take back a little control of my life and start handling things like organizing house repairs, bills, etc. I'm angry that I have to take the effort, and live with the ensuing disruption, because of his choice.
I'm also angry because I feel like he IS cake-eating - he talks to me more than is neccessary while at the same time emailing me the next steps he wants to take for divorce. He agrees to go to one session of marriage counseling (Dec 8), but says he won't go back if we start talking about ways that could fix our problems - he just wants to help me identify the issues so I have closure.
I worry that the reason I'm engaging him is because I'm not ready to say goodbye to the friendly conversation part of our relationship, which was always good. And I suspect that may be why he responds - because that's the one part of the R that he still enjoyed. I'm not prepared to have that with him when we are no longer married.
I think I may take the original advice and pull back more - not check to see if he's on the phone after he talks to D, not allow him to help put the kids to bed at my house (if you don't want to live here, then you aren't part of the routines here), and D can make muffins for him at his house and I will eat the ones she makes here
]I write long letters to H about why he's being stupid and how angry and hurt I am, and then I shred them. My shredder is getting quite a workout!
This is a very good idea, however it also keeps the thoughts cycling around in your head. How about other outlets, ones that are more about trying to change the anger into something constructive...
Running, cleaning (I clean like a banshee when I am angry), household projects, kickboxing. Something where you can see concrete results that will make you happy in the end...
Originally Posted By: CajunRose
I think I'm angry now because I finally decided (again) to take back a little control of my life and start handling things like organizing house repairs, bills, etc. I'm angry that I have to take the effort, and live with the ensuing disruption, because of his choice.
While this is normal...
It is also the whole "this is so unfair" type of thinking that allows us to become the victim if we are not careful.
This is an opportunity for you, to know that this is all stuff that you can handle on your own. Realizing that we don't NEED another person in our life, especially when we have always had someone, can be liberating, and has the potential to change the way you view relationships.
Maintaining a friendly R with you S will benefit the children, shows him that you are still the "safe" place, and may benefit you in the future.
There is a fine line between being too available and letting them know you are still there.
I am confident that you can find that line.
"Acceptance doesn't mean resignation. It means understanding that something is what it is and there's got to be a way through it."--Michael J. Fox
It is also the whole "this is so unfair" type of thinking that allows us to become the victim if we are not careful.
This is an opportunity for you, to know that this is all stuff that you can handle on your own. Realizing that we don't NEED another person in our life, especially when we have always had someone, can be liberating, and has the potential to change the way you view relationships.
Maintaining a friendly R with you S will benefit the children, shows him that you are still the "safe" place, and may benefit you in the future.
There is a fine line between being too available and letting them know you are still there.
I am confident that you can find that line.
Thanks, cat, I think I neeeded to hear that. I am proud of all the things I am accomplishing on my own, it's just hard not to be angry at the same time.
I spent a lot of time with my MIL this weekend. She says H never says anything bad about me, and always uses a friendly tone when he does talk about me now. She told me to be patient and stall as much as I can, because H isn't happy on his own right now and she thinks he might change his mind. (I think she's probably engaging in wishful thinking, but I do that too.)
Saw H yesterday at D's dance recital. I was having a lot of fun with S, dancing to the music, while H looked tired and wasn't really enjoying himself. He did call me over to look at pictures he had taken of the kids (photography is his hobby), and I praised the ones I liked. I mentioned he looked tired and he volunteered more about what was going on there. He did not want to take any more boxes with him last night because he was too tired; this morning I got a spreadsheet from him with an analysis of what we've both spent since he moved out. I'm not going to discuss that with him this week - it's time to enjoy the holiday and he can be patient.
I ran into friends at the recital, and one offered to come with me to zumba classes after Thanksgiving. I think both the social setting and the exercise will be good for me (and yes, my house is about spotless - I clean when I'm upset too).
