So I should allow the counter argument to go unchallenged? I should allow xW, OM, xMIL, et al., make their statements that this M is valid and respectable, when they have all denigrated the M and the family they conspired to destroy? Simply because that was then and this is now? Should one's loyalties be so transient? To deny one and uphold the other?
There is no argument or counter argument. They are married. They have entered into a legally binding contract. It is valid, even though the relationship began in a bed of lies. It is not a bigamous marriage, it is simply a marriage. Their marriage is their business, not yours. There is nothing you can say or do that will make it or break it, that is entirely up to them. I believe that putting them down and making disparaging remarks about their marriage will make you appear weaker, not stronger. But that is my opinion, for what it is worth. If your children talk to you about it you can make general comments, but to tear them down personally is probably not helpful. I hve had conversations with my kids (D12 in particular) where I have expressed to her my personal bneliefs. I have told ehr that I do not believe in divorce, unless it is a case of abuse, yet I am divorced. I have talked to her about the importance of working on relationships...all relationships. She knows my values and my morals. She sees her dad's morals and values, and she does not agree with them. But she still loves him as her father. Your kids are going to love their mother, they can do that without it causing damage to your relationships.
"You can't stop the waves, but you can learn to surf." Jon Kabat-Zinn
I will do whatever is necessary that is best for my S's. Let me state that unequivocally.
However, that is not going to stop me from questioning the rationality and the assumptions for every little detail behind any prescribed course to that end. Do you follow?
I am in a serious mode now, given the fracturing of my world, my family, to which I am compelled to question everything. I am not going to accept "conventional wisdom" at face value. That does not mean I won't accept any of it at all -- instead it means I will carefully weigh the entire body of thought that has supposedly gone into these accepted notions before I consign myself to adopting any of them. But the case has to be fully brought and delivered in its entirety first.
So, case in point: You state that their M is none of my business. That's a pretty blunt, unqualified statement. And given any other circumstance, I would immediately agree with you. However, can anyone give me a rational reason why I should respect their M when neither of them had the decency to respect mine?
Even were you to convince me that encouraging my S's to honor their mother's new union as in their best interests, there is still this utter hypocrisy about also totally disregarding the covenant I had had with their mother -- and thereby totally invalidating the family the four of us once shared.
xW is the one who left the family, who wanted out -- not I. This was all herdecision, so should she not be the one to make any concessions? And by the same token, why should her new M be given even a shred of credence when she breached the "legally binding contract" she had with me?
On another tact, if my calling into question the legitimacy of their M and their "family" would make me appear petty and weak, then I ask why should I have to? Why should I have to say anything (or feel that I have to)? Shouldn't it be obvious to everyone that can think beyond herd mentality that these two adulterers have forfeited any pretense to equal treatment? They broke the laws (in this state still at least), despite its lack of enforcement, and now they should be rewarded for it? And you want to further compound the injustice of this by granting them the same protections and recognition that were denied me and my family?
It's an insane, F'ed up world, I realize. But I am not obligated to be party to such batchitcraziness.
And it really saddens me that I would have to explain this to anyone here in the DB forums.
Still, having said the forgoing, for the sake of my sons I will do what is absolutely necessary for their well being. But I will weigh my own scales and make my own considerations as to how I see the best path (or lesser of evils.) And if that should require being just another lamb being led to slaughter, so be it, but I will not go blindly or without acknowledging the injustice of it all.
And it really saddens me that I would have to explain this to anyone here in the DB forums.
I read both DB and DR and must have missed the chapter that said it was best to stay stuck on the past, poison children's minds, hold grudges, be judgemental and be one angry a$$hole. Hmmm, I always thought Michele's underlying philosophy was brief solution oriented therapy so as to solve problems going forward without digging up a painful past.
But after today, I'm thinking the obsession is with protecting what's left of my family.
I had a meeting with S5's preschool teachers. He has been experiencing some problems of late, which I have mentioned his teachers wanting to discuss. He is expressing some emotional problems and some frustration with his speech. The bottom-line is that we're going to have S5 screened for Asperger's, just to make sure that's not it. He now tends to emulate some of the behaviors of his older brother (who does have AS).
The meeting ended on a hopeful note, with a plan of action. The goal is to make sure S5 is ready for kindergarten in the Fall. He's certainly bright and intelligent enough.
I am thinking that his turn in behavior is most likely temporary, and that S5 will again readjust.
I am also thinking that his two parents have been F'ing his life up lately.
xW was there at the meeting. She was her typical, post-bomb self. The only difference of note was that she did not, as she had many times before, taken the opportunity to proclaim to the teachers that I am totally to blame for our child's failings. The fact she contained herself to that degree was a welcome relief, and a breath of fresh air actually.
Perhaps having M'ed her affair partner, or just getting that goal behind her, she will start to lighten up. We shall see. I won't hold my breath, but we shall see.
As for myself, I could look at xW, sitting there across the table, and safely say there is now nothing there. She is just not the same person that I had married. At all. She is just an empty shell. It's sad, maybe, but also a bit of a relief to again recognize that I am free from this strange person.
As such, I came to the conclusion that the anger I feel is for the loss to myself and my family, my S's. It has been a disappointment that this stranger (xW) who took my spouse away would further injure me by removing me from my S's, if I let her.
So I looked at her and felt practically nothing -- I realized that my foremost concern was not for her, but for my S's, with S5 in this particular case. Whatever he needs to help him succeed was the chief order of business -- and I determined that if xW was also sincere enough to put S5 and S9 first, then I would be content to keep peace.
I read both DB and DR and must have missed the chapter that said it was best to stay stuck on the past, poison children's minds, hold grudges, be judgemental and be one angry a$$hole. Hmmm, I always thought Michele's underlying philosophy was brief solution oriented therapy so as to solve problems going forward without digging up a painful past.
You state that their M is none of my business. That's a pretty blunt, unqualified statement. And given any other circumstance, I would immediately agree with you. However, can anyone give me a rational reason why I should respect their M when neither of them had the decency to respect mine?
I never said you should respect it, I simply said it is not your business and there is nothing you can do about it. It is a legal marriage. The law allows divorce and remarriage. You cannot change that.
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Even were you to convince me that encouraging my S's to honor their mother's new union as in their best interests, there is still this utter hypocrisy about also totally disregarding the covenant I had had with their mother -- and thereby totally invalidating the family the four of us once shared.
I would never tell you to encourage your sons to honor their mother's new marriage. All I have said is that it is not in your best interests to make derogatory remarks. It will not raise you in your sons esteem. Why does it have to be an extreme, honor/degrade...why not indiferrence? I know where you are coming from, my X left for OW and married her 14 days after our divorce was final. We had 4 kids together and were married for 21 years. I have never said anything positive to my children about their marriage, nor have I said anything negative. And now my daughter who is 12 has figured it all out on her own.
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They broke the laws (in this state still at least), despite its lack of enforcement, and now they should be rewarded for it? And you want to further compound the injustice of this by granting them the same protections and recognition that were denied me and my family?
You don't have the power to grant or take away anything from them. Their marriage exists within the law, yes the same laws they broke to get to that point. Why do you have to comment at all. All I am saying is that making your sons feel bad about their mother is not going to make them feel better about you. Why waste the time that you have with them being negative? Focus on them and the positives that you have together!
"You can't stop the waves, but you can learn to surf." Jon Kabat-Zinn
I think you don't have to worry about your kids getting the wrong ideas about marriage and fidelity from your X. They will learn from you. Not by what you say, but what you do.
My kids are just a couple years ahead in maturity than yours, and they really do realize that. I was talking to D10 last night. I think she is realizing what her dad is like. I'll post more of that on my thread, so I don't hijack yours. But I find myself kind of defending him, which I kind of don't want to do. I don't think I should defend my X anymore than you should say anything about your X whether negative or positive. It's easier said than done though!!!!
I think the trick is when we realize and present to our children the fact that human beings are just that, human beings. They get confused, they make mistakes and they sometimes hurt each other. The things our spouses may have done to us were not right but usually they've been dealing with their own pain longer than we ever realized. When we thought we were living the good life they were living something they experienced as entirely different. Whose fault is that? Probably both parties to some degree. Certainly, we can yell "but I didn't cheat" and there is some validity to that but when people hurt they do some terrible things. I remember my Pastor saying to me "the one thing I've learned in this job is that good people in difficult situations can do some really bad things" We don't need to present our spouses as evil nor do we need to defend them, we just have to present them as they are...as human beings.
