Question about Detachment Sermon

[Round2]

What I find most confusing is WHY in the world my stbx wants to now take credit for my 'Growing Up' or for 'Changing'
He has mentioned he sees my changes and he is very proud of me. He says he has never seen me so healthy and he KNOWS that if it weren't for him leaving me that he knows that would never have happened.

I know we are to believe nothing of what they say and half of what they do. When I hear him tell me I am still his Best Friend, that he cares about me, him hugging me etc... this is when I get most confused. It's much easier for me when I don't see him at all.

One day he can be blaming me for his unhappy life and then next as sweet as pie. It's crazy.

The saddest time for me was when I looked at my H telling me he was DONE and I saw Nothing there. He was an empty vessel, hallow eyes with nothing there. I had never seen this before.

I could not for the life of me figure out what happened.
Book by book and eventually search engine by search engine got me here to this forum... by FAR the BEST place I have been with the MOST information anywhere. I believe mostly from the ones that have been around for years that really take the time to TEACH us.

I have read MANY books, re: MLC many that are recommended here as well, but the posts are BY FAR the most helpful...not because I read word for word and think that is how it will happen for me, but when your where I am, lost and alone and having no idea what in the world just happened, its a very scary place to be...having Faith in God and leaning on him for Strength does help as well.. BUT having REAL people share REAL experiences and give REAL advice or input has been life changing for me...little by little everyday.

I am so appreciative.

I thank you for continuing to take time out of your busy schedule to sit and share what God has placed on your heart with each of us. You have a very special gift and I believe that God led me to this site so that I could learn as much as I am from yourself, as well as others like Snodderly, OP, JTB, etc.

HB, I personally think you should write a book.

[dbs]

R2-I'm with ya on that. I did pick up a book on women & MLC that was very helpful for me. My wife is 52, and most of the talk in there was about more middle age things, but then I remember that my wife started to take her journey at 36 and it just seems she's never stopped?

Let me give you a little of my success from my sitch.

We've been married 33 years with 6 kids and 13 grandkids. I was not the best husband for the first 15 years in regards to listening to, validating and cherishing my wife. She grew tired of it, filed for a D and had a PA. We reconciled after 4 months and I thought it was better after a few years.

Fast forward another 15 years. The youngest child goes off to college and 2 weeks later the wife again moves out w/o notice, files for D and swears she could never ever be intimate again or be a wife to anyone. I went into a deep depression for 6 months while she took every opportunity it seemed to let me have it verbally. After NC for 3 months, and close to that youngest daughters wedding she decided to call off the D and move back (not the same house though) and work on the M.

For the first several weeks it was honeymoon city. I mean I couldn't walk (it was great). This from the woman who could never, ever do that again. If people see a change in YOU, that helps to spark a change in them. Miracles are indeed possible. She called off the D the morning we were supposed to be in court.

The problem is neither one of us did enough to change what we needed to. We somehow got back to the casual relationship that caused the problem and she left again and filed again.
I can fault me for not doing the work I should have done the last 9 months she was gone.

Things can change. But you cannot waste the time you have to change and improve you, which is part of this journey. There are no guarantees. I remember the day we had a conference call to call off the D. I could not believe she would do it. I remember the first night back together like 2 young teenagers. Even with where things are at right now, they bring a smile to my face, but I would caution anyone, do all the work you can on you while you have the time. Do NOT let this opportunity pass you by. Good luck!

I am not sure there will be any miracle with a last minute call off by her this go around. Still there is the opportunity for me to create a miracle in me by changing those things that are undesirable and need to be changed within myself. Go forward and make the changes you need to make for YOU.

[HeartsBlessing]

Hello Round2,

What I find most confusing is WHY in the world my stbx wants to now take credit for my 'Growing Up' or for 'Changing'
He has mentioned he sees my changes and he is very proud of me. He says he has never seen me so healthy and he KNOWS that if it weren't for him leaving me that he knows that would never have happened.

Maybe this is to try and lessen his guilt? His way of "rewriting" history to make it look more favorable toward him, because, in his mind, he THINKS he's done you a favor?

Not on your life..he has his own agenda here, and I think it IS to try and lessen his guilt over what he's done to you. I'd bypass that, take it with a grain of salt; don't worry about it, and continue to concentrate on you.

No one is "doing favors" when they tear a life/family all to pieces. What would he have done or even said, if you HADN'T started doing ANY changing? Something to think about.

They DO have moments of clarity, but they're few and far in between. How I see it, YOU would get the credit for your beginning to grow up, going through change, Round2, NOT him.

YOU'RE the one who decided this, NOT him. I sound harsh, but I have heard/read many things MLC'ers will say/do to try and keep the guilty conscience from rearing its unwelcome head.
And he IS feeling guilty, as well he should.

One day he can be blaming me for his unhappy life and then next as sweet as pie. It's crazy.

That's definitely MLC at work, one extreme one day, the other the next..that's why detaching and distancing yourself from his drama is helpful...so you won't go off the deep end yourself.
They are masters of the twisted word and sometimes actions.
Again, don't buy into that...it's him, not you.

The saddest time for me was when I looked at my H telling me he was DONE and I saw Nothing there. He was an empty vessel, hallow eyes with nothing there. I had never seen this before.

Do you remember hearing someone talking about the "deer in the headlights" look? That's pretty much it...I can remember a couple of years or so later on when things had gotten much better for my husband and I, that I saw a picture that was taken during the time he was in MLC, and it actually startled me...the eyes were literally wild, and that SAME glassy eyed stare.
Like the light was on, but no one was at home.

This seems to be a common thing within all MLC'ers;
There's NO life in the eyes; and I'd thought I was seeing things at first as I'd watched my husband; especially AFTER I totally detached from him, and didn't like what I saw in his eyes..like you saw, NOTHING but what seemed to be an empty shell...but I saw this same look in EVERY MLC'er I've encountered since then.

I have read MANY books, re: MLC many that are recommended here as well, but the posts are BY FAR the most helpful...not because I read word for word and think that is how it will happen for me, but when your where I am, lost and alone and having no idea what in the world just happened, its a very scary place to be...having Faith in God and leaning on him for Strength does help as well.. BUT having REAL people share REAL experiences and give REAL advice or input has been life changing for me...little by little everyday.

I know exactly what you mean, R2; when I came here 9 years ago, the people here were a mix of oldtimers, new posters, and so many great mentors.
I already had gotten what I had to do in the way of change, but was unsure of how to do it; I can say the Lord led me here...and got the help I needed to start my journey.

For nearly three years or a little more, I stayed on the board; later on helping others.

I did all the writings later on, as I was farther down the road.
When it was time, in late 2003,(times/dates of this gives me trouble now, and I guess alot at that) I believe, I left the board.
My husband finished coming out, and I went into The Change; battling first the physical changes then emotional changes back to back, LOL!!
It was a good thing I had NOT come back during the time I went through the change, I could NOT have helped anyone during that time. I came out 2 years ago.

As far as I had known throughout that time, I was never to return...and in time, forgot this place; it became a distant memory to me.

Strange thing, though, I was sent back here around three weeks ago, for a specific purpose, and when I accomplish that purpose, I will leave again. I'm not exactly sure what the Lord has in mind this time; all I know is that I'm supposed to help someone or several someones, whether directly or indirectly, I'm STILL not sure...I haven't gotten a really clear answer on this just yet.
Just a "Wait and don't leave until I tell you to" answer, when I ask Him.

All I knew at the time was that I had to come back; it would be for a period of time, how long, I'm not sure.
He has never been this cryptic with me before. But the answers have been forthcoming, almost like it was before; with me reading, my mind filling, and typing answers as they came.
When I go back to read, it's like reading what someone else wrote. The writing style is coming back to what it was before.
I think I just have to let go once again, and allow Him to give me total complete help like I did once before.
I've had NO small fears of possibly returning to the place I was, then, but those fears are lessening as time goes on, and I let go a little more.
My memories are fragmented and broken from healing, and from all I've endured....but I'M not broken, and the Lord has given me back certain memories at certain times when they have been needed.
Once used, they are gone again; until such a time they are needed.
They do NOT affect me; the healing was and is complete, so I do not "relive" those times..to me, they are just a fact; no feelings are attached.
That's why it doesn't bother me to talk about what I went through. I can be candid without it hurting me; it's hard to explain, but I no longer hurt, except for others.

The reason I did a search and found this place again to begin with:
A friend of mine's husband has dropped the bomb on her, I didn't think anything about it, was answering her as He directed me to, but my memory opened up to allow me to remember what I'd written, but wasn't sure where to find it again.
I found some stuff, but there was more I needed, so I set up again, complete with my old user name.
Even stranger, when I reset up my old user name, again under instruction, I got it back with no trouble...surely someone, I'd figured would have probably taken mine by now; or so I thought.

I'm STILL trying to sort this out as we speak. Talk about crazy stuff that happens to me, but I don't question it as it happens. My husband STILL doesn't understand this about me.
Claims he doesn't believe in what God has blessed me with, but will ask me questions about different things to get my "take" on it...never have understood that. IF you don't believe, why ask?

HB, I personally think you should write a book.

I don't think anyone would read it, for starters, LOL...seriously, these things were given to me for free, and I share it with others for the same price, free.

The Lord has more than satisfied my needs over time; I have a good job, don't have any more of a need than what money(a necessary evil)I need to help pay the bills.

As He has given to me, so I have given unto others; silver and gold have I none, as Peter would say, but what I give is what God has graciously seen fit to give me so I CAN share with others.

He is the greatest counselor there is, in my book, and it has been my experience that some need to see the Lord with "skin on"..and that is why people like me exist.
Each one of us can hear Him, if we just get quiet and listen; He doesn't shout, He's the still small voice we can recognize if we're open to Him.

NO, I'm NOT special, neither do I have an ego of any sort, just an humble servant of the Lord, who makes more than her share of mistakes, but has a desire to serve the Lord in whatever way He would have me to do.
He provided a way for me to get answers "Seek and ye shall find, knock and it shall be answered" helping me to utilize every tool available to help me to increase my knowledge and wisdom.

You cannot help another until you have walked in their shoes; it might not be exactly the SAME path, but the similarities can be close enough that you can STILL come alongside of that person, and STILL help them.

Bless you, R2, God is indeed with you, and is strengthening you daily; stay open to Him; He allows things to happen for a reason.
And He did, indeed, bring you here for a reason.
As time progresses, you'll be shown that reason, and you'll know for certain He has His Hand on you.

[HeartsBlessing]

Hello dbs,
You didn't think I'd leave without answering you, too, did you?

R2-I'm with ya on that. I did pick up a book on women & MLC that was very helpful for me. My wife is 52, and most of the talk in there was about more middle age things, but then I remember that my wife started to take her journey at 36 and it just seems she's never stopped?

I have heard some interesting stories in times past about women that have spent ALOT of time within The Change..one story I heard was that one lady I knew spent 12 years within, and it was a truly awful journey, as much for her as her husband.

Well, it is possible that your wife took that first part of the journey at 36(the first part is supposed to come between 36 and 39), it lasted for a time, finished..and it is possible she is in the 2nd part of her journey, that is supposed to come between the ages of 48 to 53.
If you think backwards and can remember, was there any kind of break in between these stages, or did she just seem to continue, and may be the break was so slight, you might have missed it?
Something to think about here.

I'm speculating here, what I posted above was based on research I did a number of years ago. I was surprised at the time to find out women were supposed to go through two stages of the journey, at the ages I posted, but yet I went through mine back to back in a period of six years..starting at 35, ending when I was 41. Menopause(which is the physical part) came first, then the Transitional part(also known as the Midlife Transition/emotional change/crisis)came right after.

I was one miserable human being, let me tell you during that time. It IS possible to suffer Menopause, and STILL have a MLC or MLTransition.
Snodderly posted that reminder, it was one of the things I had forgotten; yet I had posted my journey as I remembered it on OP's thread somewhere. When she posted that, and I went back to read, I realized I had gone through back to back..and hopefully, I won't have to worry about that "second" stage part, as I'll have already navigated it.

I don't know for sure...and this is NOT about me..I'm speculating on your wife, in the hopes that this might help you understand a little more if you can remember.

I've actually heard several men complain their wives went in and have not come out; just as you were saying about your wife.

I also know this doesn't always follow "textbook", and can be quite confusing, if you think too hard on the subject.

I have struggled with memory loss since then; some memories come back, some I can't find, some come forward with NO warning....and some, I think got lost somewhere along the way..maybe unimportant.
Anyway, it seems people have to ask the right questions to get what they need; and I wish I knew the right questions to ask, so I could answer them.
This a HUMAN side of me that I wish I could fix, but I can't.

The problem is neither one of us did enough to change what we needed to. We somehow got back to the casual relationship that caused the problem and she left again and filed again.
I can fault me for not doing the work I should have done the last 9 months she was gone.

You are taking total responsibility for what YOU did..and that's one of the first steps to fixing your mistakes.

You're human, not divine, and although a little more time will be added on for the mistake..at least you're seeing it, that's great progress.
But, more importantly, you're seeing that your wife made that SAME mistake, but you're not focused on her; you're focused on YOU.

Things can change. But you cannot waste the time you have to change and improve you, which is part of this journey. There are no guarantees. I remember the day we had a conference call to call off the D. I could not believe she would do it. I remember the first night back together like 2 young teenagers. Even with where things are at right now, they bring a smile to my face, but I would caution anyone, do all the work you can on you while you have the time. Do NOT let this opportunity pass you by. Good luck!

I am not sure there will be any miracle with a last minute call off by her this go around. Still there is the opportunity for me to create a miracle in me by changing those things that are undesirable and need to be changed within myself. Go forward and make the changes you need to make for YOU.

Great advice, dbs, and I see again where you're looking within YOU to see what went wrong. That's another part of YOUR individual growth.

Don't beat yourself to pieces over it; you cannot change what is set in stone, so all you can do is forgive yourself for being human, pick yourself up, dust yourself off, and have another round at it. You WILL make it through, I know you can.

Each one of us "create this miracle" within ourselves when we take our individual journeys, making lasting changes that can only make us better people in the end.

You are absolutely right in the fact that the time taken to change you, is NOT wasted time, it's time well-spent; as each of us NEED to do this for OURSELVES, not for anyone else.

As we change the people around us change, even the MLC'er has to change in order to relate to us as we become different people. This is NOT control or manipulation; each one of us are meant to grow into what God meant for us to become when we entered this path to growth and eventually permanent change within.

It is also within this growth that old wounds are opened, examined, the "why and where am I wounded, and what can I do to fix this within?" questions are answered, and eventually, you heal.

Of course, nothing is ever really simple, it's a complicated process, taking us down many roads, many paths, we get help for the things we don't understand, and TIME is a factor, as it takes time to come through.

But, it is worth every minute we spend looking within, fighting the battles, effecting those permanent changes of a lifetime.

You're well on your way.

The love you hold for your wife comes strongly off this post; you have troubles trying to understand what's going on at times, but you still hold on, love, and hope.

There is ALWAYS hope within EVERY situation, and I feel that you're holding on tightly, but still making your changes, fixing your mistakes, and learning from those.
You're reached the end of your rope several different times, but manage to tie yet another knot onto the rope, hanging on tighter.
It's not over until it's over.

I send up a prayer for all each day, that God will strengthen each and every one of you in your journeys.

I hate seeing people go through this..if it was up to me, and I've said this many times, NO ONE would go through this hurt..but that is not up to me, and so I pray.

Take care of yourself, and hang in there; God is not done with your wife yet. Continue to let go and let Him work within her.

Miracles CAN and do happen each day, I sincerely believe this with all my heart.

Have a great evening.

[dbs]

HB-I am not easily brought to tears, but my eyes are sweating right now making it hard to type after reading your post.

My response at length is on my other thread, so I'll try not to hi-jack this one.

My wife on round #1 had the crazed look during her PA time. Lied when the truth would fit better. Abandoned the most precious things to her, our kids during that time. In looking back, I never got to where she wanted me to be, and I still was not listening very good. She was emotionally detached most of the next 10 years.

Then around her 45th B-day she began to...well just be bitchy all the time, about everything. Our kids would come over on Sunday or whatever with the gkids and I'd be excited to have them there and feed them and she'd say something rude and go in the bedroom, so they'd leave. This kind of behavior persisted for another 4-5 years, and just got worse with her on my case incessantly. If we tried counseling, "they were all on my side". She began to just shut down, I was not very understanding, and she left again and filed for a D.

When I saw her for the first time after she left this time, a few weeks later she was genuinly happy to see me. We went out to dinner and a ball game and had a blast, but she would bring me back to earth telling me that she knew it was not Gods plan for a D, but she was doing it anyway.

I watched her getting darker and darker. I mean that figuratively, but also in actual looks. Others may know what I am saying. A few years later I found out she was being immoral during this time and trying to justify it. Her eyes during this time were as others have noted, completely empty of the spark that was normally there. After encouraging me to come over one evening, we ended up where I thought she wanted to go on the couch, only to have her freak out and then call her attorney who convinced her to file a police report for sexual assault. I had really not even done anything but this opened up my eyes as to where she was at, and the restraining order forced the NC for 3 months even though she would call me.

My kids were furious. At an upcoming baby blessing they told her that if she did not lift the order, it was her or me, and it was going to be me. That's the point that she started to see what her choices were doing to her family.

It took 2 more months to have things thaw between us with an upcoming wedding of our youngest daughter. The light came back into her eyes, and she rethought what was really important to her-her family and how a D would forever make a mess of that.

As I stated earlier, things after that were wonderfully great for awhile, but here I am now with another D on the horizon. I have to say that I have not seen the darkness (yet) of the other times. The weird, dysfunctional, unlogical behavior is everywhere, but her eyes still have a warmth and light to them.

I'm hoping this has not get off the topic too much, or about me and my sitch. It was meant to give others an idea that there is indeed hope. I heard "I'm done" alot during this time, as also the "can't be intimate speech" on a regular basis. I'm now hearing "I'm damaged goods" talk.

The point is-To them and ourselves. We CAN do anything we set our minds to, if we have the proper motivation. It has to come from within. Outside experiences can influence us and them for good, we all like to be treated with kindness. Don't get too discouraged when you hear they are "done" or they can't do this or that. Or when you say it yourself. Us humans are a pretty resilient bunch. Sometimes it just takes us awhile. Sometimes that while will be more then we are willing to wait. That may be ok too.

[Round2]

HB,

I wish I knew how to insert quotes, It seems much easier to write back that way ( In time I am sure I will learn that trick).

I wanted to say as I read above and how much all of this brings back the old feelings for you at times, I admire your courage to allow yourself to experience some of these things again (just to help some of us out). Thank you for that.

You mentioned God sending you back to the site about 3 weeks ago and although you mentioned it being also because of someone your mentoring, I couldn't help but say aloud ( It was for ME and smile) God answered my prayers....as I believe he really did.

I don't even remember how I got to this site, but it was about 3 weeks ago that I began poking around and reading and reading, I bought the book and then began to post.

I know you mentioned before not having young children and with mine being 7 and 5 I have been praying an awful lot lately about this 'move'. I have asked God to please answer me. Is this the right thing for them? For Me?

I know its what the stbx H wants as I think it would make his OLD LIFE just disappear and he would be able to Live in his MLC Replay without the burden of seeing his children. Sadly this is how it has become. He is always SICK and can never seem to make it over. There is always 'something' and my poor children arent used to this Daddy....they are used to the Daddy that spent every waking moment with them and adored them.

I will always Love my H and will never marry again. Even when the divorce is final. In my heart I will always be married to him, I take the covenant of marriage very seriously.

I just wonder if leaving and returning home to where our entire family is will be best. It's very difficult for my D7 when she doesn't see him for just 3 or 4 days.... much less 3 weeks at a time between his visits there once we move.

I want to take care of myself ( healing, growing, learning ) I dont want to stick around and watch him drag my children into his new OW relations, not showing up to see them, putting his new personal social life before them, etc.
I need to take care of US since he certainly IS NOT!

He was pushing the D paperwork and needing to have it done so quickly before so he could get a tax credit and buy himself a house but as soon as I made changes to it and stated that the child support would need to be taken from his check each week and direct deposited to my account its come to a SLOW crawl....

I wonder if it is because he sees just how BROKE he will be.
Originally he wanted to just pay the kids private christian school tuition but since I see how behind he is even now at their school, I set a boundary (yeah me) and said no.
Since then I havent seen the revised papers.

I am NOT getting my hopes us because I know he is filing, I mean afterall he did already tell him he is interested in someone, so I know its happening, I just found it funny to watch him THINK he was going to orchestrate the demise of our marriage as well as make sure the D was just how it needed to be for his pocket.
NOT!

Such a difficult place to be. He decides to go into replay ( I think for the 2nd time, (came home for 14 months and gone again) drops the bomb and filed for D this time. I now need to walk away from our Dream here, uproot my children and start our lives over alone back home while he stays here and plays Single and starts his life over.

Again walking away from his responsibility of his children like he did his 1st son.

If and when he EVER gets through the tunnel and really sees and realizes what damage he has done to his children it will devastate him.

I pray for him everyday, sometimes more often than others.
I want so badly for God to rush to him and rescue him from this horrific ride he is about to embark upon...but I know better and God will not cross his Free Will.... this is when I get SAD, I want so badly for my H whom I love to know that God is the ONLY one that can fill that void he is so frantically looking to fill by OW/other vises....

Thanks for listening and for caring.
Thank you for the prayers as well. May God be with you on your travels.

[HeartsBlessing]

To insert quotes: You do a "bracket" "[" then type "quote" , then put an ending bracket "]", copy and paste the statement you want to quote,(or even type it out) then after that you do another bracket "[" then backslash "/" then type "quote" ending it with another bracket "]"

Remember to put NO spaces between any of it, nor quotations, as I've only done that for help purposes.. I've illustrated by putting quotations around the bracket as I go through each step.

Well, shoot;
I was hoping the dang thing would do right, but the first one didn't, I kept getting my statement with a parenthesis on each end, and no "illustration".

[/quote] then when you've put the statement you've pasted on the end, [/quote]

Just remember there is NO backslash on that first "quote" word; but there IS a backslash on the second one; this seems to be the only way I can illustrate it without confusing you.
Also remember you CAN preview your post before sending it, to see if it works.

If I'm not trying, I make an awful mess, and the code shows, just as it did in my illustration, LOL!!

I'm reading, and praying as I read, R2; I will be back tomorrow; speak to you, then.

[brandnewday]

The Potter Is Shaping The Clay -

"This is the word that came to Jeremiah from the Lord. 'Go down
to the potter's house, and there I will give you my message.'
So I went down to the potter's house and I saw him working at
the wheel. But the pot he was shaping from the clay was marred
in his hands; so the potter formed it into another pot, shaping
it as seem best to him." Jeremiah 18:1-4

"Lord, bless this dear stander today. Lord, I pray for You to
give this husband or wife the divine wisdom they need today for
their most urgent need. Holy Spirit speak to Your child's heart
as they read this devotional. May they ask these questions;
'What do You want to show and say to me today, Lord? What is
Your will for my life? Open my spiritual eyes and ears so that I
may see, hear and receive this message from You. Lord, please
remold and make me into the person You want me to be. I thank
You that you love me and my beloved husband/wife. I pray that
You will start remolding my spouse and loved ones to be the men
and women of God you created them to be. May You remold and make
each of us to be as patient and loving as You are. Lord, please
start working and reshaping our family. Thank You for speaking
to my heart today in a very special way, in the wonderful Name of
Jesus. Amen.'"

Have you ever seen a potter make a vase with clay? If you have
children, they would enjoy seeing and observing how so many
products are made. Some time ago, Bob and I went to a church
service where we witnessed an awesome testimony and a live
demonstration of a potter working with a huge block of clay,
molding and making it into a beautiful vase. The couple had a
restored marriage. They traveled giving their testimony. The
wife sang while the husband was giving a live demonstration of
working with the clay, making a vase and sharing scriptures, as
he told his personal testimony.

I love visuals! The presentation was remarkable. The husband
had been a potter and the wife was a singer. They both were
successful in their own careers. They had marriage problems and
God did the rest by becoming the Potter for their own lives.

"Then the word of the Lord came to me: "O house of Israel, can
I not do with you as this potter does?" declares the LORD.
"Like clay in the hand of the potter, so are you in my hand,
O house of Israel." Jeremiah 18:5-6

God is asking you every day to surrender your mess of your life,
your marriage, your mind, your will, your emotion and being to
become like clay in God's mighty hands and allow Him to mold and
make you to be the person He wants you to be. Are you willing?
Will you allow the Lord to do what He wants to do with your
life? I know in my personal life twenty-five years ago, I had my
own plans and own ideas as to my goals in my life and marriage.
I wanted the Lord to bless them, but I did not expect Him to have
a daily part in my life. That is a problem with God, as He
created us and wants to use each of us in His kingdom daily. We
can become a "willing vessel" or an hindrance to His plan.

What are you doing with your life today? I was not ready or
suitable for the Lord to use me so many years ago, but the Lord
got my attention, through a divorce, and I realized that I needed
His help more than I could ever have imagined. I had made a mess
in so many areas of my life and in my most important relationship,
my husband. When I surrendered my life to His will and way, my
Lord put me on the potter's wheel as a piece of clay, broken and
marred, wanting to make me into a new vessel with His plans for
my life. I, as the vessel, was not suitable at the beginning
when the Master Potter started working on me, as I had deep
marks, defects and woundings. My Potter (God) had to remold me
and make me into something beautiful that He wanted to create.

"Then the world of the LORD came to me: 'O house of Israel, can
I not do with you as this potter does?' declares the Lord.
'Like clay in the hand of the potter, so are you in my hand, O
house of Israel. If at any time I announce that a nation or
kingdom is to be uprooted, torn down and destroyed, and if that
nation I warned repents of its evil, then I will relent and not
inflict on it the disaster I had planned. And if at another
time I announce that a nation or kingdom is to be built up and
planted, and if it does evil in my sight and does not obey me,
then I will reconsider the good I had intended to do for
it...So turn from your evil ways each one of you, and reform
your ways and your actions." Jeremiah 18:5-11

Are you willing to trust your Lord with your life forever? Allow
Him to transform you into a new creature in Christ. Will you
allow Him to remold and make you into the husband or wife that
you need to become? Allow the Potter to remold and make you into
the vessel that is His plan. You need to give God permission and
submit to God to remold both your character and your service to
Him as He determines. God's plans for your life will be much
more exciting, and will have a much larger goal and purpose.
Please remember to pray daily that your husband/wife will also
surrender their life right now to the Master Potter!

"Look at the nations and watch--For I am going to do something
in your days that you would not believe, even if you were
told." Habakkuk 1:5

Imagine if you had been the Sunday School teacher or the one who
prayed as a prayer warrior for Billy Graham or D.L. Moody or Rick
Warren, or David Jeremiah or Beth Moore, or Jim or Carol Cymbala
as they were growing up! God uses ordinary people to make big
accomplishments in His kingdom. Don't limit your God to what He
will use you for, or what your children or grandchildren could
end up accomplishing many years from now. Nothing is impossible
with God!

"I will instruct you and teach you in the way you should go; I
will counsel you and watch over you." Psalm 32:8

Regardless of your past or present circumstances, God the Potter,
can make you, your spouse and children into beautiful creatures
in Christ, if we each will allow ourselves to become like clay.
Today surrender your all to the Potter and say:

"Lord, I know it takes time and effort to make a beautiful vessel
from clay. I want You to do this to me. I surrender my life to
You! You God, the Potter, put me, my spouse and my family on
your wheel and mold us back together again. Lord, You know our
deep hidden chambers of bitterness, hatred, anger, jealousy,
unforgiveness, revenge, sharp tongue, and hardness of heart.
Please remove and cut away all that is not of You. Today, mold
us, melt us, and fill us up with You, in the mighty name of
Jesus. Amen."

"Yet, O Lord, you are our Father. We are the clay, you are the
potter, we are all the work of your hand." Isaiah 64:8

It will be awesome in years to come to see what the Lord will
accomplish for His kingdom by using you and your family in the
future as He remolds and makes you into His image! Look at what
the Lord has done for His glory, honor and praise!

Nothing is too hard for God,
Charlyne Steinkamp
Rejoice Marriage Ministries, Inc.
Post Office Box 10548
Pompano Beach, FL 33061 USA
http://rejoiceministries.org (Ministry web site)

[Lostforwords]

If you want to change the world you start by changing yourself.

If the LBS is with another person....their focus turns to that relationship as opposed to working on themselves. So for an LBS with the knowledge of the journey, we can make the conscious decision to not partake in another relationship.

The MLC'er is not making a conscious choice....there are underlying issues that cloud judgment. So the bandaid of another relationship is halting the realization of those issues...making their journey longer or worse case.....neverending.

The other issue you mentioned R2.....that is guilt talking. They see you making positive changes they didn't expect. So it had to be because of their behavior...self validating to speak.

[HeartsBlessing]

Good morning, R2

I was reading what BND had posted about the Potter and the Clay when I came in here a few minutes ago; very inspirational, and a good example of how the Lord is always working on us.

I wanted to say as I read above and how much all of this brings back the old feelings for you at times, I admire your courage to allow yourself to experience some of these things again (just to help some of us out). Thank you for that.

It's less painful than you think for me to recall those memories. There comes a time when time truly DOES heal all wounds, and the Lord wrought a healing within me, that went beyond my own understanding.
Without that healing, I could have turned bitter, not just toward my husband, but toward all people in general; as I have suffered much in my lifetime..but learned instead as each healing as occurred, to draw on those experiences to help others.
I could talk about some truly awful and abusive things that happened to me as far back as childhood; but those things don't affect me now, and unless someone brings a problem of that sort to me; it's never thought about. Much has been forgotten over time; and that is the way of healing, when it occurs.
The memories, when they come back are viewed as a "fact", not a feeling; the feelings I do remember, but no longer "feel" them. It's hard to explain that to people who've never experienced this.
Yet, if He had NOT helped me like that; I would be unable to do what I do; the emotional baggage alone would prevent me from being able to empathize with people's pain.
In spite of all that I felt back then, I was STILL able to put it aside, and see past my own pain into other people's hurts.
Through the helping of others, it speeded up my own healing.

I did STILL have to deal and work through, but did that on my own time when not helping other people through theirs.

There are others like me, I have met quite a few remarkable people in my lifetime; and if I didn't know their histories, I would never know the difference when talking to them...they are really special people, and I've learned much from each one I've encountered; and always hope I, too, can shine that kind of a light for others.

We were never meant to remember everything we endured/suffered/went through; the human mind would go into overload if we did. All that should remain is what we learned out of the experience, nothing else when the healing is total and complete.

He has had His hand on me as far back as I can remember; I was raised in church; as a young adult, I backslid hard running fast away for around 7 years. The death of my Dad was what brought me back to Him..and this time it was for good.

I asked Him to give me what He wanted me to have that He knew I could use, because, though, the bible says to ask for what you want, I had NO clue about that; and just simply asked Him to use me.

And He has, many times in so many ways. He's been with me for a long time; yet I never felt I was anyone special.

He's taught me many things, among those was how to relate to people, given me empathy to help give a shoulder to those in time of need.
I'm what's considered a disgustingly cheerful person, even in the face of many trials, and though I get discouraged at times, He is always there to cheer me on; lift me up, accept me for who I am, forgive me for my wrongs, and most of all, He loves me.

He is many things to different people; to me, He's the best friend I've ever had in my life; I trust Him with everything within my heart, soul, family, financial situation.

He's blessed me far beyond measure, and I have often felt I owe Him...but it is like I came to understand; when He died on the cross for me, He made me worthy of all He has to give me.

And it is the same for others. Getting to know Him in a deeper walk has been and continues to be an enriching experience in my life.

Christian does NOT equal doormat, and he was really teaching me this through my husband's MLC...everything I learned and used in this trial with my husband went against what I'd been taught as a child, but the scriptures back these actions up, EVERY one of them.

I never dishonored my husband, but I STOOD up for myself, learned to take care of myself, doing it all without shouting at him or even getting angry with him. I remember attaining the peace that surpasses ALL understanding while within this trial; it seems to be given when you're deep within a long trial that contains many obstacles. When you need it the most; it falls, and it fell on me at one point.

God aided my efforts, but did NOT do it for me; He gave me the tools in the form of resources and people to help me, but again, He did NOT do this for me.
There are certain things that are left for us to do, and we do them under His guidance and direction.

And I've done my share of those things, obeying Him in all things, and even when it doesn't seem to make sense, I do as instructed, knowing He sees the bigger picture; I do not; I trust Him, therefore I go forward with all the confidence in the world; knowing He knows best.

But, He doesn't ALWAYS provide me with instruction, then, I have to make up my mind, knowing He's left things up to me.
I have no wish to do wrong; but trust myself enough to know what's best for me.
If I'm wrong, He'll let me know; through a number of things; people are sent, I may get 'hit' with some directive, or as He often does now; He will speak to me directly.

The person I have become present day is a pretty patient one, though there are times I STILL get frustrated with people, but they never know it, until they are abusive toward me.
I take care of myself, set proper boundaries, and know myself well.
I'm at an age now(I'm 43, and I KNOW that's young to some people, LOL)that I have the attitude of take me as I am, or leave me alone. I will NOT allow people to continue to try and walk all over me or take advantage of me, I will eventually stand up and let them know that it's enough, they've gone too far, and I will remove myself from their presence.
But, I have compassion for the hurting; love for all, an advocate for learning. I give my time to others, as time was given to ME when I needed it.

So, I give back when I can.

I have asked God to please answer me. Is this the right thing for them? For Me?

I as a human being cannot answer that, He has to, but it is within my own experience that God allows us freedom of choice; that was given to ALL men as a gift. He will not tamper with that free will, yet He WILL advise us if we stay open to Him.

All confusion within must be settled, as He is not the author of confusion, also, He will NOT force Himself through that just to speak; as that violates our free will.

We must choose to be open to Him...and that is not easy to do; it is learned, not natural. And it is HARDER than you think to be able to learn to hear a voice within your head that you KNOW is not yours, but yet, it is a voice that is SO comforting, someone you know, but can't seem to put a name to. The Bible says My sheep hear my voice..and it's correct; you WILL know when it's Him.
He's consistent and recognizable; there is also a unique way He reveals Himself to His children that only each individual would also know without a doubt that it's Him.


When He is silent on something, the choice is yours, and He will honor our choices as long as it is not sin or heading down a wrong path He doesn't mean for us to take that would take us out of His Will for our lives.
There is His Will, and His "permissive" Will...a path destined for us overall, and an alternate path that is also acceptable due to whatever choices we make.

When I entered Truckdriver school years ago, I questioned Him as to whether this was acceptable..there were many things I could have done; but chose this; and He blessed it, opening doors for me, and I recognized those doors...I was still learning to see/hear His directives, but this one was an easy one.
And He has blessed my chosen occupation ever since; even to the point of bringing me off the road for a little while to learn the inner workings of a trucking company in order to help me in what I do now on my job; as I work for myself now.
If I hadn't learned what I did, I would have a very hard time dispatching myself on the loads I book for myself now.

If it had not been meant for me, I would NOT have been able to even get in the front door; and I knew that, having learned at that time to look for doors that would either open or close, depending on what He had in mind for me.

If what you're asking for is clearly meant to be, a door will open, and you will see it clearly; if not, look for doors to be "slammed" shut, and NOTHING will open up.

God is one, also in my experience of serving Him, that opens doors that man cannot shut, and shuts doors that man cannot open.

This sounds like a riddle, but I have seen many doors closed, and doors opened; He knows the heart and the need.

I have sometimes have had to "think things out" to understand the way He was opening up; sometimes it was clear as a bell.

He works in mysterious ways, and He knows what is good for each and every one of us. He is loving toward the left behind spouse; and He DOES allow things to happen to the MLC/WAS; in order to make sure they reap what they sow.
He is the God of ALL THINGS, Maker and creator of all...HE is God; we are but dust of the earth.

It always humbles and amazes me that He chooses to look down and keep His Hand on me; and I've seen this same thing in many other people's lives.

Just as He continues to keep His Hand on you, taking care of your and the children; the evidence is there; He's not left you, nor has He forsaken you, R2.

I believe He is attempting to get through, speaking to your heart, but you are having trouble letting Him through...and I cannot instruct you on how to do that..it's something you must learn on your own. All I can say is this: in order to allow Him through, control must be given up, a way is opened within you and He comes in.
I know, it seems to be another cryptic message, but it is the way I understand this.

You will hear me say, as time goes on, "What is God impressing upon you," "What has He told you?" I feel that you will grow in the area of being able to hear what He speaks to your heart.
Gifts are gained out of this trial, as we walk down the path we are on, are obedient to Him, learning to trust Him in ALL things...things are added onto us.
I know this from experience.

The answers are contained with YOU, we just have to find a way to access those. Each person contains the answers to their own individual problems, they just don't know how to get to them, and that requires someone else to help them "sort" through in order to reach a particular answer that is being looked for.

I will pray on this for an answer, as none is forthcoming at the moment, which tells me that He has left this up to you.

You know your situation well, therefore you are able to choose what will be good for you and the children.

These are some thoughts off the top of my head:
The advice given before was and is to not make a decision of this type before you've calmed down, learned to breathe, cleared your head, and taken a good look at your options. That's good advice to take, as once you've come forward, you can never go back to what was.

A move can be unsettling to the children, as well as to you; and you have to look at your economic situation as well to see if a move would upset that.

Also, examine any other motives you may have for this move, and only you would know what they were; I cannot "pick" them out of thin air.

Each person must do what's best or themselves; the decision, ultimately, is up to you.

Will check back in later. Gotta run for now, they've gotten me unloaded here at my delivery point.