ok ll - this is gonna sound choppy, but i want to get it out while it's in my head, but it's not all that coherent, so maybe you and i can work thru this together, if you wouldn't mind ok?
Quote: you are talking to a latch key kid!
yup, ok, this is making far more sense to me. so was i, but my mom and dad got divorced when i was three so i didn't know any father. i joke around to this day that i wasn't raised by my mom cause she had her own life and i lived alot of time with my sister (15 years my senior)
you see ll, whenever i read your threads, i feel so in tune to what you are saying - the whole business of feeling taken advantage of, feeling like i am doing all the work, husband not living up to expectations
i am starting to believe that because of my upbringing i feel this way. i thought for the longest time that since my two step sons weren't mine that was the reason i felt that my home life was such a chore, that i was just living for the benefit of those boys and my husband, they didn't lift a finger to help with anything and it always lead to fights and the feeling to me that my husband was inadequate
but i realized that i still felt that way after my own daughter was born. i remember being on im with a girlfriend of mine crying my eyes out one day when my daughter was about 3 months old that i can't get anything done and husband was not helping, like it wasn't even his kid too, and i resented it so much cause he said with his first wife he always took care of his boys.
do you think ll, that because we were brought up in a dysfunctional (for lack of a better word) home that we are perpetuating that feeling into our own marriages? i honestly don't know what your religious beliefs are, but mine are that god created man and woman for specific purposes which is not what is happening today. i do believe that man was to be the hard load outside "bring home the bacon" and the woman was to pretty much handle everything else. but that didn't leave the man out of family responsibilities as he was supposed to provide for the finanacial, and emotional and sprititual interests of his family (patriarch - think abraham)
i believe because of my upbringing that being a wife meant that i was being a "slave" and of course no one wants that feeling - and i let that spill over to my marriage especially when i ended up with someone with kids, and then of course with one of my own.
oh shoot, i don't know what i am trying to say exactly except that i know that i really didn't have a mom to show me what a mom was really supposed to be, and in actuality she didn't either because her mom died when my mom was 18 - and i think i might have short changed my marriage because of these resentments that were ingrained in me.
no woman should be a slave. - i heard that more than once from both my sister and my mother
help me ll, do you understand where i am going with this?
I look at the women in h's family (well not all of them but most) and all I see are subserviant slaves who think their men are just ignorant work horses sure they love them but doesn't seem like they think much of them...feed them...clean their house and let them watch their sports and you'll be taken care of financially? wtf kind of m is that? am I missing something? or am I just seeing it wrong?
in my family...sure the women are domestic..they cook and clean and care for children but a lot more is shared...financial responsibilty is shared, child care is shared, the house and up keep of it (though ok most still falls on the woman) is shared, they are friends and laugh and have fun together..not the men in one room and the women in the other?
maybe I just married into the wrong ethnicity? I don't want to treat my h like an ignorant dufus just worthy of paying the bills and being the big bad diciplinarian to the kids...I know h can be and when he pushes himself to do it is an awesome daddy and is happier with himself when he puts in that effort.
see h's family is all about show...look right, clean your house till it's almost sterile...home cook everything...keep up the apperance...send daughters to dance class and sons to play sports...a little boy playing with a doll?? eee gats? a little girl playing with a power ranger? better make sure it's a pink one. don't use your left hand...aaaarrrrggggg! what freakin time warp are you stuck in???
any way....h is and is not like his family...that is what is so difficult for me. at times he is that stale stuffy pretentous poop that I hate...but other times the lights are on and wow he can amaze me.
I guess I spent to much time before our wedding letting the future in-laws fill my head with how I was suppose to be..cooking in the kitchen all the time etc...now don't get me wrong I love to cook and take care of my house...but don't tell me I have to. and h doesn't he'd be happy with pizza every night of the week.
ok now I'm just ranting but I think you can get an idea of where I might be going?
i see definitely. i see that both of us were brought up with less then good examples of what family life is supposed to be, and unfortunately we married men with different viewpoints then us
so the question is ll, what do we do about it? knowing that we cannot control what our spouses do and knowing that we cannot change them, what is left? either we go out and find that perfect person (oh yeah, like that exists) and leave our unhappiness behind, or we change ourselves
i see definitely. i see that both of us were brought up with less then good examples of what family life is supposed to be, and unfortunately we married men with different viewpoints then us
so the question is ll, what do we do about it? knowing that we cannot control what our spouses do and knowing that we cannot change them, what is left? either we go out and find that perfect person (oh yeah, like that exists) and leave our unhappiness behind, or we change ourselves
what is the lesser of the two evils?
damn this is hard aint it?
kitti
well I suppose we can just do our best to be our best and let our h's be who and what they are..and hope that someday they realize some things just as we have and hope they don't beat themselves up too much when/if that happens.
in other words if I don't want to live up to some standard I hold in my mind of what h might think a w should be, then why should I have some standard in my mind as far as what h should be?
what troubles me most though is when h takes time for himself and doesn't always take time for the kids...I mean just becuase your tired doesn't mean you are exempt from your daddy duties...if the kids wanna play you play damn it! oh yeah I guess that's just the way I see it...so then back to if the kids want to play mommy will play and hope that the kids don't grow up and think daddy's just an old poop! or that daddy finnally does figure out that part of the reason son doesn't listen to him is becuase he doesn't listen to son!
Quote: in other words if I don't want to live up to some standard I hold in my mind of what h might think a w should be, then why should I have some standard in my mind as far as what h should be?
sorry, still gonna pick your brain here
what if we truly became the women that our husbands thought they wanted, would they in turn become the men we want? is that possible?
or would we go back to the old resentment cycle because they cannot change, or will not change?
because i didn't have a father ll, i know in my heart i don't want my daughter to not have a father, and i also know that i don't want her to have a step father. so knowing this as strongly as i do, is it worth it to me to become the kind of wife that he wants, and can i do it without resentment
i don't remember who it was on this board recently but they had said something about making oj every time, it was one of their husband's pet peeves, that the oj pitcher wasn't always filled. she always resented the fact that she had to make it, but then she realized it was an act of love to do it, and it changed her whole perspective (or something like that)
maybe i need to incorporate a few more things like that in my marriage, and then maybe, hey, this might work eh?
Quote: what if we truly became the women that our husbands thought they wanted, would they in turn become the men we want? is that possible?
or would we go back to the old resentment cycle because they cannot change, or will not change?
thing is for my kitti, when I was busy trying to be the w I thought h wanted it wasn't after all what HE wanted it was what his family projected. so for me to be the w I think he wants (h doesn't complain about anything I do or don't do cept for maybe complaining about him doing or not doing something) is a bit more difficult as it involves biting my tounge when he's just being him even if that has an indirect effect on me and the kids.
what pisses me off the most though is that I am the one who wakes up to dd crying at 5 am while h stays in bed...sure eventually he gets up and goes to work...but I am still here listening to tears and sibling fights and not having much more than a couple min to breath on my own before I'm found and hear mamma this or mamma that..I don't get a damn lunch break etc....
so h leaves the house and actually brings home the money but while he's at work he has time to go out and grab a bite to eat and take a break...he doesn't have to answer the phone if he doesn't want to he can do things on his time etc...and when he comes home he get's to relax and take a break???? what about me? where's my break or is that just the tough luck of being the one without the penis? can you believe that h sat and watched football all day on sunday...after "his" team's game was over, dinner had been ready and waiting for a 1/2 hr cause the game went into over time...he actually came up and said give me a few to unwind??? wtf were you doing sprawled out on the couch?? thought that was unwinding..ok I'll continue to entertain and cook and fold laundry and you go unwind...wtf??
Quote: ya know KAW it's just not right that you go and start a thread to keep me here and then dissapear yourself!
He! he! he!
Naw, I really haven't disappeared ... just with the resturcturing at work, I don't have much more time than to make a post or two a day for now ... so why waste them on my thread. Not much there to update anyway, but I'm doing OK.
Now as far as catching up on this thread, I see I'm goin have to print it out tonight and read it after CAW goes to sleep ... then check in with you in the mornin'
Not trying to butt in, but I think LL hit on a little red herring a few posts ago. Unfortunately, I think it’s a red herring that becomes a kinda self fulfilling thing.
Quote: thing is this...
I look at my parents m and don't want it...of course it ended so what's to want about it?
I look at h's parents m and though they are still together I don't want anything like their m either.
thing is I don't have any examples of the happy medium and I don't think h does either.
so how to know, where to go, what to do...how to find that happy medium and is h even willing or is this as good as it gets?
LL
FWIW, I don’t think you need a model. If a person (or couple) want to build their own model, then why not? One doesn’t have to have their parents’ M. Nor do they have to have their spouse’s parents’ M.
The unfortunate part is (as you’ve been exploring in the rest of the posts), that in order to build your own model, you need to cooperate, and dare I say it, negotiate.
Is that a possibility for you? As everyone says, you cannot change your spouse, but you can ask them to change themselves.
I know you’ve done this before, and the results were less than impressive. I’m in the same boat, and I can certainly tell you that at this point in time, there’s no possibility of negotiation for me.
But if you step back and take a look at things from time to time, you may find that things have changed (or could change). If your spouse is caught up in the “I can’t help it… I don’t have any other model to follow” attitude, then you’re kinda stuck.
LL... I think your H hasn't seriously thought about how restrictive your lifestyle is. But do you honestly believe that he can come and go as he pleases?
I know that I've given more lip service than actual thought about the limitations on my W's days. But at the same time, she has refused to cut me any slack either.
Not much there to update anyway, but I'm doing OK.