Darker days ahead

[TimeHeals]

my body is still tense so i booked a 30 min massage to help get rid of the tension before the weekend begins.

Oddly, even the idea of a massage has the opposite effect on me: I get tense thinking about it.

Of course, that probably could be fixed by the "right" masseuse

[25yearsmlc]

I don't think you're a nut case. You sound intelligent and very angry and very wounded. Given what else you said above, I'm not sure there's anything for me to say.

I guess my question for you is, how can we help you now?

[DumpedforMIL]

my massage went from 30 mins to 60 mins.
masseuse said i was really tense in the upper back, shoulders, and neck.
the masseuse recommended a follow up appointment on tuesday.

wow .. i haven't had a massage in 2 yrs.

I guess my question for you is, how can we help you now?

here's the thing .. my jekyll and hyde thing cycles with that time of the month. my pms has never been this bad. it seemed to have magnified after the d-bomb. it's like all of this pent up anger just exploded out of me.

i was never vocal during our m - always careful not to say anything i would regret. but after the d-bomb, i spew whatever i want because i don't know you and you don't know me from adam .. and it's a form of release for me. i get to be the crazy woman .. i get the freedom to speak my mind and get it off my chest. i can use whatever language/words i want .. and it never goes back to my h. unless he reads this.

i say this all the time but it really has to stop. i need to practice full NC. no indirect contact either. i have to simply work on me. my focus is totally off .. which has led to me 'spider webbing' when i talk .. i can't stay on a subject. my ic has tried to get me to practice mindfulness so i can focus.

there is still legal work to be done. and i'm just preparing myself for when the papers are served. i want to be 'okay' when it happens and when i sign the final documents to say it's completely dissolved.

D4MIL

[25yearsmlc]

why the no contact if you still love him? What is the status of OW?

Would your marriage to him today, be the same as it was before? Are you saying you don't want the marriage at all OR you fear a reconciliation b/c you don't trust it? Ideally in your best dreams, would you have a recon AND a "restoration" of the marriage, meaning, a healthy m?

Or do you want to be done and if so, why? Do you know?

I don't take what you say personally b/c as you said, we don't know each other.
You seem to want to vent, so vent.

But again, what is it that we can do to help you?

[DumpedforMIL]

why the no contact if you still love him? What is the status of OW?

i'm always looking for that smoking gun (ie. OW). i have yet to find it but i keep looking <- obsession. not good.

someone else asked me why am i doing no contact when there is nobody else involved.

well, i guess i do it because he said we needed to move on. "we have to sell the house so we can both move on". ok. when we moved into the same building, he would still say hi or wave to me on the rare occasions that we ran into each other. i wouldn't acknowledge him - didn't he say i had to move on?

at the same time, why do i want to be nice to someone who no longer wants to be married to me? talking to him would be like me still pining for him. that would also make me very unattractive (see gucci posts).

he wants to lead this mission to d. i'm not going to stand in his way. but i won't help him move it along. i will protect what's dear to me but otherwise, he's free to take and do whatever he wants. he's leading this .. not me. but i'm near the 'fed up' stage because it's getting dragged out for no good reason.

Would your marriage to him today, be the same as it was before?

it would definitely be different because there is a lot of hurt on both sides. trust has been broken.

Are you saying you don't want the marriage at all OR you fear a reconciliation b/c you don't trust it?

option B - 100%. i don't know if i could trust him. he suspect that he tried to lock me out of the house so he can claim the entire house due to abandonment. he had gone into my room while i was not home and took some personal items of mine. and when i discovered it, he told me he thought i had given them to him as 'something to remember me by'. why the hell would i do that for someone who clearly told me that he was no longer in love me and that it was a mistake to marry me and that the longer he stayed married to me, he was going to die? riiiiight. stealing from my room while i was out?

i love what he used to be. i stuck with the marriage despite wanting out after the first year. i allowed him to cross a boundary without consequences. he asked me to put him first and i did. i needed him to put me first as well, and i wasn't. i watched him put everything else ahead of me.

i would still rather work on this marriage than to marry someone else. but it gets harder and harder for me to want to fight for my marriage if i keep reliving the past because then that's all i'll remember of him. i just regurgitate the "why this happened" and that's all i remember - the bad times. that's why i hate rehashing the past. it starts to cloud the good times. and all i feel is anger and i get stuck in a negative place.

i want a healthy m. i always felt that he was the person who would be able to keep up with me. where he was weak, i was strong. where he was strong, i was weak. i was independent enough that i didn't need him to "kill the bugs for me" and i took on tasks when i knew he was busy. mowing the lawn is probably the only thing that's *his* thing. i'm just not good at mowing the lawn and the lawn mower is really heavy. so in return, i clean the toilets, shower stall, and i take the garbage/recycling out. it's all give and take sometimes. and it worked for us. i make the car appointments for him .. but i don't take his car in because i don't drive a stick (i so wish i could though). i take my own car in to the shop .. most wives i know, their husbands do it for them. i don't need my h to do these things for me. i make him breakfast when he has an early morning call. in our world, there is no "this is your job and only you do it". we both know how to cook well - i know some things better than he does, and he knows some things better than me.

my family used to look at us and say that when they watch Amazing Race, they envision my h and i .. we're great partners that way. we played tennis together - we took great pride in beating two guys at doubles tennis. we played ultimate frisbee together. i used to be girly and now i'm just as athletic as he is .. and he says how proud of me he is for toughing it out.

he got used to watching my tv shows and i got into football, hockey, and basketball. i don't just smile and nod .. i know the rules, the players, the teams, etc. i made a real effort to learn it. i think i scream louder at the hockey games than he does.

we had both shared a love for trivia. kept our minds sharp. every once in a while, i'd throw in a 'blonde' answer to make him laugh. we used to laugh a lot.

notice how all of these things didn't involve his parents? those were the good times. his mother hated that my h, my fil, and i would work on trivia puzzles in the morning paper. she wanted me to be "into" her stuff .. like knitting, bleach, and hand sanitizers. she was a germiphobe. you could never relax when we were at her home. you couldn't sit there and enjoy the paper. if you weren't santizing your hands, you had to listen to her talk about all the things she plans on leaving to us when she dies. not an uplifting conversation. she uses death to manipulate my h. his father is going to die so spend more time with him. his father is fine. but she's got this thing in her head that he's going to "bite the big one". and she uses that phrase a lot. she reminds my h that he's going to die too. he's just like his grandfather .. who btw, died at 42. constantly reminds him of this. she has her own husband thinking about death as well. she uses death as an excuse to be closer to her son .. she's trying to protect him and that's she's only looking out for his best interest .. unlike me, his wife. it got to the point where she tried to control our lives with her hypervigilance. she wouldn't allow us to drive because a snowstorm is headed your way. she'd sit at home and cry and cry until you told her you wouldn't drive. she screams when you drive over a speed bump like the car is on a head on collision. the woman needs to relax. she'd cry at christmas dinner every year - because this could be our last family christmas dinner together.. her h was living on borrowed time and what if he "bites the big one" before next christmas? here's a gun .. shoot yourself and put yourself (and us) out of this misery.

just took my happy husband and made him a depressed man who thinks he's going to die. that's why when he dropped the d-bomb, he said that in order to save himself, he had to hurt the one that he loved. he feared that staying married to me, he was going to die.

you know, the great mickey mantle thought he would never live beyond his 40s because of his family history. he lived it up, smoked, drank, ate unhealthy. he lived into his 60s and said .. had he known he'd live this long, he would have taken better care of himself. i don't want my h to go through this .. thinking that he might die in a few years. i want him to live long and be happy .. with me.

why would you as a mother instill that kind of fear in your son? that's child abuse.

in order for me to have a healthy m .. the whole death thing would have to go. i can't have my h constantly think about when he's going to die. is that even possible to achieve?

the reason why i suck at db-ing is because a lot of this is a choice you make. i can GAL, 180, go dark, self-assessment. but will he ever look at my life and say "i want to be a part of that"? it doesn't change the fact that they are pre-occupied with death and that he is being summoned back to the "mother"ship. i feel like the OW in this distorted relationship. his real w is his mother.

But again, what is it that we can do to help you?

i need to bring myself back to a normal state. i need to make sure that when that time of the month rolls around, i gotta be prepared .. otherwise, i spiral out of control. i have to stop the stalking. just tell me that he's not seeing anyone and i'll be ok. don't say "even if he is seeing someone, you have no control over it". that doesn't help me either. lie if you have to .. because the point is really just to get through this. m or no m.

distract me if you can. i need to focus on something other than the sitch.
hopefully when i go into sign the d papers or when they are served to me, i will be ready.

yeesh .. that was a mouthful.

D4MIL

[Forrest Gump]

I has popcorn.

[DumpedforMIL]

i'm going to try something in each of these categories.

relax - the massage was my relaxation. i have another one booked next friday.
eat - i'm eating again. my friends took me out for my first shawarma last week. yummm .. they made me order the platter. :P
think - trying not to think too much
act normal - trying to do this too - slowly getting there.
react .. smartly - failed this so far but we'll see.
do something different - halloween party tonight night. never been to one, will go.
emulate - not sure what this means or involves.
do work - if i knew what it was, i'd try it.

i'm going down the list.

i have a little story to tell.

in my leadership course, one of the instructors usually gives a talk at the end of the class. this week, the talk was about what a smile can do. how a smile can change someone's day.

it reminded me that four months ago, you told me to start smiling and see what affect it has on others. it is true. when i stop smiling, the world stop smiling back. when i smile at others, they smile too and it brings people towards you.

today, someone came into the elevator. <big smile, dumped>. and i engaged in a conversation with him about the weather - it was actually snowing outside!!

i am also beginning to see the stop, drop, and roll analogy. i feel as though you are telling me that i know what the answer to my problem is .. but i keep thinking about it and i don't know what the answer to my problem is.

i need to make a real conscious effort .. not this yo-yo of "oh woe is me" to "i'm gonna make him pay" attitude.

i don't want any of this to have to do with my stbxh though.

for some reason, i think he's got a PI on me to accumulate evidence that i'm stalking (he's doing it to get a restraining order on me). i am very suspicious wherever i go.

that's also part of the reason why i haven't engaged in any conversation with him. i am actually afraid that he will view any contact that i have as 'stalking'. i need to save the conversation stuff when it is truly needed. otherwise, stay away .. or he'll slap a restraining order on me. pls don't make me do anything that will look like stalking. if i get a restraining order on me .. that's game over. no chance of ever being friends.

anyway, i took a pilates class today. i feel good. body is still in good shape. need to up the GAL a bit more. my masseuse told me to go out and not stay at home. tomorrow, i will do some grocery shopping and then maybe hit the gym for a weight training class.

i think i found my potential "vacation" - to go skiing. it will also help with my focusing (ie. gotta stay sharp so i don't hit a tree?).

i've also started trading equities. something i've never done before. i watch, monitor and observe. so far, i'm doing fairly well. nothing big but not bad.

D4MIL

[DumpedforMIL]

journaling ..

so much for not posting here that often.

the halloween party was amazing. i didn't dress up but it was pretty classy. it was held at the presidential suite of a hotel. everyone from the squash club was there - most of them were way younger than i. but i didn't care. i met a lot of others from the club whom i have never spoken to before.

the party was catered, with bottle service, a guy doing caricatures of the guests, and really nice prizes for the games. the guy went all out for this party. a guy dressed as a cowboy started chatting me up - he said he has seen me at the squash club. i didn't know who he was. my friends were good "wing people" - they tried to rescue me from the 'cowboy'.

i didn't drink too much that night. i didn't eat much so i had a 1/4 shot of ciroc vodka and OJ. i'm just not a shots kinda girl. but y'know what? i tried it .. normally, i wouldn't but i did it just to do something that i wouldn't normally do. however, i did "pay" for it later .. cuz alcohol just makes me burn up. i felt my head get hot and red .. my throat starts to feel like it's being tightened. a few more glasses of plain OJ and i'm good.

i didn't get home until 4:30 am this morning. i went to bed at 4:50 am and woke up at 10 am. had breakfast and then went to squash at the local college campus.

my body hurts from pilates but it's a good hurt. i tried to focus on the breathing exercises that is part of each pose.

i made a healthy dinner tonight. and i have leftovers for lunch tomorrow.

i need to get some sleep though.

D4MIL

[25yearsmlc]

i'm going to try something in each of these categories.

relax - the massage was my relaxation. i have another one booked next friday.
eat - i'm eating again. my friends took me out for my first shawarma last week. yummm .. they made me order the platter. :P
think - trying not to think too much
It's good to avoid "paralysis by analysis". And my guess based on your posts, is that most of your thinking gets negative when it comes to your h, and the mind reading is also counter productive. So, good for you. Relax, put a "Stop Sign" in front of you next time you find yourself veering off course.

act normal - trying to do this too - slowly getting there.

Not sure what you mean by this. Can you elaborate? What do you do that isn't normal, other than the over thinking? Do you have friends who are "normal" or some examples in your life?

react .. smartly - failed this so far but we'll see.

Meaning what? You want to change behaviors? Do you see how vague this is? It's so vague it's hard to comment upon but perhaps that is a goal of yours. I mean, journalling is fine but if you want feedback, you have to be able to take it, and you have to provide enough specifics that we can offer something of use.

do something different - halloween party tonight night. never been to one, will go. GLad you went. It was different and it didn't kill you. Yay.

emulate - not sure what this means or involves.
Find someone you can use as a mentor and then act more like them in some way you admire or need to do more of. When I was a kid I had to use a character on a TV show b/c I didn't have a role model in real life until I was 14.


do work - if i knew what it was, i'd try it.

The "work"... that's the part of this process that yields real growth and change. That is what this is really ALL about. The part that requires true bravery. The work that means you peel back your layers, like an onion, and look deep inside to fix what needs fixing and to nurture your soul. Underneath all those layers is NOT a monster. The work is where you care for yourself and accept yourself in a way you may never have done before. It's facing yourself in all your glory, warts and all, and still loving you. Seeing yourself through God's eyes, if only for a minute. Staring boldly at what isn't so pretty and working on it AND forgiving yourself for what isn't acceptable, AND changing it.

If forgiveness is foreign to you, or too hard, it will prevent you from looking within - b/c all of us have dark shadows we have to work on AND LET GO OF< but if we're so unforgiving with ourselves (and others) we'll never face the tough stuff. And we'll stay stuck, veering from one black and white view to another.

And letting go of the mistakes we ALL make AND learned from, accepting yourself and others with all their warts and all their glory, and learning about living happily, no matter what curve balls life throws at you.

Often, I notice that When you get "real feedback" you either go into the "I don't deserve to live" mode, which stops anyone from giving you feedback even if it's constructive for fear that you'll crumble, or you deflect by talking about generalizations about men or your mother in law, or some other relatively superficial comment about the M. It keeps you from looking within b/c you submit that it's all your fault, and therefore not worth trying to fix, OR it's MIL, the ex, a man's world, etc.

Your mil had issues for sure. She's a depressing kook. And? I mean, Mine was schizophrenic and violent and I was often the target of her episodes. As you admit, you had good times too and your h won't forget ALL of them. But this isn't a contest of MILs. Just means we deal with it. And after the detailed post you gave regarding what your h would say if he were posting, I still think your mil was relatively small factor b/c you yourself admit you two had issues quite apart from her. Why does this matter?

B/C when you refer to her and her behaviors, you are talking about something you can do nothing about and therefore you avoid "the work". If we are talking about you and h or your M or your behavior, then we're discussing something you CAN affect, but stop short of. Why? I think the real work is what you are avoiding.

You said your m would be different today than before, (but not better). Just words about trust being broken so it's a done deal. We know that. I'm talking about what you've learned about yourself and what you'd change. After all this pain, surely you would be a better w than before. I'd think so, but if so, how? If not, how tragic. Do you see why I say this? Do you discuss this with your IC?


i'm going down the list.

i have a little story to tell.

in my leadership course, one of the instructors usually gives a talk at the end of the class. this week, the talk was about what a smile can do. how a smile can change someone's day.

it reminded me that four months ago, you told me to start smiling and see what affect it has on others. it is true. when i stop smiling, the world stop smiling back. when i smile at others, they smile too and it brings people towards you.

today, someone came into the elevator. <big smile, dumped>. and i engaged in a conversation with him about the weather - it was actually snowing outside!!

Yes. It's also known as "get out of it what you put into it" and saying yes to the universe, and finding that the universe says "yes" right back at you, usually in exponential ways.

i am also beginning to see the stop, drop, and roll analogy. i feel as though you are telling me that i know what the answer to my problem is .. but i keep thinking about it and i don't know what the answer to my problem is.

i need to make a real conscious effort .. not this yo-yo of "oh woe is me" to "i'm gonna make him pay" attitude.

So, I guess, I take it you mean you won't see things so black and white, "all or nothing" anymore? Good. And yes you do have to make a conscious effort at this. None of it happens by accident.

i don't want any of this to have to do with my stbxh though.

Whatever triggers the growth, as long as it's real growth, it's good.

for some reason, i think he's got a PI on me to accumulate evidence that i'm stalking (he's doing it to get a restraining order on me). i am very suspicious wherever i go.

Wow...Without knowing your history enough to know whether this is based on reality or your admitted overly suspicious nature, all I can wonder is if this is going to be helped by you trying to think more "Normally"? It does not sound normal, fyi. Sorry but it doesn't. Why would he think you are stalking him? And even if he gets a restraining order, how would that effect the property division? I don't think it would. Stalking him? Why? B/c you live in the same building? I found it odd, but Did he get a restraining order on you then, or do you simply fear he wants to?

If it's the latter, that's a whole lot of mind reading on your end. Saying you are "very suspicious wherever [you] go" sounds...extreme. And sad. And probably self inflicted. You said You've looked and looked for a "smoking gun" (ie OW) and have found none. Then Why keep looking? I mean What difference does it make now if your divorce can't be based on adultery? Isn't it possible you are looking for a reason NOT to try and reconcile? Just so I know, how'd he break the trust (other than wanting out of the M, b/c there's no OW and no lying that you've discussed here)? Also, You admit you acted as if the M was going to end prematurely, but never addressed whether there was an element of self fulfilling prophecy there, and you say you love him still.


that's also part of the reason why i haven't engaged in any conversation with him. i am actually afraid that he will view any contact that i have as 'stalking'. i need to save the conversation stuff when it is truly needed. otherwise, stay away .. or he'll slap a restraining order on me. pls don't make me do anything that will look like stalking. if i get a restraining order on me .. that's game over. no chance of ever being friends.

Who would "make" you do something that would look like stalking? May I assume something in the past leads you to worry about this that I simply didn't see in the posts, or are you totally over thinking this? "Slapping a restraining order" on you for merely contacting him isn't realistic. Either something is missing from the story, or you are doing some serious negative mind reading. I'd nip that in the bud. Have you tried personal growth OR post divorce workshops? IC is great but it can be fragmented b/c sometimes as you make a breakthrough, you have to go back to work or home, and workshops can be more 'efficient" in that regard. Just a thought. Good luck.

[DumpedforMIL]

note: i did not proof read this so please excuse the typos.

think - trying not to think too much
It's good to avoid "paralysis by analysis". And my guess based on your posts, is that most of your thinking gets negative when it comes to your h, and the mind reading is also counter productive. So, good for you. Relax, put a "Stop Sign" in front of you next time you find yourself veering off course.

YES. i don't usually use capital letters but i had to use it there. i can get very imaginative .. in a negative way and it is not productive.

act normal - trying to do this too - slowly getting there.

Not sure what you mean by this. Can you elaborate? What do you do that isn't normal, other than the over thinking? Do you have friends who are "normal" or some examples in your life?

i have to be myself. not some crazy chick who just complains about her breakup.

react .. smartly - failed this so far but we'll see.

Meaning what? You want to change behaviors? Do you see how vague this is? It's so vague it's hard to comment upon but perhaps that is a goal of yours. I mean, journalling is fine but if you want feedback, you have to be able to take it, and you have to provide enough specifics that we can offer something of use.

every time i hear from my lawyer, i would react with emotion. that's because my lawyer heard from his lawyer and my h would be asking for something stupid and it would make me pissed. i would call up my lawyer and say "what the heck is he doing? blah blah blah!" .. if he's trying to get a reaction out of me, it would work every time.

my mom notices it too. every time i find out something about my h, i would react with a lot of emotion. when he switched lawyers and his new lawyer contacted my lawyer and said he wanted this dealt with quickly. i reacted emotionally. when his net worth statements came through and i saw that he was claiming my wedding ring, engagement ring, handbag, and wedding jewellery .. my heart sank. it makes me feel like naive. and i hate feeling that way. but it gets to me .. each and every time.

my lawyer knew i wanted to reconcile with my h. he gave me the opportunity to go talk to my h and say "hey, let's try to negotiate without our lawyers." my lawyer told me to gauge his response and this would determine if he was open to reconciliation or not. then i can walk away knowing i tried. my h and i stop talking to one another since july. on the rare occasion that i would see him, i would not acknowledge him. thinking .. you are dumping me. why would i even want to be friends with you? and i didn't want him to cake eat. and i'm so confused .. i want to reconcile but i want him to realize what he's missing by getting rid of me from his life. i know .. wrong approach .. but just explaining how confused my thought process was at the time.

do something different - halloween party tonight night. never been to one, will go. GLad you went. It was different and it didn't kill you. Yay.

it kinda killed me. i got home late and i'm still feeling the effects from saturday. but no regrets in going.

emulate - not sure what this means or involves.
Find someone you can use as a mentor and then act more like them in some way you admire or need to do more of. When I was a kid I had to use a character on a TV show b/c I didn't have a role model in real life until I was 14.

there are so many people to choose from. i had stuck with dr. randy pausch and oprah. i can relate to dr. randy pausch because his lessons on life is in line with my morals and values. i listen to him and it's like my mom talking to me. oprah's stanford speech from 2008 taught me that in order to move forward, i have to give back.

do work - if i knew what it was, i'd try it.

The "work"... that's the part of this process that yields real growth and change. That is what this is really ALL about. The part that requires true bravery. The work that means you peel back your layers, like an onion, and look deep inside to fix what needs fixing and to nurture your soul. Underneath all those layers is NOT a monster. The work is where you care for yourself and accept yourself in a way you may never have done before. It's facing yourself in all your glory, warts and all, and still loving you. Seeing yourself through God's eyes, if only for a minute. Staring boldly at what isn't so pretty and working on it AND forgiving yourself for what isn't acceptable, AND changing it.

i know what needs to be fixed in me. i have given myself a long hard look in the mirror and this is what i've discovered.

knowing what i know about the breakdown of our marriage, part of it was because i felt like i had to follow the normal route that everyone else was taking. get married, buy a house, start a family. this is what everyone else was doing. and i tried to be what everyone else was like. i tried to want what everyone else wanted. i was ready to let myself go for the sake of having children. was it what i wanted? not necessarily but i felt like i couldn't say that i didn't want children for fear that others would think that there's something wrong with me. that i'm selfish for not wanting to have children.

i tried to be like my sisters. i tried to do the same things but it only made me unhappy. y'know, even now .. my mom says i'm 'different' from the rest of my siblings. and she makes it sound like it's a really bad thing. how am i different? i like to watch sports, i love history, i love trivia games, i love the discovery channel, i enjoy photography, i love learning new things, i make exercise a priority, i have taken an interest in fine wine .. and that makes me different. my sisters who are married have settled into their SAHM roles. they don't do the same things that i enjoy because their priorities are different. they have never been interested in learning the things i take an interest in. for me, learning keeps my brain sharp and the more things i know, the more well rounded i become as a person.

secondly, i harped on the gold digger label that my h gave me. i didn't like it because my entire life i felt like the cash cow. and to have someone call me a gold digger when i've always felt that others were digging me and i didn't even think to call others a gold digger .. it just hurt me. i grew up poor and i watched my dad be irresponsible with money. i saw how it made everyone feel scared because we didn't know how we were going to pay the bills. i swore that i would never let that happen to me. hence, i have always been one to keep an emergency fund well stocked. when i watch my h spend money like water and not save for his retirement, it reminds me of my dad's financial irresponsibility.

it ties in with why i don't like men claiming that women want financial security. the men in my life has never given me that sense of security before. i wanted to go to grad school but because my dad decided he didn't want to work any more, i had to give up grad school and i took a job i didn't like but paid fairly well. and i became the family breadwinner at 23 yrs old. i took care of everyone with my salary. my sister still remembers that i covered her tuition when she needed the money. i provided financial security to others. and deep down, i wanted that feeling of someone looking out for me. i am not looking for a sugardaddy .. i want someone to say that they have my back and really mean it. because i feel tremendous pressure to provide and hold things together for others. i just want a break from that job for a while - and i'm afraid to ask for it because i'm afraid the answer is no. they say you treat others the way you want to be treated. i take care of others the way i wish to be taken care of. when i married my h, i felt like he married me because he needed to delegate the crappy work to someone else so he wouldn't have to do it. he hated filing his personal documents, he hated calling the cable company if they screwed up our bill, he hated cleaning the toilets, folding laundry, cleaning the kitchen, taking the trash out, ironing, booking appointments, reading the fine print on contracts and documents, etc. by marrying me, anything he didn't want to do .. he would delegate to me. he wanted to buy a new car but didn't want to do the negotiating work - that was my job. he doesn't like negotiating for a better price because it would make him look cheap but it was okay for ME to look cheap. he wanted to go on vacation but he didn't want to do the research on where to go, how much it would cost, and booking the actual trip.

this leads into my third point .. and that is that one of the things i am most grateful for about my m is that my h taught me how to live. as mentioned above, i was the family breadwinner at 23. before that, i didn't have an allowance and didn't have any money. when i started working, most of my money went towards the family's needs. i saved but my parents had control over how i spent my money. i wanted things like a camera but wasn't allowed to spend my money on stuff that was deemed as 'nice-to-haves'. mind you, i told you that my mom says i'm different and sees it as a bad thing. well, me wanting a camera to pursue my hobby of photography was not well received. it's a waste of money. i grew up not having any hobbies because it cost money. after i got married, my h did encourage me to pursue my love of photography. he bought me my first DSLR. (just so you know, i spent a fortune on his hobby as well - majority of his wine glasses were given to him as gifts from me. i wouldn't want you think this was a one-sided relationship).

lastly, sex is a huge issue with me. i know you've read that it's due to my father calling me a whore when i first started to date my h. and it has had an impact on me. sex is a big deal to me. i don't take it lightly. it's like giving someone a part of me. sex only feels right when i feel connected to my h and that there is deep trust and real love there. my h said that sex was neither a passion or a priority of mine. after our first anniversary, i got a chance to reflect on what that first year was like and i felt that he didn't marry me because he loved me - but because i was that person to offload the crap work on to. he didn't need a wife. he needed a maid who moonlighted as a sex worker. and that wasn't the job i wanted when i married him. i have needs too. i pick up the slack for him but my needs weren't being met. i need to know that i'm #1 to him. and time and time again, i didn't feel that i was #1. and therefore, i lost that deep trust and love connection towards him. sex was just an act and i don't do that. my need is that in order for me to have sex, i need that deep trust and love connection. when i don't feel it, i won't give myself to my h. i don't care if his balls are blue .. i don't give myself to someone who insults me or treats me like a doormat.

sex is a priority for me now. and it's not because i want to have children or anything like that. i want that feeling of being loved by someone .. to be able to give myself to someone who i fully trust and love .. and it's reciprocated .. i want that. i didn't feel it with my h but i really wanted to. i wanted him to love me and have that connection with me but he chose his parents time and time again.

And letting go of the mistakes we ALL make AND learned from, accepting yourself and others with all their warts and all their glory, and learning about living happily, no matter what curve balls life throws at you.

sometimes i call my marriage a mistake.

Your mil had issues for sure. She's a depressing kook. And? I mean, Mine was schizophrenic and violent and I was often the target of her episodes. As you admit, you had good times too and your h won't forget ALL of them. But this isn't a contest of MILs. Just means we deal with it. And after the detailed post you gave regarding what your h would say if he were posting, I still think your mil was relatively small factor b/c you yourself admit you two had issues quite apart from her. Why does this matter?

i left stuff out. that's why you don't hear much about it.

B/C when you refer to her and her behaviors, you are talking about something you can do nothing about and therefore you avoid "the work". If we are talking about you and h or your M or your behavior, then we're discussing something you CAN affect, but stop short of. Why? I think the real work is what you are avoiding.

i was looking for the 'will work" technique but that's not realistic of me to think. you don't know if it doesn't work until you try.

You said your m would be different today than before, (but not better). Just words about trust being broken so it's a done deal. We know that. I'm talking about what you've learned about yourself and what you'd change. After all this pain, surely you would be a better w than before. I'd think so, but if so, how? If not, how tragic. Do you see why I say this? Do you discuss this with your IC?

no, i don't because my ic isn't focused on making me a better w. she's focused on getting me through the grieving process. walking away from my m.

i need to make a real conscious effort .. not this yo-yo of "oh woe is me" to "i'm gonna make him pay" attitude.

So, I guess, I take it you mean you won't see things so black and white, "all or nothing" anymore? Good. And yes you do have to make a conscious effort at this. None of it happens by accident.

you'll know when i'm pms-ing. that seems to be when the black-to-white swing occurs.

Wow...Without knowing your history enough to know whether this is based on reality or your admitted overly suspicious nature, all I can wonder is if this is going to be helped by you trying to think more "Normally"? It does not sound normal, fyi. Sorry but it doesn't. Why would he think you are stalking him? And even if he gets a restraining order, how would that effect the property division? I don't think it would. Stalking him? Why? B/c you live in the same building? I found it odd, but Did he get a restraining order on you then, or do you simply fear he wants to?

i fear that he wants to.
when he sough ic himself, i don't know what he told his counsellor because she told him to pack an overnight bag in his car .. in case it got too stressful at home, he was to leave. and it messed me up because that kind of advice is reserved for battered wives. again, i didn't do anything .. i don't hit him, i don't pick fights with him, i gave him space when he needed it .. i moved out of our bedroom to give him space .. i did everything i could to make myself scarce .. and i'm an abuser? i'm 5'2" 100 lbs and he's 6'4" 190 lbs .. there's no way i can attack him. he must've made stuff up.

his mom makes stuff up and exaggerates the truth herself so should i be surprised that he would do such a thing? he's being guided by his mother so i can't sit back and assume he's not doing anything. i'm sure there's some plot to get me knocked off so he can claim everything.

before you give me your advice, please understand that i did not tell the full story. there are things that i have kept to myself because if this is a public forum and i don't want stuff on this public site that is too personal.

You said You've looked and looked for a "smoking gun" (ie OW) and have found none. Then Why keep looking? I mean What difference does it make now if your divorce can't be based on adultery? Isn't it possible you are looking for a reason NOT to try and reconcile? Just so I know, how'd he break the trust (other than wanting out of the M, b/c there's no OW and no lying that you've discussed here)?

if there was an OW, i wouldn't reconcile. i can't be with someone who has been with another woman. that's my issue to deal with. i don't have sex with someone who has had multiple partners. the risks, the fact that his thing has been in someone else's yoohoo .. you can bleach it to kill any trace of her but it wouldn't help.

May I assume something in the past leads you to worry about this that I simply didn't see in the posts, or are you totally over thinking this? "Slapping a restraining order" on you for merely contacting him isn't realistic. Either something is missing from the story, or you are doing some serious negative mind reading. I'd nip that in the bud.

i'm really good at figuring things out about him without digging through intel or whatnot. the amount of dirt i can get on him is frightening. and i could use it to my advantage if i'd like .. and i often think that he could take me out for having so much info on him. i know his dirty little secrets. i won't let them out but he probably fears i will leak his dirty laundry.