Your internal dialogue reminds me of a dialogue and some conclusions I have recently come to in my situation. Every situation is different so my feedback may or may not apply to your situation, but I thought sharing my thoughts would give you something to consider.
In my situation, my DB coach Jody suggested going "dim", rather than going "dark". She advised to let H initiate, and to respond in a similar manner (i.e. length), always keeping my response light. XH and I don't have children, so this has kept a thin tether between us, even to this day ---- 20 months post-bomb.
Since my D 5 months ago I have tried to figure out what type of interaction to have with XH as I move forward. A turning point came for me recently when I read a chapter about "caretakers" in a book titled The Neuroscience of Psychotherapy: Healing the Social Brain by Louis Cozolino. The "patient" the author described fit my XH to a T!!!!!!!!! Here is an excerpt that summarizes the gist: "....it became clear to me that (the patient) had spent the first half of his 39 years taking care of his immature and self-centered parents. All of his subsequent relationships appeared to fall into a similar pattern. Although he described his romantic relationships in positive terms, he also reported feeling deprived of attention and nurturance. He seemed to be attempting to please others in order to gain the love and attention he had always longed for from his parents. His efforts would invariably end in sadness, resentment, and withdrawal. Although he was exhausted from trying so hard and failing so completely, (the patient) still maintained the hope that his efforts would someday pay off.".
This chapter (and a conversation with a close friend who is also a "caretaker" type) helped me to realize that XH takes care of people in the hope that others will take care of him. That is his way of asking to be nurtured --- it would have been much easier if he had just told me he wanted to feel nurtured, but I don't think that he is consciously aware of this need. This epiphany made me decide to be a consistent source of nurturing for XH, no matter what. Growing up with an alcoholic mother and a father who was always working (I believe to escape the chaos at home) he wasn't nurtured so I know that that is what he longs for, even if he doesn't realize it.
Going dim is a consideration....at least to a degree...maybe not volunteering anything unless asked...have to give that some thought...
The book sounds interesting.... That "caretaker" personality probably fits me better then him. I didn't have any trauma in my childhood but I'm the nurturing type, always trying to please and be of service...that's my way of showing love and caring.
WH on the other hand very likely has issues going back to his childhood. Father left when his mom was pregnant with him and mom was depressed and bitter all her life and never forgave his dad for leaving. I guess that's where my H's need for constant affirmation of love and need for reassurance comes from.
M53 H54 D17 M33Y T38Y Bomb OW 09/09 OUT 10/09 BACK 11/09 OUT 01/10 WANTS TO R 04/10 BACK with OW 05/10 Wants to Reconcile 05/11 I said NO
What percent of the time does/did your H recognize your efforts to nurture him? I did nurturing, loving things for my XH when we were together but I think they were difficult for him to accept. Early in my relationship with XH I would say "I love you" and H would respond "I don't like you to say that you love me. It's hard for me to believe that you do." This began when we were still blissfully in love, walking on clouds.
My point is, do you think your H recognizes and is able to accept your nurturing? Please understand, I'm not challenging your nurturing ability......just putting a question out there to think about. I don't know whether this is an issue in your sitch or not. In my case, I now know that XH didn't feel nurtured and that was what he really wanted. I wish that I'd found the book "The 5 Love Languages" (Gary Chapman) early in my relationship. I would have communicated in a way that H could understand, instead of using MY love languages, which weren't what he was really looking for.
My H was generally happy with my nurturing for 36 years I guess LOL.
But there is a pattern here. 20 years ago when he had his first affair, we were going through tough business times and it was very stressful for about 6 months while trying to keep the business afloat. Lots of my energy and attention went into that...he felt "unloved" and started an affair with a girl that worked for us. I was her boss.
This time it was a little different...his MLC started about 4 years ago when he turned 50. The stresses we had in the family at the time? Nothing that unusual...only in the past 2 years life was more stressful. D16 going through her "stupid year" that diverted lots of my attention from him to her.
I also had a chronic illness that they couldn't diagnose until late last year and after 10 months on medication is now finally resolved...It did effect me and my energy and my ability to enjoy life. I was also going through menopause at the same time and our business was not doing that well in 2009.
So yes, there were lots of things happening at the same time and maybe he didn't get all the attention he was used too and again "didn't feel loved". With him already questioning life and his own mortality, he started to do all the typical MLC things...started to be obsessed with his looks, youthful clothes, vitamins, excessive exercise, wrinkle creams...and he started the affair.
Seems like every time we have a stressful period in our lives he feels "unloved" and goes and finds another woman. The first affair was pretty intense as well, he even moved out for couple of months...she was his soul mate and it lasted a year. He came back and we worked it out, healed it and he settled and everything was great until now.
I only see this in the hindsight, It wasn't that obvious while we were going through it.
I also wish I found the book "5 Love Languages" long time ago. It really opened my eyes to how different people are in expressing love and what is imprtant to you may nor be important to them. You think that you are showing love, but they don't see it, because their love language is different and they respond to a different "show of love". Very, very interesting....
Thank you GAG (((Hugs)))
M53 H54 D17 M33Y T38Y Bomb OW 09/09 OUT 10/09 BACK 11/09 OUT 01/10 WANTS TO R 04/10 BACK with OW 05/10 Wants to Reconcile 05/11 I said NO
Early in my relationship with XH I would say "I love you" and H would respond "I don't like you to say that you love me. It's hard for me to believe that you do."
This sounds like your XH had some self esteem issues...he didn't believe that anyone could love him?
If my H recognized my nurturing? I think he must have, we were really happy and in tune as far as I know accept for these 2 affairs. Obviously there was something he was missing around the time of the affairs, and the only thing I can think of is my attention to the extend that he needed it to feel loved.
I don't know...I'm just guessing here.
Last edited by Mila; 05/18/1003:44 AM.
M53 H54 D17 M33Y T38Y Bomb OW 09/09 OUT 10/09 BACK 11/09 OUT 01/10 WANTS TO R 04/10 BACK with OW 05/10 Wants to Reconcile 05/11 I said NO
That's why I'm rethinking the "being dark" idea. He is showing me caring and he wants remain in my life (in his own way right now) I'm thinking that I will get further by being there for him emotionally...go back to being his friend. I'm worried that if I cut him off he will turn more towards the OW.
Your decision, but if I read you right, you've been through this ONCE before in your life? And this is the SECOND time?
You're a much stronger woman in that area than me, Mila, to be honest. One time is enough...it is a character weakness or flaw for the same mistake to repeat.
Love/nurturing by itself will NOT fix everything, a person must suffer consequences for their actions, especially when they are making repetitive mistakes, OR going into multiple affairs, regardless of the reason behind doing so.
On the other hand, methinks you are trying to blame yourself for your husband's affairs, when it was HIS fault, hands down.
Each person in a marriage is responsible for their part in the breakdown of said marriage, but the action that is taken to fix the problem doesn't include an affair.
Nor is an affair justifiable.
It's one thing to have a need that goes unmet, but the WAY a person goes about meeting that need, is where things can go horribly wrong, if that person is selfish/immature.
When you are MARRIED you are responsible for asking your SPOUSE to meet that need, NOT go out and have an affair!!
There was and is something seriously wrong within your husband for him to do that, and it looks to me like you're making excuses for him, blaming YOURSELF for HIS misbehavior.
There is NO excuse for adultery, NONE, whatsoever.
He has to learn to deal with his problems WITHOUT being selfish and hurting his wife. That is an immature trait within him that you cannot fix or nurture away. He has to fix it within himself, or you're in for MORE misery as time goes on...every time he feels "unloved", there will be yet another woman for him to run to, while you stand by once again....I have alot of trouble with the reasoning on this one.
He needs to GROW up, and have some respect for you, his WIFE.
On the other hand, STDs are a very real threat, OW could become pregnant and complicate things, besides the fact that exclusivity is broken, never regained, trust is broken all to heck, and you're saying you stood by him through the first one...apparently, he never learned anything from that first affair, or it seems to me that he wouldn't have repeated that same mistake during his MLC. The issue he had never went away, resurfacing once again.
It was NEVER dealt with in the FIRST affair.
Not EVERY person who goes through a MLC has an affair, either, there are those select few who don't go that route...like I once said, MLC or not, they ARE aware of what they're doing, and are selfish enough to do it anyway, regardless of who gets hurt, as long as it's NOT them.
Yup, you just got hit with a 2x4!
I still stand on the advice to stay dark, but that is up to you; I won't beat you to death and try to make you take the advice, but the one question you have to ask yourself is this:
How much respect do you have for yourself, considering this is the SECOND time you've had to deal?
I have a great deal of respect for you, Mila, always have, and like I said, you're a much stronger woman than me, but there is also something YOU have to learn out of going through this twice.
It's part of seeing your own mistakes within yourself doing the mirror work needed to see within you, what needs to be fixed.
The fact is, you're NOT his mother, and you never were. AND, you're NOT responsible for his wrongdoings, HE IS.
Everything happens for a reason, and this time, your eyes need to really open to the reality of your husband; seeing him for what he really is, and what you might be doing, if you decide to break your darkness, to "enable" him to continue this pattern of bad behavior/disrespect toward you.
It's something to think about.
Have a good one.
Remember, as each person is different, every MLC/Transition is different..what works for one may not work for another. Most of the time it is trial and error for ALL involved.
Can't say I've ever really heard it working out the way you are proposing.
Then again it's not working out so well the other way either (i.e. many of us on these boards)!!
So who knows, maybe that's right for your sitch.
Anyway, it doesn't hurt to try for a little while, if it feels right for you, so be it. If not, change and do the 180 thing and go dark/dim, or whatever else. No matter, time must pass, so you can try whatever works best for you.
