Thank you everyone for the advice. And I agree 100%, to take this very cautiously.
H agreed to see my FT, whom I think is very good. I seen him myself last night and we discussed next weeks apt with my H. FT agreed that it is very important we do not make my H feel like he is being attacked. And he also mentioned letting my H open up about the control issues he has with me. Then he said almost exactly what you said Allen, it's all about “cooperation" and "negotiation”.
My FT biggest concern is that it doesn’t appear my H is ready to give up the OW. And with that, he is not sure any therapy will help us. He says I have to decide what my boundary is concerning the OW, and he will help me relay that to my H in non controlling way. He said it’s important that my H feel like it’s his choice to end that relationship or not but at the same time letting him know that I will not be in a marriage if he decides to keep contact with her.
With everything that happened the last couple of days. I know that my H is trying to manipulate me. When I finally stood up for myself and told him I was done, I know it scared him. And he is trying to manipulate me back into waiting for him.
Together 16 years Married 12 years Me 36 H 34 D9 & S6 Separated 12/3/09 Confirmed A 1/25/10 Exposed A 1/26/10 H hired L, but not filed yet 1/27/10
Me: Are you done, do you want the divorce? H: No, I change my mind every day. I don't know what I want Me: For 6 months you have told me everything that I've done wrong. Some of it I agree with and others I do not. H: I just don't see how it will ever work Me: I'm sorry you feel that way. I can not give you any guarantee that it will work between us, but it's worth trying H: I did try, for 4 years Me: I appreciate that you tried. However, I didn't know that you were unhappy and I was never given the chance to meet you half way
mb28, I'm amazed to see how similar your H is to my W. My W says repeatedly, "I tried for 11 years!" and doesn't want to give our relationship another chance. It's interesting to see know that a husband can be that way too. Seems like people in affair all sort of think the same way and say the same things.
Hang in there.
My wife is asking for a divorce and I don't completely understand why.
ken5140 I was also shocked at how similar on the WAS's scripts are. It's amazing how they all say the same things over and over again. And everything is always our fault.
You hang in there too, and I'll try to catch up on your sitch as soon as I can.
Together 16 years Married 12 years Me 36 H 34 D9 & S6 Separated 12/3/09 Confirmed A 1/25/10 Exposed A 1/26/10 H hired L, but not filed yet 1/27/10
He has to somehow validate that his "friendship" with OW is worth destroying his marriage.
When pressed to end his affair or end his marriage, he throws the "control flag" up... pathetic a defence as it may be, its his default response.
That is the question(s) your FT needs to impress on him :
Is preserving a friendship worth destroying a marriage, a home, and an entire family? If it is just a friendship, your marriage should take precedence over that shouldn't it? You must understand sir that the more you try to keep control over this friendship to the detriment of your family the more convinced everyone becomes that you are indeed committing infidelity. I am also concerned about damage you may be doing to this woman's household as well. Have you spoken with her husband at all to determine how comfortable he is with you two being so close?
Your marriage should come before "buddies" night out... Shouldn't it?
I am still worried about this "everyone pretend he's not cheating so he will communicate" strategy.
His reputation seems terribly important to him. I still say blow it wide open so he has to own his cheating.
I realize you have done a fair bit of exposure, even to family members you hope would continue on your behalf. I am a bit out of the loop on how many people believe he's cheating and denounce his behaviour vs how many are just burying their heads in the sand or outright supporting him.
He seems earnestly determined to preserve his reputation.
Allen, I have told all family and friends and other than his dad (who thinks he can do no wrong) everyone things he is having an A. However, everyone has buried their heads in the sand and that is the most frustrating part for me.
He does care a great deal about his reputation, even though he says he doesn't. Then in the next breath he says we'll have to get all new friends because everyone has judged him. I know it's his guilt that keeps him away from all his friends.
I feel better that I have finally done what you adviced and put my foot down about their relationship. I've told him that there is no marraige as long as she is in the picture.
Together 16 years Married 12 years Me 36 H 34 D9 & S6 Separated 12/3/09 Confirmed A 1/25/10 Exposed A 1/26/10 H hired L, but not filed yet 1/27/10
H agreed to see my FT, whom I think is very good. I seen him myself last night and we discussed next weeks apt with my H. FT agreed that it is very important we do not make my H feel like he is being attacked. And he also mentioned letting my H open up about the control issues he has with me. Then he said almost exactly what you said Allen, it's all about “cooperation" and "negotiation”.
The thing is, any partnership, family, frienship, work relationship, involves a degree of submission to common understanding, some sacrifice has to be made.
In the workplace, you agree with your employer to maintain to the best of your ability a regular schedule and pace of work. In exchange, they offer you a place to work, a salary, and a reference for when you choose to move elsewhere for employment. Both are taking on some risks, some sacrifices, some trust is extended as well. So long as no one pushes these to extremes, the arrnagement fucntions well. The problem is when an employer presses the employee to keep a rigid schedule, and brings unreasonable consequences down when the schedule or whatever isn't followed. This is EXCESSIVE control being executed.
Marriage isn't much different. You both make sacrifices, offer a degree of trust, exchange support and labour, etc. But when either of the partners executes excessive control over their situation, or executes excessive consequence when an understanding isn't met, problems result yet again.
Your H seems to think you get excessive in the arrangement, but that HE does NOT. I would call six months of heartbreak and lies excessive. The problem here mb28 is that he expects you to fully acknowledge the damage you may have done, but he insists on protecting a reputation to the point of spewing a web of lies to everyone. Your husband is showing as much abuse of the situation as he characterizes you as executing. But your H won't own any of the damage he's done. He wants YOU to IGNORE it. He's going to try to get a free pass back into the home and if you bring up the six month period here he will just start flag waving again.
Your husband has a serious emotional issue : He wont' own his behaviour and rectify it; he insists on sweeping his excesses under the rug.
THIS is as abuse of control too. THAT needs adressed, and I didn't even mention infidelity. Him hiding away for months and playing childish games of cat and mouse with you to the detriment of these children having to suffer this nonsense for months on end is deplorable. He won't OWN it. He will have to own it sooner or later or you will never respect him or yourself, even if you get a marriage back.. you will grow to resent it.
You will not be able to live with this man if he won't grow up enough to be honest about the harms he's done to people.
I hope this isnt' a historical problem of his and its just been teh last six months, but I suspect this is a maturity challenge he's had for a long time.
With everything that happened the last couple of days. I know that my H is trying to manipulate me. When I finally stood up for myself and told him I was done, I know it scared him. And he is trying to manipulate me back into waiting for him.
He's been controlling his marriage into a ditch for six months now... longer I believe... I hope he is wiling to accept he has done a lot of damage here.
I suspect he's worried he is going to have to walk about the rest of his life in shame if he is honest about his infidelity, which is impeeding his return.
He does need to understand he's safe to be honest. I just don't know if everyone pretending he's NOT cheating is the best route to take here... It just seems to strengthen his resolve to avoid ownership of the damage he's done.
He's controlling the marriage right now mb28, he's strangling it to death and has been for months, YOU have been struggling to keep it alive... While he stands back hiding with his hands over his ears accusing you of controlling the situation to excess.
Allen, have you ever thought of a career in therapy? What you said above about him not owning his mistakes, is exactly what my therapist said to me last night. He is very concerned that my H is not willing to admit where he has gone wrong, etc.
You are right this has NOT been only the last six months, he has always had this maturity trait.
Together 16 years Married 12 years Me 36 H 34 D9 & S6 Separated 12/3/09 Confirmed A 1/25/10 Exposed A 1/26/10 H hired L, but not filed yet 1/27/10
You apply a lot of pressure to people to do things your way He hides from the consequences of any damage he does
Not a good mix is it?
I may be off on the first point, I really am just guessing based on his complaining about you controlling.. this usually means people applying a lot of pressure to make something happen... If what you are trying to DO is SAVE a marriage, its a GOOD thing in my opinion.
Owning your behaviour is a HUGE one in Phil McGraw's therapy approach which I read quite a bit of.
To McGraw you have two things to do to become an adult
a. Own your past b. Keep it OUT of your future
By ownership we mean here to fully acknowledge the harm done to people, do the work to rebuild trust, and repair damage where you can.
By keeping out OUT we mean setup whatever boundaries you need to make healthier choices for yourself and others.
For example : If you have a habit of abusing finances, pay back anyone you steal or borrow money from, turn your finances over to your spouse to budget and manage. Full transparency.
Your husband seems to want to HIDE from damage he's done rather than owning it. This is a serious problem and a serious obstacle to his therapy.
How can you go to therapy to repair a marriage if your instincts are to HIDE from your WRONGDOINGS? The LAST place you want to go is a FT office.
And of course, he's afraid of being attacked and made out to be the bad guy... Right on cue.
He has trouble managing his emotions it sounds like. If you bring up even a small problem, he will turn it into a thunderstorm and run away to hide. Then he comes back later and doen'st want to talk about it?
Classic passive aggressive.
He will have to learn to take HOLD of his choices, ugly or hurtful they may be, FACE them, be HONEST to himself AND you that he DID DO THEM... and then do the work to rebuild the betrayals and the damage into something respectable again.
Mb28 does your husband do any repair work at all? I am not sure what kind fo work he does, but it may benefit him to learn how to repair things... just to get a TASTE of it.
Many people nowadays have a disposable mindset, thanks to the market selling miles and miles of things that are best tossed away when broken.
Is your vaccum broken? Buy another Is your microwave busted? Buy another Is there a tear in your pants? Buy another pair Job not satisfying you anymore? Leave and get a new one Marriage isn't working anymore? Get rid of it
I majored in engineering, I build things by trade.
I suspect your husband either doens't think or work this way regularly, OR he can only think that way regarding his line of work.
Life is becoming so disposable that marriages just fall into the same basket of disposable part of our life.
Your husband needs to be RE-educated about REPAIRING problems rather than disposing them.
He may associate part of his own self-worth with the damage so its easier to get RID of it and the memory and pick up something NEW instead with a clean slate.
This is NOT a healthy way to think through your life and its challenges...
Your husband needs some education in rebuilding what's broken. I suspect he's adopted the same disposable mindset that many these days fall prey too.. its partly just the modern market... Its very often easier to dispose of something and buy new than have it fixed... its ubiquitously taken over marital thinking as well.
