Friend confirmed the two were talking in a non group setting today.
Today W told me for the first time in nearly 4 weeks (verbally) that she is still set on ending this marriage. Could be in part due to pursuit on my end with a facebook post, I thought it was harmless. She copied and pasted the post into email and sent it to herself.
Little bit later I walk in the room W ask for a picture, I told her I had it on my night stand. I asked W if she wanted the photo she said yes. I handed it over and said "I took that one" she said I know u took it...I replied, no I mean I snapped that picture. She turned and I said " I can't have the picture?" She said "no, and soon every memory will be wiped away, cause I am leaving" I said " I just want for you to be happy" then she said "soon as my fathers situation calms done and he can finish the house I am gone" and I replied "W name, I just want for you to be happy" then she said "I am going to talk to my father about getting/calling that lawyer" I said nothing in return then a few min later she said "and I don't know what were going to do about her" and pointed to the dog, I said nothing and a few min later left the room.
M: 27, W: 25 Together since: 01/31/00 M: 10/4/09 (8 Months) ILBNILWY: 01/24/10 EA confirmed: 02/10/10 (Busted). Road to Reconcile began: 07/10/10 Retrouvaille: 09/10/10
I said " I can't have the picture?" She said "no, and soon every memory will be wiped away, cause I am leaving" I said " I just want for you to be happy" then she said "soon as my fathers situation calms done and he can finish the house I am gone" and I replied "W name, I just want for you to be happy" . . .
OIN when you say crap like that to her you JUSTIFY her LEAVING... It is making your case WORSE not better... why do you resort to giving her nonsense and ammunition?
I would have just told her
Running away isn't going to make either of us feel better in the long term... no one enjoys a failed marriage on their conscience...
And THEN I would turn and walk away...
More to the point, why are you getting INTO these conversations in the first place, DR makes it crystal clear you should AVOID relationship talks... and your SPOUSE WILL PUSH them on you... AVOID them.. you seem to walk right up after them like ice cream...
it is NOT going to improve your situation to discuss your relationship with a wayward spouse.. you just give HER ammunition to LEAVE
Stop pursuing her and stop the marriage talk... if you DO get sucked into saying SOMETHING.. say something CONSTRUCTIVE to cause her to DOUBT divorce... telling her "I just want you to be happy" is NOT helping your case... it IMPLIES
Divorce me, you will be much happier and you have no reason to feel any guilt...
that is what she hears when you say "I just want you to be happy"
You are just putting a bullet to your big toe and firing the trigger...
I NEVER initiated this conversation with her. She spontaneously said this. And I replied as I was advised to by my DB coach. Sorry not sure if I was being clear or if you were keeping up with my other thread
M: 27, W: 25 Together since: 01/31/00 M: 10/4/09 (8 Months) ILBNILWY: 01/24/10 EA confirmed: 02/10/10 (Busted). Road to Reconcile began: 07/10/10 Retrouvaille: 09/10/10
I was told by db coach that if W says "I' leaving" don't engage in R talk, don't reason with her or try to convince her it is bad because all she would want to do is prove me wrong. She'll make it a point to show me she can make it with out me...
I was told if I simply say "I want you to be happy" it will make her think that I have her best interest in mind and she would think "he is not being selfish and thinking about himself, he want me to bed happy" and I ultimately she wants to be with a person that makes her happy
M: 27, W: 25 Together since: 01/31/00 M: 10/4/09 (8 Months) ILBNILWY: 01/24/10 EA confirmed: 02/10/10 (Busted). Road to Reconcile began: 07/10/10 Retrouvaille: 09/10/10
OK, well, I don't agree with our db coach, I think its just pushing her away by justifying her giving up on a marriage she has done damage to as well... you are just enabling her escapism.. in my opinion at least... You ultimately have to decide if you think that's helping you or convincing her its ok to walk out on you and your marriage.. I am inclined from your posts to think its the latter...
I thought the method I was applying was generating positive results. It seems it was all false assumptions...db goals were met so I thought we were heading on the right path. It would seem everytime I fight for the marriage she pulls away and enforces that she wants out and starts to throw everything out on the table (verbally).
M: 27, W: 25 Together since: 01/31/00 M: 10/4/09 (8 Months) ILBNILWY: 01/24/10 EA confirmed: 02/10/10 (Busted). Road to Reconcile began: 07/10/10 Retrouvaille: 09/10/10
You need to weigh the db' coaches advice with that you will find in textbooks and from this forum... it isn't all going to be out of confict...
This is not an exact science unfortunately... I used a db coach myself and to this day I wish I had followed more of the advice on this forum much earlier... It in my opinion is better.. The db coach is limited to MWD's approach and with infidelity in particular I don't think its the best route... MWD is brilliant, but she doesn't specialize in infidelity.
With your case MWD may have more impact. But I don't agree with the "I just want you to be happy" mantra... Given her mental state I honestly don't think she's interpreting that in a way that is in your favour... You need to think really hard about how miserable and hopeless she's feeling and weigh what she will hear when you say stuff like that.
The db coach wants you to look favourable, and yes it may look warmer than a criticism but in my opinion it also sounds hopeless, supplicating, and ultimately sounds like surrender to divorce... It does NOT sound like you are pressing her with the understanding of what marriage is... and what it isnt.. Your wife is not well-educated re what a marriage is, you are learning this now... despite the ten years you have together, you two are newlyweds to what a real marriage is :
a. Your wife believes marriage is a disposable arrangement that you escape from when things get bad and you feel hopeless.
b. To my mind its a lifelong commitment that you escape TO when things get bad and you feel hopeless.
"I just want you to be happy" does not impart the second point in there at all... and I honeslty think its key point your wife needs to comprehend... not HEAR.. but comprehend.. it can take YEARS to understand those two points above... half of them never get it and just escape into yet another marriage later that has an even lower success rate - second marriages success rates are much lower than the first... why do you think that is...?
Its because they never figured it out the first time and they waste their lives chasing rainbows instead of building a home they can love and respect.
DBing will implicitly impart this point to its practitioners, but your wife is NOT trying.. she's still in escape mode. The best course in my opinion for you is to make the home as inviting as you can while doing what you can to impart the meaning of marriage by example... You can't lecture this into her, she needs to SEE it happen.
Right now you need to wear a suit of armor against her negative commentary. I realize she starts the relationship talks, but YOU need to finish them with a solid positive educated comment... You keep letting her lead them into a ditch and you both end up miserable... this just validates her position, rather than brings out the doubt more... you want her to DOUBT her leaving... You want her to second guess her escapism logic.
"I just want you to be happy" will NOT in my opinion bring that doubt to bear at all.
something like
Running away isn't going to make either of us feel better in the long term... no one enjoys a failed marriage on their conscience...
Put with warm with seriousness is going to hit home a lot more to my mind.
Its your choice what route you want to try, but here's your matra for both :
something like
a. I just want you to be happy
b. Running away isn't going to make either of us feel better in the long term... no one enjoys a failed marriage on their conscience...
Again you can tweak b, it can be worded more concisely with more time to think on it.
I have read approach a tried here with that exact line ... And it didn't make an impact ... Wayward spouses think happiness is something you escape to when things are bad, rather than something you build through a dedication to painful (in some cases) emotional growth... telling her to find happiness rather than to earn it at home is tantamount to asking her to run away.
To me, "I just want you to be happy" sounds like validation of escape, rather than a gentle reproach to how useless escape really is...
You need to weigh the db' coaches advice with that you will find in textbooks and from this forum... it isn't all going to be out of confict...
This is not an exact science unfortunately... I used a db coach myself and to this day I wish I had followed more of the advice on this forum much earlier... It in my opinion is better.. The db coach is limited to MWD's approach and with infidelity in particular I don't think its the best route... MWD is brilliant, but she doesn't specialize in infidelity.
With your case MWD may have more impact. But I don't agree with the "I just want you to be happy" mantra... Given her mental state I honestly don't think she's interpreting that in a way that is in your favour... You need to think really hard about how miserable and hopeless she's feeling and weigh what she will hear when you say stuff like that.
The db coach wants you to look favourable, and yes it may look warmer than a criticism but in my opinion it also sounds hopeless, supplicating, and ultimately sounds like surrender to divorce... It does NOT sound like you are pressing her with the understanding of what marriage is... and what it isnt.. Your wife is not well-educated re what a marriage is, you are learning this now... despite the ten years you have together, you two are newlyweds to what a real marriage is :
a. Your wife believes marriage is a disposable arrangement that you escape from when things get bad and you feel hopeless.
b. To my mind its a lifelong commitment that you escape TO when things get bad and you feel hopeless.
"I just want you to be happy" does not impart the second point in there at all... and I honeslty think its key point your wife needs to comprehend... not HEAR.. but comprehend.. it can take YEARS to understand those two points above... half of them never get it and just escape into yet another marriage later that has an even lower success rate - second marriages success rates are much lower than the first... why do you think that is...?
Its because they never figured it out the first time and they waste their lives chasing rainbows instead of building a home they can love and respect.
DBing will implicitly impart this point to its practitioners, but your wife is NOT trying.. she's still in escape mode. The best course in my opinion for you is to make the home as inviting as you can while doing what you can to impart the meaning of marriage by example... You can't lecture this into her, she needs to SEE it happen.
Right now you need to wear a suit of armor against her negative commentary. I realize she starts the relationship talks, but YOU need to finish them with a solid positive educated comment... You keep letting her lead them into a ditch and you both end up miserable... this just validates her position, rather than brings out the doubt more... you want her to DOUBT her leaving... You want her to second guess her escapism logic.
"I just want you to be happy" will NOT in my opinion bring that doubt to bear at all.
something like
Running away isn't going to make either of us feel better in the long term... no one enjoys a failed marriage on their conscience...
Put with warm with seriousness is going to hit home a lot more to my mind.
Its your choice what route you want to try, but here's your matra for both :
something like
a. I just want you to be happy
b. Running away isn't going to make either of us feel better in the long term... no one enjoys a failed marriage on their conscience...
Again you can tweak b, it can be worded more concisely with more time to think on it.
I have read approach a tried here with that exact line ... And it didn't make an impact ... Wayward spouses think happiness is something you escape to when things are bad, rather than something you build through a dedication to painful (in some cases) emotional growth... telling her to find happiness rather than to earn it at home is tantamount to asking her to run away.
To me, "I just want you to be happy" sounds like validation of escape, rather than a gentle reproach to how useless escape really is...
