I can TOTALLY relate. I have felt for awhile that I "can't do anything" without proof of A. I've seen the light, however! If you have read my thread, you'll know what I mean. The behavior is abusive - emotional abandonment if you will. A person doesn't have to be proven to be cheating to be proven an unfit spouse. These behaviors are detrimental not only to the M but to the stability of the family and need to be called out, in my opinion!
I am remaining "friendly" for now - but not friends as such - esp. with this retreat coming up this weekend.
Thank you both for answering me--I too have "seen the light". Sunny, I have read your thread and it is so similar to mine that I just have started to impliment some of the advise you have gotten.
And I am now convinced that this doesn't matter--porn, or just plain emotional abuse like this--expecting to act any way you please when you have a family that you made commitments to--is wrong.
I exposed the porn to the C back in January and my H is either very careful to wipe it off his history, or for now is not using it. I expect he isn't using it, because honestly I check ALL the time and he isn't computer savy at all. Any tips on how to check past history??
I have exposed to friends of mine, and wouldn't bother to tell friends of his. I have *just* started to tell family. On his side of the family a sister-in-law I am close to knows.
Would you expose to his parents? His 70 something year old parents? I just think they couldn't handle it. He is their perfect son who never does anything wrong. They are in good health, but I haven't wanted to do this to them and now my H has spun it that I am vindictive and making up all kinds of things--I wish I had known earlier that getting intel and exposing right away is so important! There has been verbal abuse and physical abuse as well and I just don't think they would believe me at this point (I do have proof of the physical though).
So as of now I pretty much am OK with him getting a D, but he refuses to LEAVE!! I just want him out--he needs to realize the FULL consequences of his actions. I have DB'd my butt off, now I think it's time to do absolutely nothing for him and go dark (well, dark as possible with a S 14)
So where were all those creative get-them-to-leave ideas?
Give him NO PEACE and NO CONSIDERATION while he's there.
OR
Talk to a lawyer.. who owns the home? If its legal I would get a half dozen friends together and wait til he's left the home then pack ALL of his things and put them in a dry storage facility.
Change the locks, put a envelope for him on the door with the key in it.
That's probably not legal, but you can see my point about the forcefullness.
And yes exposing early helps because when things start to turn sour BOTH spouses will run an "exposure" on their mates. THe wayward one is often terribly inaccurate and scathingly critical.
This is damage control on their part.... They know you may talk so they want to PREPARE everyone for you so you have NO CREDIBIILITY by the time you get to them...
Expose early if you can ... Whomever gets to the circle first gets the most credit... You CAN undo the damage to your rep with evidence.
I would suggest you ask QuickSilver how to track his internet usage... I do NOT think he's not using the internet, he has likley just found a way to cover his tracks better. Porn is addictive and he isn't just going to outright quit.
I exposed the porn to the C back in January and my H is either very careful to wipe it off his history, or for now is not using it. I expect he isn't using it, because honestly I check ALL the time and he isn't computer savy at all. Any tips on how to check past history??
Spector Pro 2010 is the BEST to do what you need if YOU have ACCESS to HIS PC.
Install that sucker, set the settings, and wait for him to go to work. Hit the hotkey to bring it up, and BAAAAAAAM. Nailed him!!!
You can also get eBlaster pro with Spector for a package deal, and then "conveniently" leave the house and get email alerts right to your phone.
So it would be about 160$, but isn't that WORTH IT to present your exposure group with nice pretty screenshots and website histories?
YOU CAN EVEN SHOW THEM THE SCREENSHOTS OF HIM WIPING THE INTERNET HISTORY. Just adds to the flavor of "he's looking at porn, and trying desperately to cover it up".
Me - 32 Her -30 Married - 7 Years Together - 9 Years No Kids 05/21 - Bomb 6/8 - Exposed 7/9 - Re-Exposed 06/11 - She Filed
I used eBlaster, and it works like a CHARM. You can even have it e-mail you when it encounters certain keywords, either in the person's Google searches or on the webpages that they're viewing (ex.: "divorce", "husband", "wife", "lawyer", "attorney", plus the usual assortment of cybersex words).
I called a DB coach, told her my H has moved out and is dating someone else even though we are still legally married. She advised me to stay friends. She advised me to take advantage of as much family time as possible and make it positive.
I too, like so many here, have danced around for a year trying to be nice, be friendly, improve our interactions, and have received more and more emotional and verbal abuse. Trying to be friends worked for about ten days and the abuse came back. The advice I"ve gotten on this board is universally the opposite - go NC, do not positively reinforce in any way his negative treatment of me and my S. IT was very confusing. I still do not have my H back. However, he has been much more nice and civil toward me since I went dim (we have minimal contact because of s5). I got way more peace and serenity having space from his abusive behavior. And I don't worry as much about OW because I don't see him.
So that seems to be the best strategy - for ME - but I have no idea what will work, if anything, in my M. And, I could take it much farther. I could pack up his stuff and put it on the lawn, change the locks, fight for more custody in a D, file a D, tell him point blank that I do not want to be friends since he's what I consider cheating (he doesnt, since we're separated but in my heart I am still married to him and I took my vows seriously!~).
Of course I"m scared to do this because it makes no sense for someone who wants her M back. But that has been Allen's advice, as well as many others. If I had the courage to do this - who knows where I would be. I am scared to rock the boat, but it could be that is just what the doctor ordered! -Still trying to decide. I see Allen's points - they all make sense. Then I get cold feet...to be continued...
Cuccoon, my H is doing the same, moved out to have an affair because he didn't want to do it while living with me and took off his ring and said over and over he'd file and such but hasn't done anything of the sort yet. I tried the friendly route in the first few weeks but felt it was crushing to my soul, because any time I saw him I'd just have such hope that if I said or did the right thing he'd just say "what, am I crazy? I'm coming back!" and of course I'd just end up hearing him say yet again how he was so sorry but he felt he made the right decision by leaving.
I know the breaking contact with H is counterintuitive and frankly you don't know if it will work to help the marriage although in many cases it seems to have for others, but if the contact is hurting you continuously you have to weigh that against the friend route and take yourself into account first. I am not going into nearly as many sad or depressive episodes now that my H isn't around, that's for sure. Every day I struggle and want to call or email him but I don't. I just keep saying to myself "it won't bring him back. It just won't." So for now I'm following Allen's advice and others and just trying to get my own life on track. Oh and above, I have told my H I cannot be friends now due to his infidelity and that only if he stops his infidelity would I consider a relationship with him. Look at the protection letter by Penny Tupy--I think Allen should have a link somewhere for you.
M45 Bomb 6/09; EA 6/10; Divorced 1/11 Proud single mom of 7 little feline girls and one little feline boy "Fall down 53 times. Get up 54." -- Zen saying
Cucoon and everyone... if your spouse is married to you and having sex elsewhere they are not "dating".. its called "cheating".. even if you KNOW about it
I can so relate especially to Cuccoon. That could be me writing those sentiments.
HOLY TOLEDO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WHY ARE SOOOOO MANY OF US having the same problems!!!!!!!!!!!! Every reply here could be something I say.
My H moved out April 17 to pursue his A with OW. OW has sordid history - her 2nd A in 5 years both with a married neighbor (1st neighbor down the street) and now my spouse and she was married also. But that first one didn't "count" 'cause she was in a bad marriage and she was "lonely" and my H and her are soulmates. You know, they all have the same script!!!! How uncanny that they all say the same thing.
I allowed him to cake walk for close to 8 months - wouldn't give her up but was deciding what to do meanwhile I tried everything under the sun to "fix" it from Mort Fertel to Larry Bilotta. His started as an EA and I'm positive that if not before he left, it's a PA now.
Anyway, getting off your topic. I also agree it's a struggle to figure how to interact. I worry about my kids and almost everything you read emphasizes that it's in the kids best interest to get along, however, like you, I feel that being nice is basically endorsing his A and his choice for immorality. I'm responsible for my kids' moral upbringing and that OW is not a moral, ethical person and I don't want my kids around her ever and I let him know that. However, I know that legally I can't keep her from them unless she has a criminal record.
My H likes to point out that he does have his kids best interest at heart because rather than showing them that we're living a loveless M, he'll be showing them that you can find "true love". Never mind that this "true love" is a person who we all vacationed with, ate many meals with, socialized with, was my "friend", alledgedly "loves" my girls, shared many events with. NOT!!! What you're showing them is that when the going gets really tough, you run away and find someone else!!!!!! Oh, but I emotionally abandoned him 5 years ago and they didn't mean for it to happen, they never wanted to hurt anyone.
I deserve better, you deserve better, kids are resilient and as long as we model a "loving" relationship and are friends, they'll be fine (huh?) I have tried to be upbeat and polite, but I share as little as possible with him. He's aware of it too. It's very challenging when you have kids. I just don't get it.
People like my H and OW are very selfish. They are completely convinced that what they're doing is right because they were neglected by their respective spouses, everyone deserves to be happy and they still "love" their spouses and want to be friends. Divorce isn't any harder on kids than any other difficult situation unless I plant ideas in their heads. You know so man thinketh, he becometh.
In my case, the kids (according to H) will be fine with OW (her kids will be too) because H and her have remained friends and now that 4 months have passed since he moved out (she left last summer), they're "tired" of hiding each other from the kids. So now, he's going to invite her to do things together with all the kids 'cause after all we used to do lots of things together. We were all friends and he wants to make sure the kids still know that. After all, he's not going to be living with her (yet) and they're not going to be sleeping together (yet) when the kids are around. Ultimately the kids should easily accept her, after all they know her and love her. AND, I better be careful what I say about her 'cause if I'm negative about her, then the kids won't feel like they can be open and honest with me and share their experiences over at H's house. H has every intention of being completely open. So, now it has a very "threatening" feel to it, doesn't it? Give the kids permission to love the OW or else you're going to make life hard for them. huh?
I know I still have lots of resentment and bitterness to let go of. I DON'T GET IT!!!!!! What a sad state of affairs. I'm not looking forward to the day when the kids put two and two together. They may already suspect something.
I hope I haven't hijacked this thread. It's certainly a painful topic when us LBS still love our spouse (NOT the person that appears today, but the one that's suppressed).
Hang in there. You're not alone!!!!!
--------------------------- Me - 47, H - 47 M - 23.5 , T - 27 DD - 12, DD - 5 H moved out - April 17 OW - 46, divorce to be final sometime in August
--------------------------------- M 47, H 47 DD 5, DD 12 Married 23.5 years, T 27 years Separated 4/17/10 EA/PA - started probably about 3 years ago
