Kiss - Thank you for sharing with me. We are in a tough tough spot to say the least.
Talked with H last night and was completely relieved to find out that he was totally open and honest with the psychologist on Monday. He told me that he told him that he cheated on me and that he has a problem with desiring attention from other women in order to make himself feel better. (in addition to all of his other issues, of course)
It makes me feel so much better that he didn't hide anything. He also said to me, "you told me to be honest and I was - I can't get the help I need if I am not and end up getting answers to the wrong questions"
So, I have a call in to the psychologist and am waiting to hear back for my appointment.
Much better day today...and I slept well last night.
For NO reason I could understand, I got drawn into this thread, and was really surprised to read what you're going through.....and I know how you feel; different situation, SAME kind of deal.
You've raised a POSSIBILITY of what can happen after the exit from the tunnel of MLC; it can't simply be ignored and glossed over, least of all by me, who is/has been dealing with a similar situation.
This is a VERY real possibility. Doesn't mean that everyone will deal in this way, but it is good to know, just in case.
Just so everyone knows who is reading this, I did NOT know beforehand this could happen....I never got everything in one sitting; it trickled down over the years. To know TOO much at one time, is to risk a LBS bolting and running away.
Jennifer, don't feel alone. I'd always wondered if anyone else had experienced what I have been experiencing for the past 6 years; what you describe is very similar to what my husband did 1 year and 10 months after he exited the tunnel.
He exited in late 2002, I went on into my transition; and things had seemed to be fine to begin with; we were rebuilding steadily, and our journeys, as a result of his crisis finished within weeks of each other.
But in September of 2004, something happened; there appeared to be a "going back" to what was; and he seemed to be going backward instead of forward.
At first I was at a loss, then my transition kicked into forward gear; and I went deep into it for 6 years; facing ALL I needed to face within myself.
Some things I remember, some things I don't; but when I came out completely, after completing the settling down process in late 2008/early 2009, I knew something was wrong; things definitely weren't as I'd left them; and my husband was in full rebellion.
Against what or who, I wasn't sure to begin with. Truthfully, I was puzzled, and when I prayed about it, the Lord began to open my understanding, somewhat, but I was having trouble comprehending what I was seeing.
I understood that this was NOT supposed to happen, but it did.
I searched myself first to see if it was something I needed to do, and concluded that it was NOT...it was HIM, not me.
Still, I prayed about it, getting part of the answer here, but more of it, as I opened myself to a greater understanding.
I felt like a guinea pig in a mad experiment, but it was what it was, and it is what it is, now.
I have come to understand in the past few months that it is not ONLY important to simply face the straightforward issues of the MLC tunnel; the MLC'er must also face the aspects, as well...and if ANY issues are "left over" coming out; a person is thrown into a different kind of tunnel; NOT the same one.
This is not an extension of MLC by any means, no matter what anyone might argue.
It is ENTIRELY possible to come through with an emotional block; that creates this left over issue or issues after trying to go through the settling down process and failing.
This did NOT happen to me, because during my transition I faced EVERYTHING; and nothing was left to chance; so, I didn't do this
This does NOT mean his processing was interrupted; on the contrary; it means that he is forced to face these additional issues that were NOT faced during the initial MLC; CONTINUING to process through...depending upon the severity of these "left over" issues/issue; it can go on for a number of weeks, months or even years.
Again, it is up to the person going through this extended period of time.
That is why your husband is NOT blaming you this time; though he questions his feelings for you. He had ALREADY faced what he'd had to face in regards to making a firm decision to stay with his marriage, job, life, etc.....so, he DOES know this is HIM and not you.
He's very frightened, looking at you for help; as he's seeing this in a reality he'd never seen it in before; and it's good that he's going for help.
All you can do is ride this out with him; you have NOTHING else you need to learn; you can only continue to rely on the lessons you learned during his time within the MLC tunnel.
IF he tries to connect with another woman through an EA; do NOT allow him to do this; this is NOT the same crisis he went through before, and you have MORE power than you had previously.
You do NOT have to back away from him like you did before...it truly IS different in this type of go around.
Sure, he could leave any time he wanted to, notwithstanding....yet, your help is important to him; you're his wife, still his stanchion, just like before.
It would be perfectly acceptable to come down hard on him, drawing a firm line on any kind of bad behavior that he exhibits.
Different rules apply here, because they are even MORE aware of what they are doing during this period of time; their awareness is clear, NOT foggy. Just so you know.
The reason I say this these things; I had to break up an EA during that time; and I had to constantly stay on him, making him do what was right by me; and I KNEW with a certainty that he KNEW exactly what he was doing.
When he argued, there was NONE of the crazymaking or spewing they do within the MLC....he sounded like a man that KNEW exactly what he was about; and he got quite upset with me, but went no farther, except to do what I actually demanded of him.
He was trying to act like he wasn't married; much like a WAS; and I treated him like a WAS; taking NO crap from him.
Hey, this was war, and I was taking NO prisoners; it was all or death...which way it went, didn't matter to me.
I ALMOST made him leave; because the Lord had indicated this might be a possibility; yet, it didn't happen. I was paying ALL the bills, while he was going through his money like crazy After I came down on him very hard about not pulling his weight once again, and he saw that I meant business, he started falling in line within that area.
He was ignoring my boundaries, in full rebellion, so I had to become a very harsh person, totally against my nature...to get through to him....and I did, a little at a time; especially in the months before he broke his ankle. THAT got his attention, moved him forward, and by now, he's coming on out; the changes are ones I'd seen before when he'd exited the tunnel in late 2002. Before it was all over with, he was seeing me as "Mom", and you would NOT believe the tattling he was doing on our son; trying to cause trouble.
Some of it, I missed, as I was going through my transition, but some of it, I had to deal with in an ongoing sort of way.
It really does look like the tunnel all over again, but with a different set of rules this go around.
Believe me, I have been there; and am just now watching my husband come through this different type of tunnel as we speak.
His leftover issue was his parents divorce when he was 7, and that 7 year old child made an appearance; staying out front while the man hid from me, as the man didn't know what to do.
My boundaries were hard as a rock, and I was NOT afraid he would leave....intuitively, I knew he would NOT.
I didn't let any grass grow under my feet when my husband did things I didn't like....I went right after him.
As each person is different each extended time to face missed issues is different; and as long as your husband is getting help; I'd simply keep an eye on him.
This is a different kind of running away than he did before; and the handling of this would be different.
Quite honestly, I'd hoped I would be the only one who'd had to deal with this, and I'm sorry you're having to deal in this way.
You're not in the wrong place; there's just a lack of information, regarding something like this happening.
I'd honestly hoped I would not have to bring this out; but I couldn't make you think you were all alone...you're not.
As a matter of fact, there's NOTHING in the way of research on this extended time that can happen; believe me, I had looked to see BEFORE I came here back in February.
All I know is what I've dealt with in the past 6 years.
I fully realize what I'm outlining from the recent past, seems to be worse than what you are dealing with currently, but ones that deal and have dealt with this extended time know it carries it's own brand of h-e-double hockey sticks...and is NO easier to deal with.
Initially, I came back here because of that....and ended up advising on MLC once again.
No worries, though; we'll make it through this, and get back on track in time.
There, you have it; HB came back with a few issues occurring AFTER the initial tunnel..did this mean I failed? NO, I did NOT fail; I took the journey, made the changes, did all I was supposed to do.
I was successful as an individual, in spite of what happened afterward.
But I was NEVER to blame; it was MY husband that failed to face everything at one time, not me.
I'm still with him; and I guess that says something for me; but in NO way does it say that I'm weak; not at all.
It takes MORE strength to stand, than it does to walk away, and I will tell you all one more thing; I was and STILL am a STANDER; not because I'm "addicted" to my husband, but because I chose to continue to honor my vows that I took over 25 years ago, now.
Those vows include "for better OR for worse"; I've never forgotten that.
Only God knows what the future holds, and though I don't know what tomorrow will bring, I trust HIM with my life.
I know with a certainty that ALL things happen for a reason. I may not understand that reason, but again, what I don't understand, I will lay at His feet to contend with.
Hang in there, Jennifer; the road is sometimes very long, but know that God continues to be there; and He works within the background.
Don't give up; there's still hope as long as you love your husband, and are willing to help him through once again.
I will bookmark this thread, looking in on you, as I can.
Much love, HB
Remember, as each person is different, every MLC/Transition is different..what works for one may not work for another. Most of the time it is trial and error for ALL involved.
HB - Thank you so much for sharing with me. I really, really appreciate it. I can't write much at the moment because I am at work. But I wanted to mention something...
You said do not allow him to connect with other women...how do I do that when it has already happened over the past 4 years, several times, with several women and is still on-going. Did you happen to read what I posted yesterday that he told the psych. that he cheated on me and has issues with always desiring other women to make himself feel better? Also, he is not staying at home right now, as of last Friday. I do not have control over anything he does. How do I stop him from doing what he wants to do? I can only control myself, I can't control someone else. He says he knows its wrong but does it anyway.
This morning I get a text from him asking me how I am. I said ok - how r u? He said "Horrible. F-ed up mentally in the my head and shoulder/neck are killing me" I said "what's going on in your head? Did something happen?" He said "I just don't know what I want or what I should do" and I replied "As far as what?" and he said "everything" - I said "sorry you feel the way you do" and he said "Me too" - then a little time went by and I know this was probably wrong but I texted "I guess you're finding life without me is making you happier?" and he just texted me now "Not that at all"
Should I ask him to come home? I'm so lost because I also don't want to be a doormat - having it seem that I am accepting of his behavior or the way he is acting towards me - blank, lifeless, confused, depressed. No matter what I just don't see how I can MAKE him stop that "other women" crap.
Again, thank you HB for sharing with me. I need to take more time to read and absorb your sitch. Please do check on me - I can't thank you enough for caring.
Jennifer...I dont give advice much, but from my own experience I dont think I would ask him to come home right now. He clearly isnt ready. I know i made a mistake in letting my H come home before he had his issues straightened out. Give it more time.
Kissak
"What time I am afraid, I will trust in thee." Psalms 56:3 M-37 H-37 S-10, D-15 M- 1993 First bomb- 12/23/06 Came and went too MANY times! Gone again 10-25-10
You said do not allow him to connect with other women...how do I do that when it has already happened over the past 4 years, several times, with several women and is still on-going. Did you happen to read what I posted yesterday that he told the psych. that he cheated on me and has issues with always desiring other women to make himself feel better? Also, he is not staying at home right now, as of last Friday. I do not have control over anything he does. How do I stop him from doing what he wants to do? I can only control myself, I can't control someone else. He says he knows its wrong but does it anyway.
This is where your boundaries come in; as long as he is doing things such as this, there is NO relationship with YOU.
You cannot control what he does, but you CAN control what YOU do.
I made it very plain that I would NOT have a relationship/marriage with my husband as long as he was having the EA he was having with another woman.
Mine had had an affair while within the tunnel that went to a PA; but that was NOT repeated in this latter time.
My husband had not left home, but I turned my back on him after setting this boundary; I KNEW he knew what he was doing was wrong; taking energy out of the marriage and putting it somewhere else.
In the interim, I went completely COLD on him; not contacting him, forcing him to pursue me, wouldn't answer the phone; wouldn't talk to him.
He and I are both truck drivers....the no contact was necessary, as I was NOT going to sacrifice my self respect, he was NOT going to walk on me like that.
It scared him, my actions told him he would lose me if he didn't do something.
It confused me at the time, but I laid down boundaries very firmly; and he got very upset with me about it...yet, I knew it had gotten to a point it didn't matter to me. He was either going to straighten up or leave, however it went.
He ended up straightening out, because he honestly did not want to lose me....I made it clear that this would be up to him.
He cut all contact; and even switched SIM cards with me, so I had his cell number, and he had mine.
She didn't try too many times before she stopped calling.
I didn't have to deal with another.
Your husband is clearly NOT ready to come home, and I wouldn't ask him to. He has many things to work through at the moment.
If you ask him to come home and he does; he might cut and run again, if he cannot accept your boundaries.
He might do that, anyway; but that would NOT be your problem, it would be HIS.
But the line clearly needs to be drawn; boundaries are not for him, but for YOU.
You have to decide what's best for YOU; because this decision is clearly up to you.
He says he knows it's wrong,but does it anyway; that should tell you he's AWARE of what he is doing; and your boundary should be laid clearly.
This is a cycle and he's cycling back and forth throughout.
Quote:
This morning I get a text from him asking me how I am. I said ok - how r u? He said "Horrible. F-ed up mentally in the my head and shoulder/neck are killing me" I said "what's going on in your head? Did something happen?" He said "I just don't know what I want or what I should do" and I replied "As far as what?" and he said "everything" - I said "sorry you feel the way you do" and he said "Me too" - then a little time went by and I know this was probably wrong but I texted "I guess you're finding life without me is making you happier?" and he just texted me now "Not that at all"
No, what you said was NOT wrong; you were testing the waters to see where he stands.
He's definitely got some serious problems, but he's still coming back to you. He wants you, but seems to be seriously messed up in the head.
I believe someone mentioned possible sexual addiction; and that's also possible.
Someone also mentioned he may not have left the Replay stage; and that is also entirely possible.
I realize this is very confusing; but I'm advising you to lay boundaries that should have been laid long ago.
The last time I checked, marriage was for TWO people, not three or four or five.
He still wants you, that much is evident; but you cannot possibly be expected to accept what's happening with him.
Keep us posted on how it goes with the psychologist.
Give it time; time is what you have...you will know if the ties will need to be cut permanently, there are people that cannot be helped no matter what you do.
Food for thought; in some cases you can only go so far before you have to admit to yourself that you've done all you can do, and cannot do any more.
Since your husband is admitting his issues, there's a good chance that he will come through and heal.
In the meantime, you'll need to wait and watch, and see what happens.
Keep us posted.
Remember, as each person is different, every MLC/Transition is different..what works for one may not work for another. Most of the time it is trial and error for ALL involved.
Yes, I am mad at myself for not setting boundaries a long time ago. I guess I could consider myself an enabler at this point. It's just that the different times that I confronted him about inappropriate emails he would promise it wouldn't happen again. And when the EA began rather quickly the beginning of this year, I found out right away and he ended it immediately and was supposed to start counseling - he went for 2 sessions and never went back because we couldn't afford that particular Dr as he wasn't in-network on my insurance. I feel that maybe I should have been harder on him about continuing to talk to a therapist and finding one in-network instead of letting it go and thinking things were going to be okay. Then, a few months later, I found that he contacted her again or she him, I am not sure of the details. And he gave me the excuse that she sent someone into his store - which I flipped my lid about because she shouldn't be sending anyone anywhere with regard to my husband bottom line - I said "how nice, things between you and her are just fine and your wife sits here all screwed up in the head?"...the thing is, I can only imagine what I DON'T know.
You're right I may get to a point where there is nothing else I can do. The end of my rope, so to speak. I can't live like that anymore - and it's either going to change or we are done. He knows that, I have said those exact words to him.
You're right I may get to a point where there is nothing else I can do. The end of my rope, so to speak. I can't live like that anymore - and it's either going to change or we are done. He knows that, I have said those exact words to him.
Then, you've effectively put the ball in HIS court.
Was this the point where he decided to get help? I certainly hope so, as I should think you've taken all you can take of his bad behavior.
You should probably have come down on him much harder than you did, but to beat yourself up about that now, is the same as crying over spilled milk.
Pick yourself up, dust yourself off, forgive yourself for being human and move forward, Jennifer.
At the time you were letting things go, you thought were doing the right thing...and sometimes it's hard to know what to do at times.
You take a chance, either way you decide to go; you set boundaries, you could lose them, you don't set boundaries you could STILL lose them...so you don't have anything to lose by setting healthy boundaries for your own protection.
You hope they come out of it, but when you see a cycle beginning; boundaries are the first thing you should do.
It's not too late; he's getting help for his problem.
Now, you wait and watch to see what happens next.
I only hope he sees the light of day; and begins to face his problem...it is the first step toward healing within himself.
Keep us posted.
Remember, as each person is different, every MLC/Transition is different..what works for one may not work for another. Most of the time it is trial and error for ALL involved.
Jennifer, I am so sorry that you find yourself in this sitch but I can relate to all you're going through. H and I R in May 2009 and during most of this period he has continued with similar behaviours as you've described above. Although I have put boundaries in place, I have not been consistent in following through. If you are going to set a boundary with your H, please ensure you follow through otherwise he will not take you seriously and it ends up becoming a vicious cycle. At this point since he's already staying elsewhere, I don't think you should ask him to come home. He needs to work through HIS unresolved issues and it's much healthier for you that he's out of the house. I hope he gets the help he needs. I wish my H would agree to seek IC/MC.
Me47 H46 S13 M16 Piecing since May/09
"Life is 10% what happens to us and 90% how we react to it." Lou Holtz
Thanks HB for your support, I appreciate you checking in on me. As far as his decision to seek help, well, that decision was made in August, partly because he is so depressed and doesn't know how to fix it and partly because I suggested it - it wasn't a 'get help or we are done' type of thing, if that's what you're asking.
H was here last night with the kids because I went out with a girlfriend. We talked about stuff this morning, initiated by him. He basically told me he doesn't know how to stop the "OW" stuff - that as long as he has all of the negative going on in his head, it continues. He is still bringing up our marital issues from the past, (the ones that I worked on and fixed, and while for the past 4 years he told me our R has never been better - so confusing really), the reason we separated 4 years ago, and tells me he just can't get it all out of his head and that is part of the reason why he does what he does. So, he actually IS indirectly still blaming me for some of the negative he speaks of. Not on the forefront like before but indirectly.
And my boundaries are clear. We do not have a R aside from dealing with the kids. I cried and said "my husband doesn't love me enough to stop doing the wrong thing, that hurts, alot" He was crying, alot. Saying he wishes things were different and this isn't how he wants things to be. That he hopes I know he isn't doing anything intentionally against me. He said he was sorry that he has put us in this situation.
He told our S this morning that he has some issues in his head that need to be worked on, that he has made some bad decisions, and he is not around much so that mommy and daddy don't argue. That it isn't S fault and he didn't do anything wrong. He also told him that mommy didn't do anything wrong.
He has another appt. tmw morning with the counselor. And at this point, I feel rather...helpless.
I honestly do not know what if anything, I can do. He doesn't even seem to care that he is losing his wife.
I honestly do not know what if anything, I can do. He doesn't even seem to care that he is losing his wife.
Jennifer, It sounds to me like he does care. He's just in so deep he can't see the forest through the trees. He hasn't faced his issues from within and it still keeps him spinning. That's why he still blames you indirectly for the problems.
Hopefully he's got a good IC that can help him to face and work out those issues.
There really is nothing you can do to fix this for him. It's all got to come from himself. It sounds as though he may be starting to realize they are his issues.
Step back off the rollercoaster. It's going to take time and patience on your part to let your H finish his journey, but it has to be done by himself.
When he's through, he may come looking for you and then you'll have some decisions to make.
