I keep struggling with the balance of being helpful/responsive (180ing my previous neglect/unavailability) vs. being pursuing/solicitous/supplicating.
Man, that IS one of THE toughest things in all of DBing. In my opinion, after reading all of your most recent posts, you've swung a little too far in the other direction, Busto (foot rubs? Seriously?? c'mon . . . ). I think the post-surgery PHYSICAL stuff is okay, but you're also rescuing her from parenting, and she needs to feel what it's like to parent without you.
On a scale from 1 to 10, with 1 being totally supplicating and 10 being totally distant/hardass, I'd say -- at this stage -- you want to be about a "4" (I'd normally say 5 or 6, but I'm taking your word that your past marital style was too controlling and emotionally distant). So, a "4". But right now, you seem to be about an "2."
Go back and re-read what you were doing that was WORKING, and get back to being "that guy."
I'd be a little more picky with what things you help her with. Carrying files, I get that, but emptying the dishwasher and making her tea three weeks after a breast reduction??? I never had that surgery, but one week after my second c-section I was taking care of a newborn and a 22 month old, lifting 26lbs of her out of the crib and into the bath. The only things I didn't do until 2-3 weeks out were carry laundry baskets and tried not to vacuum (pulling on the abs in that activity). She knew when the surgery was and she wanted to move out so she will have to figure out how to make her new life work. I also understand that goes against your 180 about not neglecting her, I just think she is taking it too far.
I'd choose to help her on activities you really think she cannot do, don't go out of your way to brew some tea. I'd also consider when they are beneficial to you. If you go over to set up something for your kids room that is for them. If you go over at 6pm and get to have a family dinner, that is also a bonus for you. If she has you come over to be her nursemaid when the kids are asleep, you don't get to see them at all, not as much of a bonus.
Sorry if that comes off harsh, I just really feel like she is taking advantage of this post surgery excuse! I have a friend that had a reduction and I think she said it was a pretty simple and quick procedure and I don't think 3 weeks out she would be like that. (Now if she has an infection or complications, that is totally different.)
Me 32 H 32 Ds 3.5 and 1.5 M 5 years, T 14 years EA/Bomb: 7/1/10 PA revealed: 9/14/10 Legally separated: 10/01/10
M22,H45,W45 S21/18D12 Retain faith that you will prevail in the end, regardless of the difficulties and at the same time confront the most brutal facts of your current reality, whatever they might be.
Hehe, ya ya, I hear ya guys re: the oversupplication.
I think there are a few different dynamics at work here.
1) She IS and always has been a bit of a drama queen. I'm ok with that NOW (wasn't before), that's who she is. She's always tended to have a low pain tolerance and sought attention and support when she has felt stressed or overwhelmed with stuff. Before, as Puppy said, I was at the other end of the pendulum in being not responsive and non-supportive (and even CRITICAL of her for being a drama queen). So, I have swung too far the other way now.
2) The surgery was originally scheduled to happen before she moved out, but got pushed back because of insurance reasons. While the timing was elective, the procedure was judged as being medically necessary by insurance because her knockers were giving her back problems (32G pre-surg). I had agreed to be caregiver for her back in March (pre-separation), so in some ways I feel like I was standing by my word to her by caregiving for her now. The balance I need to do better with is where the reasonable caregiving stops and the doormatting begins, and y'all's input helps.
3) I like the emphasis on helping with physical stuff you guys make. With the boob reduction, they recommended avoiding any repetitive motions involving the upper body, especially things involving overhead motions. That's where the dishwasher comes in (think of stretching up to put dishes away in overhead cabinets). That also covers vacuuming (which I'm gonna do later today), putting things up on walls involving screwing, hammering, etc; and helping PHYSICALLY with our squirmy little ones (getting them dressed, bathing them, putting them in car, etc.). I'm guessing after another 1-2 weeks of this, there will be no more medical reason for this. I am considering going to her next doctor's follow-up in 1-2 weeks to see if the doctor can clarify for each of us what activities she is physically capable of doing given her current recovery level. Thoughts?
4) I also like the emphasis on looking out for myself and my own needs in the context of doing this. I definitely get more time with kids from doing this, and she also gives me little desserts when I come over around dinner time and gives me breakfast if I come over in AM.
5) Ah, the foot rubs. Massages for us in the past were a form of foreplay. With the footrubs recently, I had her all lotioned up and was massaging her from her pelvis, thighs and hips to her feet. I guess I should stop since it's not going anywhere and just leaves her feeling in control and me frustrated at the end of everything.
What about like last night when she does stuff like asks me to rub her back cause it hurts from her looking at files all day. Then when I rub her back and work down to the lower part of her back she asks me to rub her a$$ more? She keeps saying how good it feels and I grab both cheeks and work them over good in my hands. Then when I move back to her back she asks for more a$$ rubbing. I mean WTF??? While I was doing it I thought, hey I don't mind this, I'm grabbing some booty and helping her feel better. But is that supplicating?? I don't see it as a boundary for me (to rub or not rub a$$), but it just seems a little weird that my sep W wants me to rub her a$$??
Me-53 W-49 D22,D18,D15 T-Since-12/2001 Married-9/2004 She Moved Out-5/28/2010 Piecing start-04/2011 Now-together Thread http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2079304
What about like last night when she does stuff like asks me to rub her back cause it hurts from her looking at files all day. Then when I rub her back and work down to the lower part of her back she asks me to rub her a$$ more? She keeps saying how good it feels and I grab both cheeks and work them over good in my hands. Then when I move back to her back she asks for more a$$ rubbing. I mean WTF??? While I was doing it I thought, hey I don't mind this, I'm grabbing some booty and helping her feel better. But is that supplicating?? I don't see it as a boundary for me (to rub or not rub a$$), but it just seems a little weird that my sep W wants me to rub her a$$??
One thing I've embraced in the last two months is that nothing is truly weird when it comes to our spouse's behaviour. From your wife's ass rubbing to my wife's runway modeling lingerie, to John's wife waxing and swapping out panties. If there's anything sexual involved, it'll be weird as hell.
From your wife's ass rubbing to my wife's runway modeling lingerie, to John's wife waxing and swapping out panties. If there's anything sexual involved, it'll be weird as hell.
It's not weird it's predictable. There is a reason these women behave this way.
M22,H45,W45 S21/18D12 Retain faith that you will prevail in the end, regardless of the difficulties and at the same time confront the most brutal facts of your current reality, whatever they might be.
5) Ah, the foot rubs. Massages for us in the past were a form of foreplay. With the footrubs recently, I had her all lotioned up and was massaging her from her pelvis, thighs and hips to her feet. I guess I should stop since it's not going anywhere and just leaves her feeling in control and me frustrated at the end of everything.
What about like last night when she does stuff like asks me to rub her back cause it hurts from her looking at files all day. Then when I rub her back and work down to the lower part of her back she asks me to rub her a$$ more? She keeps saying how good it feels and I grab both cheeks and work them over good in my hands. Then when I move back to her back she asks for more a$$ rubbing. I mean WTF??? While I was doing it I thought, hey I don't mind this, I'm grabbing some booty and helping her feel better. But is that supplicating?? I don't see it as a boundary for me (to rub or not rub a$$), but it just seems a little weird that my sep W wants me to rub her a$$??
You don't mind rubbing her a$$ but yet you still have a feeling of being short changed, a feeling in your stomach area that says you are still being taken advantage of, a feeling that says you are being trained to believe that rubbing her feet is actually your reward not your wife's for your good behavior.
I have a fair amount of landscaping that needs to be done in my backyard, give me enough time, I will make you feel like I am rewarding you for allowing you to do this work and then maybe even get you to pay me for allowing you to do this landscaping work in my backyard ;-)
Your wife enjoys teasing you, it's an ego boost for her, she receives a lot of satisfaction from being able to pull your strings and make you do what she wants you to do. Since it's very easy for her to control you and your behavior, even though she enjoys the back rubs, the a$$ rubs, the foot rubs, do you believe her respect for you is growing during all of this activity or diminishing?
Can she love you if she doesn't respect you?
You are not a challenge, you do everything she asks and more.
Do you ever ask her for back rubs? Do you enjoy back rubs? Has she offered to give you back rubs, foot rubs, a$$ rubs?
If the answer is NO, have you asked yourself why not? She obviously knows these things are pleasurable, she enjoys them. I'm sure she knows that you would enjoy a back rub.
Here's a test...
tonight, tell her you're exhausted from work, you have a lot of lower back pain and would love a back rub to help relieve that tension in your lower back.
What will her response be?
"I'm tired"
"YOUR BACK?! Not really in the mood to rub YOUR back"
"I don't really feel comfortable rubbing your back, maybe things are moving too quickly, I don't want to give you false hopes about us, etc. etc."
Any other variations of the above 3 themes is also to be expected ;-)
One thing I've embraced in the last two months is that nothing is truly weird when it comes to our spouse's behaviour. From your wife's ass rubbing to my wife's runway modeling lingerie, to John's wife waxing and swapping out panties. If there's anything sexual involved, it'll be weird as hell.
John here. Waxer of nether regions extroidinaire and panty show participant. Nothing you W does sexually should suprise you. She's a sexual being. But, she is confused and highly sporadic. Don't read into anything they do. It's futile.
----"Et tu, Brute?"---- me:28 W:24 S4 T:6 M:4 EA Exposed: 5/21/10 Bomb: 6/20/10 (Father's Day) NC w/ OM: 7/10/10 W moved out 8/21/10 http://bit.ly/aOrZne - My sitch
4) I also like the emphasis on looking out for myself and my own needs in the context of doing this. I definitely get more time with kids from doing this, and she also gives me little desserts when I come over around dinner time and gives me breakfast if I come over in AM.
How often does she invite you over for dinner so that you can share a meal with your children and her?
Giving you little desserts almost sounds as if she's giving you treats for being a good little doggy, it's not a nice comparison to be made but something that sticks out to me.
