Immediate Help Needed on Confronting Spouce

[GusP]

I don't see much here on how to actually confront a cheating spouse and need some help.

Been married 12 years and known each other 25, 3 kids, 2 dogs. We've been best friends and having some issues the past year. We've faced tough challenges before, and I thought we'd brave through these. We talked about separation a couple months ago, but never did it.

I just found out she's been cheating on me for the past few months. Not just in a sexual way, but she thinks she loves him. I had asked her about three months ago and she said I was crazy, then I asked a couple more times and she blew me off telling me I was just jealous. She used the love I have for her against me. I'm beyond devastated.

Now I see that she's been lying to me, our kids and everyone else. I need to confront her about it, but not sure how to do it. Do I take all the documentation I have? I have a lot -- conversations, dates ... everything.

I thought about just filing, but wanted to give her one more chance to save her family. It's bad though -- tons of lying, text messages under someone else's name, the OM even blocked me on Facebook. I just don't know how to approach it. Don't want her wall to just go up and end up in a screaming match.

Oh, and by the way. If you're gut says something just isn't right ... it isn't. I feel like a fool. She's still lying now, telling me that she cares about me while being with this guy. Any help would be great, I want to do this soon.

Me 41; H 41
M:11, T:12
Bomb (love, but not in love): Sept 10
began DBing: Sept 10
OM: Nov 10

[FaithnAK]

Sorry you are here. Your gut is always right.

Do you have Divorce Remedy?

Go to the infidelity section. Page 230 titled "The Ultimatum".

The approach there is about the equivalent of what some great posters that are no longer here would basically put forth. If I had it to do all over again I would use that approach. You don't have to use the file for divorce part, but you could make her move out of the home. After all, you are here to try and save your marriage. BUT that's your choice to make and you don't want to make it out of anger.

Also, the evidence you have is YOURS don't show her your cards, because she could "say" she will end it and then knowing how you found out, hide that from you even better or go a new way. So the evidence is for you to firmly tell her that YOU know she's having an A.

Your W will more than likely turn into a Demon when you do this, but you have to stay strong and not engage with her spew. You have to be firm and confident when you tell her this. Like a man that loves his Wife, but loves Himself more than to tolerate an open Marriage.

The rest of Divorce Remedy is about identifying what you can do differently about YOUR part in the marriage. What did she find in the OM that was missing in you kind of searching. Basically, she will have to decide between losing you and going with the OM. She will more than likely pick him, but if you do this correctly you will eliminate her "Fantasy" and make it not so fun anymore. Plus you will look like a pillar of strength.

Once this part is done, YOU have a lot of work to do on yourself.

[dbmod]

Hi Gus,

Welcome to divorcebusting. If your goal is to save your marriage....the ultimatum is the 'after the last resort' technique. The BEST thing to do....unless you're unwilling...is to use the Last Resort Technique FIRST.

Only use the ultimatum unless that's truly where you are and all you can do.

[MrBond]

You don't necessarily need to word an "ultimatum" like "either you do this or else".

Just state what your personal boundary is to her. Something like "I understand you and I have things to work on in our marriage and I am more than willing to do so if you are. However, I will not be in an open marriage and have another man in our lives. If you cannot comply, then you will have to leave." this approach is different to what you're doing now, so you might as well try it.

Did both of you not want to separate or just her?

[FaithnAK]

Here is a good list of Last Resort Do's and Don'ts. If you reverse the conversation from Man to Woman it's very beneficial advice for you as well. BUT the list at the end is what you really need right now.

If you have DR or waiting on it then this list benefits you immediately.

You aren't doing yourself more harm by staying. However,you need to get a totally different thought pattern, okay? You are simply paralyzed with fear and that fear coupled with your low self esteem is causing you to keep him on a short, tight rope. He's pulling forward as you're trying to rope him back. That causes a lot of tension and isn't very attractive.

So he wants changes in you, huh? Well, why don't you do just that? It's all about attitude, sweetie. You get your desparate & clingy ways and do a 180 degree. Instead of him seeing a needy, whiny, pitiful wifey.....he will see a self confident woman who any man would be nuts to leave. So, how about it?

While you are waiting on the DR book, I would encourage you to study this list of what I call the Do's and the Don'ts of DBing. Some tips that you could seriously be working on to bring about those big changes. But, before I copy & paste the list, I just want to tell you this, he has you believing that it's all your fault and you have to be the one to do all the changing. WRONG! First, you become the best person you possible can be....but you don't do it to keep him.....you do it for "you". He will not be satisfied with any changes you tried in order to keep him from leaving you, but we will discuss that at a later time.

You said that you miss your best friend. Well honey, you are going to find a brand new best friend......YOU!

Here you go:

1.Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or implore! This turns the spouse completely off!
2. No frequent phone calls to spouse.......let him/her be the one to call you. Then don't try to hang on to your spouse through conversation.....instead, you say good-bye first.
3. Do not point out good points in marriage or try to get him/her to read marriage books, look at your M pictures, etc. Especially, do not get him/her to read the DB/DR book. That is for you only!
4. Do not follow your spouse around the house like a puppy dog trying to get his/her time and attention.
5. Do not encourage talk about the future. They don't want to think about a future with you at the moment, so stay clear of that subject.
6. Do not ask for help from family members or friends. Don't discuss private matters with them that would upset your spouse.
7. Do not ask for reassurances (That is showing neediness and
being clingy.) Show self-respect and self confidence.
8. Do not buy gifts to make "brownie points". (Can't buy his/her love and affection.)
9. Do not schedule dates together at this point. (That is pursuing.) Save for later when the R is much better.
10.Do not spy on spouse by checking emails, phone bills, etc. (Not good for you and will make matters worse.)
11.Do not say "I Love You" (It is being "pushy" and trying to
make your spouse say it back to you......he/she will despise you for it.)
12.Act "as if" you are moving on with your life with or without them and that you are going to be okay. Keep a good attitude.
13.Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive at all times! In other words, be the best you can be and look the best you can look at all times. Even when wearing jeans and T-shirt, wear good cologne, b/c it does cause the spouse to take notice.
14.Don't sit around waiting on your spouse to see what kind of mood he/she is in or what he/she is going to do or say – get busy, think of things to do. Go to church, go out with friends, etc. in order to get a life for yourself without waiting on your wife/husband.....but it is okay to invite them, just don't act as if it will change your plans if they do or don't go.
15.When at home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation---then don't, wait for him/her) then, be rather scarce or with your words, but don't sound rude or too short like you are mad. If your spouse asks what's wrong....just say "nothing" and have a pleasant expression on your face. Keep it short and simple. Don't get into an argument! Stay polite and don’ t act like you are pouting. Use poise and class. This does not mean to act like you aren’t speaking, but don’t be overly talkative.
16.If you are in the habit of asking your spouse his/her
whereabouts, ASK THEM NOTHING!! No matter what time he/she comes home! You are giving them space and asking no questions! You enjoy your time with your kids, friends, etc. Remember, you are getting a life, also.
17.You need to make your partner think that you have had an
awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to
move on with your life, with or without your spouse.
18.Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull back and wait
to see if spouse notices and, more important, realize what he/she will be missing. (But never ask him/her if he/she has noticed any changes!!) This is important! If you do, then you have blown it.
19.No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. This can confuse some of them b/c it is not what they expected. Show your spouse someone he/she would want to be around all the time, somebody that can be attractive and fun to be with. That somebody is you! Don't overkill in your attempts to outshine another person your spouse may be having an A with (if there is OP in the picture) to the point of looking like your attempts are "fake" b/c your spouse will see through all of that.
20.All questions about marriage should be put on hold, until
your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while)so this takes patient on your behalf.
21.Never lose your cool! Don't let your spouse trap you into a fight. Don't take her/his bait.....leave the room or the house for a while, if you have to, in order to avoid a fight.
22.Don't be overly enthusiastic, don't over-kill; in anything you do b/c it will come across as fake.
23.Do not argue about how your spouse feels about something (it only makes his/her feelings more negative.) Only they know how they feel!
24.Be patient......very, very patient. Give your spouse space and time. When you pull back, it will draw them towards you. It feels opposite of what you want to do, but it works!
25.Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you. Look them in the eyes when they talk to you. Do not interrupt them when they are speaking and stop what you may be working on to look at them when they talk. This shows them that you really care about what they are saying.
26.Learn to back off, shut up and walk away when you want to
speak out (or scream and yell).
27.Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all
the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil). This is for your health's sake.
28.Be strong and confident and learn to speak softly. Read self
help books, inspirational books or listen to tapes. They are for you only.
29.Know that if you can do 180's, your smallest CONSISTENT
actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say
or write.
30.Do not be openly show that you are "desperate" or "needy" even when you are hurting more than ever and truly feel desperate and needy. This is a large turn-off for your spouse.
31.Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse, instead, focus on them.
32.Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 50% of what
you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because
he/she is hurting and scared.
33.Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel.
34.Do not ask your spouse if he/she has noticed your changes. Those changes are for you and for the rest of your life...with or without your spouse. If it is just to get your spouse back...they won't last and the same problems will return.
35.Do not send several TM's or emails throughout the day unless absolutely necessary.
36. It is best to stay away from the bar scenes where other problems easily arise.
37. Do not backslide from your hard earned changes.

[sandi2]

So she gave you the ILYBNILWY speech on Sept 10th? How did that conversation come about?

I assume she doesn't realize that you know the truth about her and OM?

Let me ask you something about confronting her. What do you expect her to do when you confront her?

Think that over before you do it. I'm not telling you to NOT confront her, but just want you to think about what you think will result from it. The most obvious would be that she would fall into your arms crying with remorsefulness and promising to never contact OM again. I have read....maybe of two cases where that happened, but in neither case did it hold. The WAW continued to lie to the H and go deeper undercover with the A.

So, what then? I'm just saying to be prepared for the possiblity of not achieving the outcome you hoped. It would be difficult to keep emotions in tact. You might want to think of what to say and how to respond to different answers she may present.

My suggestion is that you do not reveal you sources of intel to your W. Once you've done that, then the A goes deeper under cover. If she begins lying about the A, then just look her straight in the eye and say, "We both know you are lying". When she asks how you know...you just look at her with that "knowing" expression and don't say another word.

If you don't tell her how you know she's in an A, then she will move on to attack you in the MR and how you've been a failure in making her happy, etc. This will be a real test not to blow your stack. Stay focus about what you wanted to accomplish by confronting her. Do you know what that is? I think I know what you want it to accomplish, but I doubt it will happen. Doesn't mean you shouldn't.....that is your decision.

Also, don't fly off the handle and confront her when you are in the middle of a fighting match. And for goodness sake, don't allow it to be anywhere other than the privacy of your home. Not in front of children, either. IMHO, if you confront the W with the A, you need to be calm as possible. That may sound stupid, but my H actually did that....the first time.

One thing about coming here and asking for advise, please don't go do it before people have time to reply to your post.... That actually happens quite a bit with some folks.

There use to be quite a bit of advise about confronting the S who is in an A, but most of that has been deleted. Several of us had a pretty tough love approach, but I guess it went too far out from the way Michele teaches. So, some left to find other boards and some stayed. I'm trying to stay within the bookcovers of what DR teaches b/c this is MWD board. Think I may need to re-read it again to make sure.

If she tells you that she won't stop contact with OM, then what? If she says she'll dump OM,then what? I know these are answers you want me to tell you, but I'm trying to get you to "think" through this before stricking.

I will give you a couple of tips. If she promises to break it off with OM, she will probably want a "closure" and see him one more time to tell him gooddbye. That a bunch of cr@-p! Don't believe her bs about him being a good friend when she needed somebody.Tell her you both know she's lying.The biggest way I can tell that they are not honest in dropping OM is b/c she won't give up her passwordsto to her emails, phones, etc. A couple.....a married couple should have nothing to hide from her H unless it's a surprise BD party! So, when she barks that you're invading her privacy...bs.

Confronting is a very critical time b/c it usually goes off one of two ways. She will make you think that giving her a lot of space and time might help her eventually R in the M, but the truth is....she's just going to get more sneaky with the OM. The other way is that she'll tell you that the M is over and she may leave or try to get you to leave. So, know what your stand will be and think this out clearly before acting out.

I have not heard about a WAW in an A yet, who did not need the strong leadership of her H. She won't desire him until she respects him. So those are two things I leave you with. Two important qualities a man must have in order to draw that woman back. He can do it. YOU CAN DO IT!!

((hugs))

Sandi

[gutwrenching]

I'm not going to disagree with Sandi. She gave you a lot to think about. And I'm not going to talk about confronting or not.
What I will say is my experience is exactly what Sandi described. W didn't fall into my arms. There were some tears. She did try to deny it. I used the phrase: Stop, we both know you are lying and I think at a minimum I deserve the truth at this point, don't you. That's when she finally admitted the EA, but of course it wasn't really an A because it wasn't physical and it had just started with the ILYs a couple of weeks ago. Guess what, not all true. It wasn't physical, but the EA and ILYs had started about 3 months prior not 2 weeks. And I made the mistake of revealing how I knew when she questioned me and so they did go deeper undercover and were good at hiding it and never again used those sources that I had found.

Don't do an emotional reaction. If you think that confronting is in-line with MWD and it will attain some sort of goal, then pick a time/place that is appropriate and stay calm and in control and lead as Sandi said.

I am so sorry you are here. This really sucks and it will remain hard for a while.

[GusP]

You guys are awesome, thanks a lot. I have read DB and gave been following it to the letter since Sept. I've come to the conclusion that it doesn't matter what I do. I have improved myself and am "Dad of the Year" right now and it's making her mad. She thinks I'm taking over and showing her up. Can't win.

Also, she wanted the separation, not me.

She has given me all the reasons why she's unhappy, but it comes down to the fact that this guy is everything I'm not: he has no kids, plenty of time/money/toys, shows her tons of attention (he doesn't parent any kids, let alone three) ... She's sick of cleaning the kitchen, cooking dinner and having no one care. Our life got to routine and stressful.

Her lying is so bad and cruel that today I finally met with a DA. I think now she's in more of a mid-life crisis than a WAW.

Her betrayal is so strong I don't know if I could ever forgive her, let alone trust her. And she's gone from the best mom in the world into one who isn't here -- even when she's here. The more I look at it; she's not just cheating on me, but on our three kids too.

She's so guilt ridden and confused now, that I'm afraid a confrontation will lead her to freak on me and do something stupid.

I think the only thing left for me to do now is file and hope that knocks some sense into her. Even if our marriage is gone, I want her to be a great wife to our kids.

I just can't decide if I confront her before I take that next step. I feel like I owe it to her, but at the same time I want to protect myself and my kids. Man, this is the last thing in the world that I wanted ... I'd much rather be married.

[GusP]

Sorry, I didn't answer a couple of Sandi2's questions after that insanely great post.

She gave me the ILYINILWY line after I kissed her in our closet getting ready to go to a football game. We had people coming in 15 min and she dropped that bomb on me. Like nothing I ever felt, until ...

No, she doesn't know that I know about the OM, but she has to have some idea. He texts her 20 times a night and it says "Lisa." I know -- and she can see me steaming. We actually got into it this evening because as we were talking about the kids her phone went off again and it was him.

I don't know what to expect when I confront her. I've given up on her running into my arms. But I was hoping she might see this ultimatum as her family being on the line. This is her last chance to save it.

M41 W41
Three Kids
WAW Bomb dropped 9/10
Affair suspected 9/10
Affair confirmed 11/10

"Always trust your gut."

[sandi2]

But I was hoping she might see this ultimatum as her family being on the line. This is her last chance to save it.

I rather use the term "consequence" than ultimatum. WAW's don't respond very well when offered an ultimatum. She will react out of anger....and she will chose OM over you. Don't count on throwing that at her thinking it will shock her into snapping out of the fog, b/c it won't.