following u here as well ABG. Retrouvaille thru and thru, but truer words were never spoken. 100% agree. u have to choose to forgive then act on it. the decision to forgive is an extension of the decision to love.
Beautiful, SaveMM. Wow! i never thought when I asked those questions that I would read such heartfelt answers. I have tears in my eyes from Kalni, Cyrena and Save. Arnie, sorry, no tears.
Ok, Arnie, I think you may be right about there not being a forgiving personality, but if you had been reading this website in the past 6 months you would have seen some very unforgiving personalities, and that's what brought me to question it. I have seen people claim to reconcile who are so untrusting that they continue surveillance on the spouse. Forgiving? No, they recount time and again all the spouse did wrong and then aggrandize the acts so that they are tantamount to murder. And then, being ever helpful, they went from thread to thread reminding each person of the affronts committed by their spouses, to keep those hurts at the forefronts of their minds.
Kalni, your posts do make me feel sad because I was here all along while you fought to save this marriage, and now to win and still feel like you've lost. I wish I had an answer for you. And Cyrena, to think of all that you have been through and to be able to forgive so completely things that most people would think were unforgivable. And Save, keep going to Post. They will get to a session on intimacy. It is a difficult topic and not something easily addressed by others, but Retrouvaille will try to help you there, too. Human relations are so complicated!
Recovery from Infidelity as a Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder Dennis Ortman
Donna and Jim were soul mates. They met in high school, became sweethearts, and married soon after graduation. To their friends, they seemed to have the perfect marriage. When Donna stumbled upon Jim's affair with her best friend, she was devastated. She was obsessed with the betrayal and filled with rage. She had nightmares and flashbacks about the affair and complained to a friend, "Something inside me died, and I can't bring it back to life."
In my 14 years as a Roman Catholic priest, and 14 more as a practicing psychologist, I've heard many stories like Donna's. Many who discover a partner's infidelity have lasting reactions similar to post-traumatic stress disorder, like people whose lives have been threatened in war, natural disasters, violent crimes, domestic violence, or auto accidents. They are traumatized by the loss of partnership and security.
They are preoccupied with the betrayal and consumed by fear, anger, and helplessness. They have periods of emotional numbness and avoid anything that reminds them of the affair, yet relive the horror of the discovered adultery at unexpected times and suffer nightmares and flashbacks. They live with heightened anxiety, and dread another betrayal. Consequently, they withdraw from relationships and from life.
The recovery is arduous and can take years. In my experience, it requires three steps. The first is to reestablish a sense of security. Trauma victims are flooded by emotions and need stability before decisions can be made. Therapy, supportive relationships, and spiritual practices are essential ingredients. The second stage is to make a decision about the relationship. Honest and courageous reflection is needed to assess one's deepest desires, the partner's character, and what led to the rupture of the relationship. The third and lengthiest phase is the healing that can come only through forgiveness from the heart. The offended person who refuses to forgive will be imprisoned in resentment and rage.
Victims of adultery often blame themselves and must face their faults and limitations. Forgiving the adulterous partner may seem impossible, but is necessary for inner peace. Understanding what pain, suffering, and character flaws led to the affair can replace anger with compassion. In the end, only through forgiveness from the heart can one can be released to love again without fear.
The description of the feelings and state sounds very familiar to me. When I try to find what I need to forgive myself for, maybe selfishly I dont know- is not my shortcomings as partner. I do know what I did wrong, I actually often did all the things that books and writers describe as "love killers". I was judgemental, harsh, etc etc. But I know why I was like that. It was the only way I knew to try and get closer to my husband who because of his work and our schedules, had "abandoned me" for a long time. To me it was an unvoidable period in our life, until the problems with our kids would pass. We had a child centered marriage. So, I regret my way of approaching him (I was very stupid and running on emotions) but stangely, one of the things I cant seem to forgive myself about, is the fact that he fooled me for so long. I feel like I "helped him" destroy our M by being so naive and not realising sooner that he was just a man like many others.
When I heard OW's comment about me finally finding out "ohh she knew all along, this is just the confirmation" I felt rage. I knew there was someone that had attacted his interest, I knew there was someone -the soecific one- that gave him the strength and motive to leave us, I didnt for one minute believe our life would be seen under a awful light because of another woman. That our history was rewritten because of his love for her. I got the chicken and egg story completely the wrong way. Facts and dates show that our R started to deteriorate because of his affair. He "left me emotionally"- which triggered my bad reactions, after he had found her. The timeline is so telling. So, no I cant forgive myself for not waking up earlier. Maybe, and I believe that- if I knew then, we would be divorced now. Through reading and learning and this forum, I was able, I had time, to find some compassion for him. But still, I was such a fool. Thinking of both of them together, laughing behind my back, checking out MY schedule, my daily routines to arrange their secret meetings, the lies I never bothered to check etc etc, makes me furious. Pride?
Your sitch was not unlike mine - a child centred M - not knowing about a long standing A- planning behind my back - feeling laughed at - humiliation due to what seemed like everyone in H's business world knowing what was going on yet hiding it from me.....
I hate that he destroyed the exclusivity that our M gave us YET I have gotten to the forgiveness stage but it has taken a long time. Don't give up. Let him prove himself. My H started trying to show how much our M meant much sooner so perhaps forgiving him has been easier for me. I have hurled lots of abuse at him from time to time and he has taken it. He has absorbed my pain and acknowledged it - that truly has helped so much.
I think it is important not to expect too much from oneself sometimes. Yes forgiveness is a choice........but when you are 'able' to do it. I do not believe it can be forced - it has to come from one's heart. I also think one has to recognise one's limitations - hence the fact that I am unable to forgive OW. I no longer care about that......and perhaps I have heaped some of the blame and anger I felt at my H unjustly on to her....but if that has helped me in forgiving my H, ( who is the one who matters to me), then so be it. I am at peace with where I am currently; at peace but not complacent.
There have been so many fantastic posts on this thread. Thank you Lotus for giving me the words with which to start it off.
Last edited by saffie; 10/14/1011:40 AM.
Saffie me 46 H 46 M in 1986 D20,D18,S16,D13 H's A 01/05 to 07/06 H recommitted to M 07/06 renewed vows 09/06 Going from strength to strength
Sorry, Lotus, I'll just have to try and do better next time...
I believe that both the forgiving and the unforgiving personality are coming from the same emotional place, namely fear.
The one who forgives too easily and quickly tends towards people-pleasing and is often afraid of the conflict that ensues if they are completely honest about where they are (that would be me).
The unforgiving one is coming from a fear of being hurt (again) and their defense against that is to hold on to the hurt; if they forgive, then it feels too vulnerable and scary to let go (that would be my W).
As a "forgiving" type, I am learning to slow things down and process my own feelings more deeply before forgiving; as the "unforgiving" one, my W is learning to delve into her hurts, to express them, and ultimately forgive. I used to be "here, let me help you with that" - the effects of which are amusing in retrospect, but were rather painful at the time. Needless to say, I am learning to allow her to proceed at her (not my) pace.
Forgiveness is like exercising - it is very difficult to start with a huge weight or by running a marathon. One useful thing is to pick one (and only one) thing each day that my W has done that has annoyed me and forgive her for that. That is, to unconditionally release any negative thoughts I have. She (presumably) does the same.
It's sometimes an uphill struggle even with "small" things. The other night she was annoyed with something a friend of our son's did and was venting to me. I was trying to listen mindfully and validate her when something I said triggered her. She was upset and was yelling at me - and nothing I could do or say seemed to have any effect. I in turn got mad at her for misunderstanding my words. We wound up not speaking for the rest of the evening and went to bed mad. (Yeah, I know we're supposed to "never go to bed mad" - doesn't always work out that way!).
The next morning, I did some soul-searching and recognized that even though I had done nothing "wrong" to "deserve" her reaction, I had reacted to her reaction with a kind of holier-than-thou attitude. I then realized that her reaction was coming from her "old tapes" from the past, and really had nothing to do with me. So I forgave myself for my attitude that contributed to the conflict, and forgave her for her reactivity. Although we haven't discussed it yet, just that shift in attitude with forgiveness (which she likely has done as well) has made all the difference in how we have been since. In the past, even such a minor thing like this would have led to days of the "silent treatment."
The point being that the forgiveness "muscle" can be built up by starting with small things and moving to the bigger things.
Saffie, you are entirely right about not forcing it - the choice of forgiveness must be completely of one's own free will and (ideally) after having processed and acknowledged the hurt.
Interesting, my way of forgiving is very different from that. The thought of what I'm angry at comes into my head and I mentally call up either the memory of me doing something equally bad or him doing something nice. The positive cancels out the negative and I make the decision to let it go. I won't get angry about that thing. And it's gone. I will admit that I think the wrongs that I am faced with forgiving are easier to deal with than what Kalni, Cyrena and Saffie have dealt with. And for that, I am thankful. Things can always be worse.
