Darker days ahead

[25yearsmlc]

I'm sincerely asking. Not trying to bash you but am honestly curious.

the reason why i didn't respond to you is because i don't know how to respond to you.

everything i post, you take as a defensive response.

No I don't.
"Everything"....please. Don't extremize good advice. I simply think you are dodging. Or being superficial, like bringing up explanations from the past about your history but without it revealing much about you personally.ie. Saying your father was bad with money "made you" a certain way with money now. But you did not try to change your beliefs, which did not help you live your life well. It contributed to problems in your m, by your own admission. But you continute to explain those beliefs to justify them AND you continue to extremize the "other side" so if I were to suggest lightening up on money, you'd reply with "I don't want to WASTE money like my father" but no one said to do that. I am not saying "go spend wildly" so don't make what I say into something extreme. As for "dodging" the deeper answers, others mention this so I'm not alone in this belief.

and i feel that you attack me in your posts.

Now who's being "defensive"? And who's projecting? I think That is a practice of yours and it is revealing. It could be useful to you if you "do the work" meaning honestly facing and evaluating this behavior-- hopefully you will recognize it and learn that it's not healthy. It doesn't help you here on the board, or in your real life, I think.

it is not helpful to me. i think you could be a resourceful person but i don't get the feeling you really want to help me. you want me off this board because i'm taking up diskspace or something.

You are making such strange accusations here. You're the first person to say this to me. I've posted countless times over a period of several years. I've given people 2 x 4s at times, and held their hands as MINE were once held in this most sad of experiences. I said many times that you need more help than we can provide here. That's not the same as saying I want you off the board. It's admitting my limitations. When you have time to reflect on your comment, I hope you'll see how wildly inaccurate and unfair it is. Others who read posts of mine, HERE, have found value in them but evidently not you. Too bad.

Who says? That's you using an easy explanation but I don't buy it. I'm a middle child of sorts (6 of 10), and we have a middle child and MOST middle children don't talk the way you are talking. It's an excuse you are using, again, to avoid deeper searching.

this is what i mean by not helpful. if you can see that i'm not getting it .. why don't you try and ask the right questions to guide me towards "deeper searching" because after so many posts, it's quite obvious i don't know what questions i need to answer in order to achieve that "deeper searching". instead, you simply accuse me of avoiding.


Because you point to SOME (not the most alarming ones though) of the odd unhealthy behaviors of yours, but then explain them away as if having a reason for them, makes them acceptable. As if You can't change them...you are who you are, and you got that way b/c of something that "happened to you" so it's "hopeless"...and THIS approach prevents you from growing. Rather than taking charge of your own happiness you point to some syndrome or other easy explanation as if it's a cause and not a choice. The middle child syndrome is a cop out. I stand by that.

you want me to expand on my past but when i do, you tell me that it's not relevant NOW. so i have no idea what you want from me.

See above. ANd you do not expand on the dangerous comments you made. You just don't.

all you say to me is "you're wrong" and that's it.
it is not helpful to me. ok. i'm wrong .. so how do i make it right?

I Don't think I ever said you were "wrong", but it's fascinating how you read into any constructive criticism, and turn it into something destructive. You also never address the HIGHLIGHTS--the red flags-- like the suicidal ideation you revealed, STILL gets ignored by you. Even now. By the way, my posts are aimed at YOU finding out what you are to do NOW. Not about the past, unless it's relevant to discovering how to change something today.

It's the dodging and surface analysis that frustrates me b/c I think you are cognitively capable of more.

i don't know how to tap into the "deeper searching". sometimes you can guide me there by asking the right question. there is a way to get beyond the surface analysis - by creating trust and asking the right questions. i know nothing about you. why would i trust you with my sitch?

Trust me? You don't have to trust me to benefit from advice. I didn't ask you to trust me. But I have said many times you should address these things to the IC. You say you don't. Fine.

I'm a L and a part time counselor in real life, but I will not and cannot counsel or give L advice online b/c 1) it's not my position or desire to do that online; and 2) I don't know your history near well enough.

You also don't need to trust me to get advice b/c you can always ignore it. But there are people who want ot get advice, learn from their mistakes and change their behaviors Nor do I have time to "create trust and ask the "right questions'. I am just very direct.

I have been direct with you and don't want riddles or defensive responses or dodging answers. Good grief.

You need help, and of that I am sure. But you want that help without even "giving" us the information we need. You want us to guess and ask "the right" questions, thereby taking up OUR time and making it as easy on you as possible. When I'm direct, you say I am "attacking" you and you project a lot of negativity onto me. I actually think that's part of your situation b/c you admit you did this with your h but now when you do it to me, you see no pattern. Patterns abound in your posts and probably in your life. Use this information to make changes.

How do you "know" any of this, given the NC?

h wrote a long letter about why felt the process was unfair and why he should be getting what he wants, etc. much of it would not hold up in court, but there was a lot of hostility in his letter.

While no one wants to "abandon" you, there are people here really looking for advice to use in their situations. Do you see yourself as one of those, truly?

well, at the risk of being called negative or expecting the worst and that's what you'll get..
i'm not sure what kind of advice i need. my sitch is at the point where the SA is being negotiated and after that, i expect to be served d papers.

Since you are not here to save your m I can't give you advice on that. Just wanted you to see your part in it.

But I have a success story and did not expect to just a few years ago. I recall doing an article on my "upcoming divorce", which never came to be. That's how expectant I was of a divorce. Gave my chances of a recon 10% at one point and said "it would take a miracle." I began DBing shortly before that, and kept on NOT to save the marriage anymore, but to save ME and to learn how to forgive, and to set an example for my children and to avoid becoming neurotic and bitter. And now my m is in a good place. We still have struggles but the commitment is there and so is the love. Since you want no part of that advice, all we can do is what? Oh, nothing b/c you are here to simply update some others and journal.

When I see those "journal" entries I see a sad woman very stuck and entrenched in her need to be right, who then swings to other extremes in mood. Frightening extremes. I dare to point this out. And when I mention them to you, repeatedly, those extremes, those alarming changes and scary suicidal comments of yours remain untouched by you. SO do your comments about fearing your h wants to kill you. You don't even bother to deny them. You post this to me instead. IT's sort of an attack but I don't take it personally.
But I shake my head at the waste b/c you sound intelligent and educated but also, blind. As for defensive behavior, you're projecting again. I have nothing to defend against. You don't know me. I tried to help you. I have helped others, or so I am told. My m was restored. That's enough for me.


i just wanted to give lauraoh and forrest an update because they have followed my thread from day 1. i owe it to them to let them know how my sitch is progressing or ending.

i would definitely like to get some help on peeling the onion. my ic sessions are for short term. we focus on getting through the grieving process and letting go. i've been told to meditate so i can focus ..
if your strength is in saving a marriage. this one isn't salvageable.

ALthough I've heard that before, and said it myself, I'll take your word for it. My "strength" is in helping people get through hard times and maybe in the process grow enough as people that their m IS saved or THEY ARE saved...they find themselves on the other side of this nightmare, whole and healing. Some of them credit me with insights that helped them grow as people.
I just don't think it's that DB failed. I don't think you really DBd and you might even admit that yourself. Does it matter now? Only if you've learned nothing in the process.

catastrophisizing?

I am referring to your "I don't deserve to live"..."I deserved to be left"..."Im not a good person" and that your h "wants to take me out" meaning to Kill you. Yes I stand by the comment that you are catastrophizing b/c those are such alarming dramatic, over the top remarks that you do NOT follow up with, I am stunned you still ignore this. It's disturved thought pattern (yet another pattern) Or worse, it's true and you are not doing anything about these clinically dangerous emotions, or criminally dangerous events to come.


if you are truly trying to help me become a better person, then i will work with you.

From your other comments about me "attacking" you, or Me being "defensive", I suspect someone else can help you more. That's not an insult or a punishment. But you say nothing I've asked or said to you has helped you. So, what's there for me to say?

I sincerely hope your counselling helps you peel away the layers and walls you have so that you can see that deep down inside, (as I said before, in another one of my posts "attacks") you will NOT find a monster.

You'll find a little girl who has been hurt badly and doesn't know how to heal herself. A girl who is trying to "think" her way through this. I suggest you try an Essential Experience workshop for personal individual growth (helped my marriage but my h and I went separately, THEN as a couple b/c it's not designed for couples but as each person IN a M/R gets better, so does the R/M...) so that you attend an experiential workshop where there's no time to rehearse an answer to screen your responses. And you'll be left with an action plan. If not that workshop, then another one. Read up on it. See what you think. It's life changing if you let it be.

[25yearsmlc]

One last thing I wanted to note, before signing out and off...you actually wrote me, "Why don't you try to ask the right questions?"

Wow. What a remarkable question you asked. Almost as if I owe you the "right" questions? I don't. But why don't you make it easier for us/me to help YOU? (And Lest we forget, I asked many questions that you have still not answered so I could say, "what's the point?")

But more importantly, do You actually think I've purposely avoided the "right" questions? Or that it matters what TYPE Of question I ask, when you could simply dig deep and figure out what you may need to address about yourself? What kind of game is that? I'm not playing.

As a L, I am a bit of a wordsmith, so I choose my words with precision. You don't need to read into, or guess, what I mean b/c I say what I mean and I mean what I say. That part is easy.

What's with the mystery game? Guessing wastes time and I don't have that much time.

Other people and I are easier to reach. Why? It is simple.
They choose to disclose, they share, and they do it without the excuse (or fear??) of revealing "too much" ...too much what? Too much..."something"...etc. What are you afraid of disclosing now?

If you're worried about something criminal, My advice then would be an adamant HIRE A L!" But I doubt you could shock me with a confession considering I did criminal law for 3 years...

Other clients and people on this site, including ME, have gotten a ton of help from counselors, DB coaches, therapists, and people HERE, some of whom become real friends in real life, but all of them, do open up.
THis isn't cross examination. It's an act of faith and bravery but truly in my case, what did I have to lose by opening up, that I wasn't already going to lose without opening up? If i didn't dig deep and fix ME, I'd lose my 25 yr m, half the time with my kids, and a fortune.

So They or we bravely open up, (anonymously of course) and dig deep, they make changes,& they grow. They become the best people they can become, with some backsliding here and there. But invariably, they become happier people.

As their best selves, the following happens... Sometimes they reconcile like my h and I did, ( And like Brandnewday, Saffli, BobB, and several others who reconciled). Sometimes they grow & are ready for healthier R's with the next person in their life, such as Was2sad, Faithisbelieving, OR austinsmartcookie.

OR the LBSer grows and changes and remarries a new person, and ends up like Bworl who finally, after much heartbreak we all shared with him, happily moved on to a new M, and is a better man than before (his words) and a happier man (his words).

In ANY case, we want to move on as our new best selves. It's ALL up to us. Your life's happiness is ALL within your control. I believe that 100% about myself and others.

That's personal growth, and That's DBing. AND it's hard.

I strongly encourage a few days' workshop so you avoid the "dabbling" of weekly or bi-weekly therapy that can be WONDERFUL and with an excellent IC, and with insights BUT with interruptions from real life. It often leads to slower progress due to interruptions from work, or picking up the kids or mom coming over, etc
Doing a weekened retreat forces us to work THROUGH the problems and solve them, not postpone til next week OR the week after.

FYI, That's NOT an "attack" on therapy. Without therapy I would not have been able to benefit from the workshop retreat. Just a thought.

If you are the one in your M from a different culture (I still don't even know that small but crucially important factor, b/c you never revealed it til recently...& why not?) And both I and my h are 1st generation Americans and it matters. Cultural differences added some color and interest AND friction at times. But I'm not ashamed of it. I never hid it.

Does any of that relate to the religious issues? It did in my sitch. But You made it harder to help you by leaving that out. Even now glossing over it. Might affect his approach to property settlement. Why wouldn't you mention that in all the months of posting here that I saw. Yes I'm frustrated.

Despite your apparent intelligence it does suggest some sort of victimhood or world view that would get you to say something as odd as that I "attacked you" and wanted you "off the DB board b/c you took up too much disk space"
That would really be laugable if it weren't so sad and insecure. How do you get through your days thinking like this? You have to stop the negative tape in your brain but hey, I said that before too.

Like your screen name, you search for AND FIND, a much darker view of the factors in your situation and insist it is "unique" (as in uniquely horrid) and UNsolvable...and "unlike ANY other" situation...the point of this is what? Attention or surrender?

D4, I see those words about every week on this board. Most people Do feel their situations are TOTALLY different than others, and there are always some things that are unique. Hence NOT having a one size fits all approach.


But most of us find it comforting to realize we/they/YOU are NOT alone,and your sitch is not that unique. Doesn't mean you are not special! But the world has seen your very problems before.

Well, I sincerely wish you peace and insights and luck. Maybe Forrest or someone else will be able to ask the right questions and you'll answer them and gain some insights that also lead to change. I hope that all happens.

[DumpedforMIL]

25, i propose we start all over again. and we will work our way through to all of he unanswered questions, and extreme ways of thinking.

i think i know why i have misunderstood you. i mistakenly assumed you read through my sitch or i assumed that my threads painted a detailed enough picture of things. after reading your last post, i realize why there is a disconnect - it's because you don't know my history.

if you agree to start over, i will give as much detail as i can. the only reason why i am proposing this is because my intention is now to save myself. when i first started on this board, i wasn't interested in saving myself. my goal was to save my m. it has finally hit me that my m cannot be saved and i do not like what the mood swings does to me.

[25yearsmlc]

I read your posts, off and on since March. (Did Not read all the details of communications with your h).

I looked for but never saw anything about you getting treated for depression, or the reason for a restraining order or him wanting to kill you. Nor who came from which culture and whether there were issues at the wedding about that or child issues (have or not?).

What significant piece am I missing? My guess is that you won't get to the core. I think you'll stay on the surface day to day things. That's not very useful, in my opinion, given the other things in THIS post. (ie, talk of Suicide, homicide, etc)

[DumpedforMIL]

My guess is that you won't get to the core. I think you'll stay on the surface day to day things. That's not very useful, in my opinion, given the other things in THIS post. (ie, talk of Suicide, homicide, etc)

to me, that's mind-reading. i've been told that's a no-no.

but i don't know what else to say.

[25yearsmlc]

WTH? How's it a "No no" or "mind reading" when I'm quoting you?

[DumpedforMIL]

25 .. i'm really trying to extend an olive branch.

[25yearsmlc]

I don't need "an olive branch".

You need to address matters of real importance here. Your mental and emotional well being are pretty important. I'm talking about your suicidal comments and saying you think your h wants to kill you, and saying you don't deserve to live and that your h wants to "slap a restraining order" on you...You have NOT addressed those in later posts. You simply roll those unpinned grenades onto this site, and move onto some other topic, never returning to explain or address those bombs. Then you say I'm attacking you and that I am defensive. What?

To me, these are core issues.

[DumpedforMIL]

your suicidal comments

i had this desire to run away or escape what i was going through and feeling. i kept thinking of a place to go but i didn't know where because it wouldn't matter where i went, i could not escape this feeling that was eating away at the pit of my stomach. would the only way to get rid of it is to die?

saying you think your h wants to kill you

he has said in the past that there are shady relatives who aren't afraid to go to jail and would do anything to protect him, should he feel 'threatened' by anyone. if he feels paranoid enough, he would do such a thing. his family lives on paranoia.

your h wants to "slap a restraining order" on you

he's been trying to get away from me. and some of the advice here is to go talk to him. being the paranoid person that he is, i've seen him react to me going to the same sports club. he would pack up his stuff and leave - and no, he wasn't just leaving. he'd huff and hurry out. he used to avoid me in the parking garage in our building. by coincidence, we'd arrive home at the same time. he'd park .. see me .. leave .. circle the building .. and then go back to the parking garage. i witnessed it with my own eyes. so if i showed up anywhere he was, he would view that as stalking and convince a judge to slap a restraining order on me.

he has convinced his ic that he was a battered husband. i didn't lay a finger on him. if he can come up with stuff like that, what else can he come up with? that i'm stalking him just by talking to him? yeah, the only person who can come up with that is my h.

[25yearsmlc]

Regardless of why you felt suicidal, you need to get help for that. I hope you are. Explaining it is not solving it. Congitive analysis is not curative in itself, obviously. Death is no solution. Please seek out IC for THAT...and whatever else it leads to in your life, b/c I think it affects more than you realize.

Second, If your h SAYS and or ACTS as if he wants you to stay away from him, I have no idea who would tell you to go talk to him? That's strange advice. From what you describe, he has certainly demonstrated his desire not to share your company. Don't try to contact him except thru L's. Given the givens, It would look like stalking to most people b/c he's made it clear he doesn't want any contact with you. He leaves when you enter a gym.

(Elsewhere in your posts you say he greeted you in the hall of your common building, but you refuse to reply in kind...so I'm confused there. Why you live in the same building, why he'd greet you if he fears you, why you'd refuse to respond if you want a reconciliation...but No Matter! Finding consistency in your posts is just not that important anymore, compared to you getting help for your underlying issues. I don't want to harp and argue on details when energy should be spent on GAL and dealing with underlying issues.)

If the other things you say are true, you are describing a mafia like man as your soon to be ex h. To that I say, good riddance.

And where the head goes, the heart will follow. When you keep it simple, and know you are not losing a loving healthy man, or seeing the end of a good m, (regardless of who did what) but instead you are gaining freedom from fear and lunacy and a sick R that brought out the worst in both of you. So perhaps your head will lead your heart to the kind of life a healthy person leads.