Oh, and another FYI for those of you who may not know, or remember... what I do for work plays a huge part in how I feel about things. I am a wedding photographer. How many of you get reminded of what marriage should be about, what love (albeit young love) and commitment sounds like on a weekly basis? It taints, or should I say, overly romanticizes my outlook on marriage constantly. I love weddings, love love and I guess get hung up on why my marriage doesn't look like it "should". I know there's a huge difference 13 years in but...
Ok... mis-read Puppy but the point still was gotten. I need to stop worrying about the consequences or reactions to said boundaries and learn what they need to be. Time indeed
I am far from a clear, peaceful place in my head, thus all the proposed soul searching. I need to really get back to understanding what it is I want and need out of things, then I can begin to address my boundary issues. As it stands, I am so volatile these days, I don't trust myself to calmly, rationally think or DO anything. Patience young grasshopper
Sorry... bad GH... PM? I think we went over this earlier in the thread but...
On a slightly positive note (I guess) I did manage to just go to sleep last night while W was out. Usually I stay up and pace, and usually we get into some kind of thing when she gets home. Ok, so we still did the "thing" part after she woke me up (noticed the rings were off and called her on it) but the important part for me was that I was able to let go enough to just go to bed and not stress about something I could not control. Probably shocked her that she texted me a few times and I didn't answer... almost as shocking as the fact that I didn't text her at all myself. One step. Many more to go (and a side trip into the gray).
Ah... yes... yes I did. I am fairly certain of it. I'd have to go back to the 'ole library but reading the description, I am 99% sure I did read it. Differentiation. Seem to recall that not only did I read it, I preached it at one time My how time flies... and so do memories. I will re-read it if I can since I surely need brushing up.
Hey ya'll. Not much progress in the past week, hence not much posting. I have worked on boundaries but one thing has become perfectly clear as I've defined, examined and expressed those boundaries (no dishonesty, no nights out with friends I don't know, wearing wedding rings); my W has NO intention of stopping whatever is going on. No amount of rational, irrational or any other talk/action is going to change her behavior. She is 100% convinced that she's "entitled" to this behavior because of living for years as a stay-at-home-mom with little outside life other than the occasional outing with other moms. She's said as much on several occasions... but that was before she just started shutting down on me. Now trying to talk to her about anything close to R is met with total silence.
The thing that brought me to the MLC forum in the first place is that she is becoming more isolated from the family. Of course this may be largely in reaction to my increasingly erratic behavior (yes, I suck right now at DBing). When I am not operating from a purely negative emotional place (which is still fairly often) I've tried to talk to her from a non-accusing, non-confrontational place. I have refrained from talking about her behavior and just focused on my feelings, etc. In the end, she's become a wall to talk to. She says she's answered all my questions, and addressed all my concerns 1000 times over and no matter what she says, no matter how much she "proves" there is nothing for me to worry about, I will ALWAYS act this way and she's sick of it. The saddest part is that I'm almost convinced she's right. So let's play total head-up-our-arse devil's advocate here. Let's say she's right, and I am an a-hole. Let's say she's also being somewhat honest, at least on the big points of there not being an affair (remember, head-up-the-arse mode here, I know it's a stretch), etc. So what. She's also right (pull head out now... real truth here) that I can't deal with whatever is going on, affair or not. I can't deal with the dishonesty. I can't deal with her new found disliking of wearing her wedding rings. Hell, I've even gone retroactive and can't deal with the fact that she's NEVER been one to use the phrases "we, us, our", etc. She's prefers the singular way to refer to everything in life.
So here I am, listing to OT, Jack, Puppy and others tell me that I need to define and then adopt boundaries. Well, I know what they are but it's clear that my W has no intention of respecting them. So now what? Pull back? That's what she wants. I get the impression that the participation in the R that she does is 100% to maintain the status quo, not from any place of love or concern.
Of course all I am doing is just flailing trying to preserve that same status quo, or maybe better it, but in the end, I see that we're now on opposite sides of a fence. She's sick of the confines of our marriage but thinks there's room to roam within it. I am not comfortable with roaming, especially with people I don't know.
So here we sit. An impasse. I am struggling mightily with where to go from here. I do want to save this marriage but I am seeing such apathy in my W it's scary. Maybe I am to blame, I don't know anymore. All I know is that I am consumed with anger, fear, dread, hopelessness and just about every other emotion that can cause your stomach to be in constant knots.
Please, even if you think I need a 2x4, go a bit easy. I am so looking for support now. I don't really have anyone here to talk to, or lean on so you all are it. I know I am being sucky at DB. Correct that, advise me on that, but I really need to move past trying to affect my W's behavior or influence whatever her sitch is. Talk of boundaries is fine but it's clear that I need work on my side of the fence, especially since it may be time to start DOING something to respect those boundaries myself. So please, help me be more me now. For my kid's sake and mine.
I want to save my marriage but I want to save me first.
Hey ya'll. Not much progress in the past week, hence not much posting. I have worked on boundaries but one thing has become perfectly clear as I've defined, examined and expressed those boundaries (no dishonesty, no nights out with friends I don't know, wearing wedding rings); my W has NO intention of stopping whatever is going on.
Boundaries come with a plan of action otherwise they are just empty words. It doesn't really sound like you have a clear cut plan.
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No amount of rational, irrational or any other talk/action is going to change her behavior. She is 100% convinced that she's "entitled" to this behavior
They all act this way.
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Now trying to talk to her about anything close to R is met with total silence.
Time for a whole lot less talking and more doing.
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The thing that brought me to the MLC forum in the first place is that she is becoming more isolated from the family. Of course this may be largely in reaction to my increasingly erratic behavior (yes, I suck right now at DBing). When I am not operating from a purely negative emotional place (which is still fairly often) I've tried to talk to her from a non-accusing, non-confrontational place. I have refrained from talking about her behavior and just focused on my feelings, etc. In the end, she's become a wall to talk to. She says she's answered all my questions, and addressed all my concerns 1000 times over and no matter what she says, no matter how much she "proves" there is nothing for me to worry about, I will ALWAYS act this way and she's sick of it.
Again talky no worky.
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The saddest part is that I'm almost convinced she's right. So let's play total head-up-our-arse devil's advocate here. Let's say she's right, and I am an a-hole. Let's say she's also being somewhat honest, at least on the big points of there not being an affair (remember, head-up-the-arse mode here, I know it's a stretch), etc. So what. She's also right (pull head out now... real truth here) that I can't deal with whatever is going on, affair or not. I can't deal with the dishonesty. I can't deal with her new found disliking of wearing her wedding rings. Hell, I've even gone retroactive and can't deal with the fact that she's NEVER been one to use the phrases "we, us, our", etc. She's prefers the singular way to refer to everything in life.
Dude you can "what if" this thing till the cows come home. Bottom line......
Are you happy right now?
Is this shitt ok with you? Meaning do you want to live this way indefinitely?
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So here I am, listing to OT, Jack, Puppy and others tell me that I need to define and then adopt boundaries. Well, I know what they are but it's clear that my W has no intention of respecting them. So now what?
Again, I think you're missing the most important aspect of a boundary and that is the ACTION behind it. NO WAIVERING, NO BS'ING, you just start doing.
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So here we sit. An impasse. I am struggling mightily with where to go from here. I do want to save this marriage but I am seeing such apathy in my W it's scary. Maybe I am to blame, I don't know anymore. All I know is that I am consumed with anger, fear, dread, hopelessness and just about every other emotion that can cause your stomach to be in constant knots.
You've gotta get rid of this fear man. What are you clinging on to right now? A life full of fear,dread,hopelessness...???
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I need work on my side of the fence, especially since it may be time to start DOING something to respect those boundaries myself.
There is no maybe about it IMO. You've done the talking, you have your answers.
It is time.... however this needs to be carefully thought out and you need to dig deep and be strong about this. You have to get past all of this fear.
First things first. Thanks trapt and I will answer your question; yes, I am willing to live this way indefinitely if that's what it will take to save my marriage. Of course the trick is in knowing when to stop existing parallel and start moving one way or another.
On to my general response to your post...
From that post, I distill "it is time" as the overall theme. Yea, I get that, but time for what? File for "D"? Seems a bit of an over-reaction to me at this point. Go dark? Maybe. What else? Maybe I need to brush up on my boundary setting so I can properly understand what to DO in the case of emergency.
What action should I be taking?
DBing and ALL I DO is about saving my marriage. That's the sole reason I am here. Yes, saving myself is part of that my saving my marriage is the ultimate goal. I suspect that much of what I am hearing is not so much about that. Yes, I said I want to save myself first but all this "action" and such doesn't seem like it's going towards that end. As I ALWAYS say, I can walk away whenever. That's the last resort for me, and always an option. What to do before that. I can go to a 1000 places, describe my situation and get the "dude, your W is clearly having an affair so you need to tell her 'end it or else' and then if she doesn't, you need to get a divorce." If I accepted that point of view, I would not be here. This is not an issue of boundaries or not, it's a simple matter of philosophical starting points.
So what you (and I will use you trapt as a stand in for everyone since I am hearing a lot of this lately) are saying is that this action I need to take right now will help save my marriage? How so? OR are you simply saying, as so many have said before (mostly from outside the DB community), that it's intolerable to suffer through the kind of things my W is doing and it's time for me to get out while the getting's good?
That's not a rhetorical question. I am seriously confused about how that advice will help save my marriage. Sure, it may make me more happy but DB is all about putting the marriage first and making saving it the priority, even if it comes at some personal costs, or even a lot of personal sacrifice.
(EDITED IN) To clarify, I know DBing is a whole lot of focusing on self. I am not blind to that but I am simply saying the GOAL of it is 100% about saving a marriage. I just want to be sure the goal of the advice I am getting is 100% about saving my marriage and not something else.
Thanks for helping, even if that help comes mainly in allowing me to refocus on what I want out of this process.
Last edited by grasshopper; 05/06/1001:37 PM. Reason: clarification
