Has she given up the OM? She needs to whether you want to work it out or not. That would show some commitment on her part.
Her letter and what she articulated rings a bell for me. I did the same thing to my wife by having an affair. I felt I loved the OW but I made a choice to choose my family and marriage.
Once I did that, I woke up to what I did and what I lost. During the affair, nothing else mattered.
What I'm saying is that people can and do change, and the changes can be real.
No she has not given him up, I don't think she feels its something she wants to do if she can't get committment from me to try to work this out. I feel she wants me to basically swallow all pride in this, commit to take her back and work on it, and then she "will" do it. Basically the 1-2-2-1 vs 1-2-1-2 scenario I talked about. That only shows to me she is still a cake eater, but maybe now just a much more remorseful one than before. I couldn't promise her anything right now, since there are major trust issues. Giving OM up could only be the first step, as far as I can see it. Really hard to say if there can be any more steps, but that's the only chance.
I just feel like its too late for that, I have been dealing with this OM garbage for 1.5 years now..and made ultimatums a long time ago. Obviously, we know those don't work....but I am simply drained at the thought of "seeing if" she will give him up this time if she says she will. She's my wife, not my child. I shouldn't have to devote all my time to checking up on her and researching her transparency. That's no more of a way to live life than it is to be in the dark and blind sided by extracurricular activity. What I'm really trying to understand is, does anything in her letter jump out as an extraordinary breakthrough , like the ball really is back in my court and I am being foolish not to take her back and try.
M-34 XW-32 D-7 Found OM's presence 4/09 Separated 12/09 Divorced 8/10 GREAT relationship as coparents since 8/10
I read her letter -- twice. And here's what I think:
I think she loves you.
I think she is sincere in the thoughts she is expressing.
I also, however, still think she has it precisely BACKWARDS. If it were me, I would think carefully about it -- as Greek advises -- and then I'd probably reply "I'm sorry, wife, but you still need to make a decision here to end all contact with OM. Call it '1-2-1-2' , '1-2-2-1' or whatever you want to call it, but I have no interest in staying in a marriage with someone who's basically telling me I'm their second choice.
End your affair, and we'll talk. I think you'll find me, at that point, ready and willing to address all issues -- including my own."
I need you to give up act 2 before I can start to fix what was wrong with act 1. She, though, has seemed to think I needed to show her something that would make her believe things would be different-in other words, fix act 1 before she would give up act 2.
OK, here's the distinction, Kartman:
YES, you do need to demonstrate to her that you "get it" -- your role in the dysfunction in your marriage, prior to her affair. You need to admit where you went wrong, acknowledge it, and demonstrate that you "get it" and are working on those issues . . . to become a better Kartman.
And then, whether or not those improvements -- the "new Kartman" -- get to be with HER, is COMPLETELY UP TO HER, and the decision she makes about whether or not to end her affair!
In other words, YES, she sees some hope, that things will be different. But she sees that hope in the changes you are making FOR YOURSELF, and in your mature acknowledgement to her that you have made mistakes in your marriage. But that awareness is a completely separate issue from HER DECISION.
Her decision is one of basic fidelity: will you honor our marriage vows, and come back and work on our marriage with me, or won't you?
So she can wait to SEE the changes you are making -- but she needs to know that that comes with a risk, and that is that you may lose what is left of your love for her while she tarries. Or, she can COMMIT NOW, end her affair, come back and work on the marriage with you.
"Sorry dear, that's a beautiful and heartfelt letter, but the ball is STILL in your court. That's just the way it is."
It's a great letter, Chuck. But it's still a TEST. Perhaps the biggest test Kartman has faced in his life so far.
Settle for sentiment, with no commitment? Or hold out for the REAL prize?
Here's a story from my own life: when I met the fetching Mrs. Puppy, she was engaged. Horribly unhappy; the guy was a real loser. We quickly hit it off, and it was obvious we both really cared for each other. We worked together, and started having lots of phone calls while her boyfriend went to night classes. She was miserable, and wanted to dump the guy, but she was looking for reassurances that I'd be there for her if she did. She didn't want to be alone.
I told her: "You need to dump him BECAUSE IT'S THE RIGHT THING TO DO. For YOU. Whether or not I'm there, I make no promises."
She did (dump him, that is), and we did end up dating and eventually got engaged and got married. Today, we have four children and one beautiful new granddaughter. But I wasn't going to let her waffle on doing THE RIGHT THING.
The problem is, it's kind of like the saying "if you have to ask, it loses all meaning." Over the course of 1.5 years, I have done everything I could think of. She actually first asked about 1.5 years ago permission to go to the movies with the guy "as friends", to which I of course told her would not be ok. Since then she hasn't listened to a thing I said...for a long time I did all the wrong things, until I discovered sites like this and quit chasing her. Got a life to the best of my abilities and have made quite a few good male friends to fill the void. I know I will be ok if this doesn't work out, but that's always easy to say now.
But as far as her giving up OM goes, I tried everything....I told her no, I affirmatively told her no, I gave her ultimatums as long ago as new years day to quit this, in my most embarassing times I begged and pleaded, I acted indifferent, I suggested we spend more time together, I suggested we spend less time together, I suggested we spend no time together, I told her repeatedly you have to give him up before I can have any heart for working on this, I told her as I've posted here before, I can't see talking about the two of us when there are three of us, I talked to her about it as I spied, I quit spying and talked to her with more innocence, you name it, I've done it. The only thing I haven't done is actually tell her what she says she wants in that letter, and that is to try and take a leap of faith that she will give him up.
And I still say NO DICE to that. But it's hard. I second guess myself particualrly where my daughter is concerned. But that tells me something to, it's not my wife that is my first worry, it is my daughter. Not saying that's misprioritized, but the gap in my worry is significant. It doesn't help that all the while I feel like I am just trying to push her and coerce her into giving up OM. It needs to be from her heart, not from my wishes.
It is good to see that I'm not the only one who thinks she has it backwards. I take no joy in that though, it just confirms how bad the situation still is.
M-34 XW-32 D-7 Found OM's presence 4/09 Separated 12/09 Divorced 8/10 GREAT relationship as coparents since 8/10
I agree with you that the OM has to go FIRST. I just don't see my W saying, "I want to be with YOU" anytime soon.
Half the time I can't see the forest through the trees. That's why I come to this site for clarification.
Heck, most of us with 20+ years of marriage know little about dating, courting, sparking, or whatever else you want to call it since it has been so long. We are old fogies.
When I married my 18 year old W...what did I know about communication and giving my undivided attention?
GKM, I'd let her stew about your decision for a while. She has let you stew with the sitch for a very long time. Think it through and we will support you!
Me 44, W 39, S 6, D 6, M 21 Bomb June 18, 2010 I filed D July 20, 2010 W filed counter suit Aug 2 Rings came off Aug 5, 2010
But as far as her giving up OM goes, I tried everything....I told her no, I affirmatively told her no, I gave her ultimatums as long ago as new years day to quit this, in my most embarassing times I begged and pleaded, I acted indifferent, I suggested we spend more time together, I suggested we spend less time together, I suggested we spend no time together, I told her repeatedly you have to give him up before I can have any heart for working on this, I told her as I've posted here before, I can't see talking about the two of us when there are three of us, I talked to her about it as I spied, I quit spying and talked to her with more innocence, you name it, I've done it. The only thing I haven't done is actually tell her what she says she wants in that letter, and that is to try and take a leap of faith that she will give him up.
I started to read it last night. I agree that the only way for her to truly have the love and interest in me that she needs is for her to be set free completely. Separation is not enough, she'd have to actually have a relationship with this idiot and find out she's as miserable with him in the long run as she was with me. She just can't see it now because he's much older and has no kids and has the "luxury" to have time apart from her once they get a bit tired of being around each other. They don't live like married people, they live like college kids. They'll both see, I always think. He'll see why someone can have problems in a relationship with her, and she'll see that our marriage problems will probably be similar with another guy too, she just sees him as an escape now since they have no real commitment to each other.
But maybe not, perhaps they are just a better match. I'm okay with that thought, what I'm not okay with is thinking that I am just letting this happen to my family, if indeed she is throwing me the most legitimate reason I have had in 1.5 years to make things work. I can let her go, but the thought of letting my family go is just killing me.
But she has had tons of opportunities to give OM up, but has never done it. There is no sign of her ACTUALLY doing it voluntarily, which is what counts. I guess that's going to have to be how the story is written, I can't promise her how hard I'd try even with him out of the picture. But there is no way I'll even consider trying with him in it. Guess I'm losing my family then. It's pretty cut and dry. I would think so if I were an outsider to the situation. I wonder why its such a gray area when you are in it.
M-34 XW-32 D-7 Found OM's presence 4/09 Separated 12/09 Divorced 8/10 GREAT relationship as coparents since 8/10
