The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting different results. I feel that in MLC you have to find a middle ground on contact. Not being there at the beckon call....but also not being completely NC....more a dim. They will come and talk....but you have to be open to them coming to you and talking. The hard part is you will have to bite your tongue and validate and listen. It is hard.....but you can't probe, you can't question...you have to communicate. It is actually quite deep if you let it happen.
Thanks Lost...we really have been more dim since we do have to talk about kids. I just don't don't call him at all unless it is about kids. Now, if I could just put duct tape on my mouth when he is here and as you say, really listen and validate!
M48 H53 M16 T18 S16 D13 SS30 H drops bomb PA/8-30-09 H leaves 12-30-09 D filed by H 2-10 H asks to come home 4-11 Piecing
It takes time to get to that point. If you keep practicing controlling what you say, eventually it becomes a habit. It was so hard for me at first, but now I don't say much about stuff other than the kids and some small talk sometimes.
With the MLCer, you may find that being quiet and listening DOES cause them to open up to you at times. I have found that. It doesn't happen too often with regards to the deep stuff, but every once in awhile I get a peek into what is going on inside of his head.
Do you think that the longer WAS is with the OW, the better the chance of him staying or marrying her? My H has been with OW for about 3 years now...I am not divorced but H has said in the past month that we've reflected long enough and it's time for closure..He also said he deserves a relationship with the kids a much as I do..I have NEVER withheld the kids from him..H hasnt' taken S12 overnight since last July, says he does it out of respect for me because he knows I dont want him at OW's house.. The sad thing is how Long he can go without wanting to see the kids.
Treese
H 49 M 45 D 23, D17, S12 M 25 T 31 01/07 OW H at my door w/proof Bomb ILYBINILWY 06/07 Sep 01/08 headed for the greener grass, Mar08.B#2H has child who is 9 11/08 pos.paternity
Many older children get VERY angry when a MLC'er not only goes into tunnel, but starts acting out of character, doing many things that are the "opposite" of what is normally expected.
The relationship between the grown children children and the MLC'er is between them...doesn't have anything to do with you at all. If you step between, and are seen by the MLC'er, the focus will come back to you as being at fault for coming between him and the children against him, thereby increasing the justification for his actions. Never mind he's wrong for what he's doing.
My son was 15, and a very angry young man. My husband tried to act as if things were not wrong, at least when he was with son; and son did NOT understand what was up with that...all he could see was that I was being mistreated. I don't know for sure if they ever had words on the subject..son never said and I never asked; I learned early on that I was NOT responsible for making sure their relationship was intact. Son was old enough to decide that on his own; and it wouldn't have mattered what I said to my husband..he'd do whatever he wanted to do, when he wanted to do it..and that was that.
This was completely out of my hands, and I let it go.
I had a long talk with son about what was going on, reminding him that no matter what his dad did, he was still son's dad. I gently encouraged him to try and connect back with his dad...but I also reminded him that it did NOT mean that his dad's behavior was right. I also told son that it was up to him; and I would stand behind him whatever he chose.
Quote:
Do you know if this behaviour will slow down the long MLC process as H is severely depressed or have no effect?
I cannot say for sure if it would slow down the process, I didn't see any difference in my husband's progress in the tunnel, though son was on him sometimes for his behavior; and his "getting on him" was more in looks than words, and you KNOW looks can kill..and my husband saw that; was hurt by it more than once. But, amazingly, that didn't stop my husband from still chasing son; always trying to forge a relationship with him.
I also know this: Actions have consequences, and sometimes those consequences come in the form of their own children pulling away. To some it doesn't make any difference, and it hurts some. I think it really depends on the strength of the husband's determination to go their own way, and to what extent the feelings of the children matter to the MLC'er. Sometimes the children can be a catalyst, sometimes not...it's a crap shoot, as MLC always is.
Your daughter is 19 years old, LA..she is of an age to decide how she chooses to react to her dad.
She is very hurt at the moment, and the anger coming out of her is from that hurt. That is why she finds it difficult to control her reaction to him. She's also very frustrated having troubles understanding why this is happening. She thinks, like so many people do, that things are just not supposed to be this way...and she's totally blaming him..and she's correct in that assessment, as he IS the one who's torn the family apart.
All you can do is be there for her, just like you're already doing; and listen to her vent. In the end, it will not matter who did what or who said what; unfortunately, your husband will have the final say as to whether he comes back to you or not.
Better to change what you can change/influence and leave the rest to the Lord to take care of; as He knows what's best.
Remember, as each person is different, every MLC/Transition is different..what works for one may not work for another. Most of the time it is trial and error for ALL involved.
My apologies if I misunderstood what I thought J3B's thread was for and posted there in error.
OP, bless you; you're right. SA, the reason I dragged your post over to this thread; was because I did not wish to disrupt Jack 3 Bean's thread; his contained a particular question..and other questions were hijacking or dragging it off-topic, which can be confusing to the newbies he meant that thread to target.
I was being considerate of Jack...most of the time, I'm a well-ordered person(and I did say most of the time, LOL!), and certain things belong in certain places, even on forums/messageboards.
Quote:
Thank you so much for your answer. I didn't find this bb until about 3 months into my sitch. I truly believe the Lord led me here to learn the lessons I needed to get through this. He brought us all together for a reason.
The Lord works in mysterious ways; the Bible says that "Seek and ye shall find, knock, and it shall be answered." Many things are contained within His Word, but I also believe that He utilizes other tools besides the Bible to help people. Otherwise, I probably wouldn't have shown up in the first place. I agree with your assessement wholeheartedly; I, too, was around 3 to 4 months into my situation when I found this board; and the people here were wonderful to me. I had just been bombed a short while before, and was trying to find answers. It was a strange way I found this place; I was running a search on the internet for help with MLC, and this board popped up..so I came here; feeling like I was supposed to come here. I was nowhere near where I am now, in the present day in growth. I stayed on for awhile after I was on my way, to help others for a time until it was time for me to leave and make my own way. Had NO clue that I would write as much as I did; or contribute all that I contributed to help ease the hurt of others who were in the SAME boat as me. I probably should be in "Piecing" BUT..the Lord instructed me to come back here, and so I did; who am I to question Him? I just follow His lead, where ever it takes me.
The Lord has used me over time, and will continue to do so until the time comes for me to leave again.
Remember, as each person is different, every MLC/Transition is different..what works for one may not work for another. Most of the time it is trial and error for ALL involved.
Hi CW, MLC is a strange situation at best; if OW is involved, most likely he is in Replay. The divorce papers is him thinking the pain will end if he brings the marriage(which HE perceives as a problem) to an end.
It's touch and go when you're attempting to break NC to see where the MLC'er stands. And you might not like the answers you get when you start asking questions; as you end up having to "sort the garbage" as the truth is in what they say. You might also hear a great deal of justification for his actions toward you. NONE of them are true, regardless of how much "truth" you might think you hear in what he spews.
Also, be prepared to hear a great many things that will hurt...that is if you can get him to talk if you ask the questions the DB coach is advising you to ask.
You cannot push him into doing things he doesn't want to do, but it never hurts to invite him to do some things with you and the family.
Keep your expectations to below zero, if he refuses, you won't be disappointed.
At this point in time, you will have to take what you can get as he is firmly holding the reins, but I think he has NO idea of what could transpire if he pushes ahead with the divorce. You'll also have to be prepared to hear he doesn't care about all that if he's that far out in left field.
No matter what you do or what you say, he could just go ahead with all of it. Always be prepared for the worse, and settle for something in the middle.
No matter what he says, don't tell him he's wrong for what he says or how he feels, and don't try to get him to see your point of view; to him that doesn't matter..he is absorbed in what's going on within him.
They have to feel "safe" before they will just come out and state how they feel at the moment. That is why the LBs must be prepared to listen and not judge, never showing anger or irritation..saving that instead for here or for someone they trust. If you're quiet and listen, you'll hear many things you never heard before.
FWIW, OW is a band aid, not a solution to their pain and suffering; and you can't worry about her; she is your husband's problem, don't make her yours.
Last of all, you'll need to focus on yourself, taking your journey to see where YOU made mistakes in your marriage/life together, and work on the necessary changes that need to be made in yourself..never mind where he's at right now.
Once you have your talk with him, you'll know more about where he stands...at least for now.
Then, you'll prepare to wait OW out..how long to wait? Most MLC affairs run their course in two years or even more, depending upon the MLC'er(again!); or possibly the OW, as sometimes SHE will get tired of the MLC'er and the empty promises they make, and break it off. Ideal situation, either way is for one or the other to call it quits.
Some have been known to run longer than that; and some go on to marry their OW. MLC, again, is a crap shoot, a gamble.
Only you can decide if it's worth waiting out, while you're growing and changing.
Hope this will help.
Remember, as each person is different, every MLC/Transition is different..what works for one may not work for another. Most of the time it is trial and error for ALL involved.
Hearts Blessing, I am of the opinion that most people who go into an MLC do not ever come out of it for whatever reason. I base this opinion on what I have seen on the board, especially from the older posters. Hardly scientific proof, but its certainly a trend I see. Your opinion?
Do you think that the longer WAS is with the OW, the better the chance of him staying or marrying her?
That is an unknown answer as things could go either way in that situation. There is a MLC situation I'm observing at the moment where the WAS has been with OW for over 9 years, and is just now making babysteps to start the journey of coming out...his problem is how to get rid of OW..but that will be up to him on how to do that. The outcome is unknown at this time.
Just as the MLC journey has no set time frame, neither does the MLC affair. The decision, such as it is, is totally up to the MLC'er at that point in time. And it has NOTHING to do with the LBS. OW is only a band aid, interfering with the necessary inward journey the MLC'er needs to take to look at the pain within. As long as she is there, he is NOT looking at his pain at all.
What you have to do is decide whether you'll continue to stand or choose to walk away, still taking your own journey to change and wholeness, regardless of what you do. Either way, it's up to you.
Quote:
My H has been with OW for about 3 years now...I am not divorced but H has said in the past month that we've reflected long enough and it's time for closure..He also said he deserves a relationship with the kids a much as I do..I have NEVER withheld the kids from him..H hasnt' taken S12 overnight since last July, says he does it out of respect for me because he knows I dont want him at OW's house.. The sad thing is how Long he can go without wanting to see the kids.
Sounds to me like he is still attempting to justify his actions, and is still blaming his actions on YOU..but that's NOT true. Also, the fact that he is not taking the children, tells me he is making excuses, and is still trying to get out of responsibility; he's in Replay, still yet..as evidenced by the OW, and his "justifications" of his behavior.
How stupid do they really think the LBS is? Oh, so he thinks it's time for "closure" does he? Has he attempted to coerce you into divorcing him? Don't do it if that's the case..make HIM do the heavy lifting; unless you really want to end it. And has he NOT considered that YOU have a part in this decision for "closure" and that you might not want to? How dare he? He just wants this to make it easier on him, so he doesn't feel so guilty. Bah Humbug!
He's crazy! MLC crazy! Of COURSE, he hasn't considered these things..it's ALL about him, never mind you and what YOU have had to suffer. These are his reactions to things that are real concerns to you, and they DON'T make ANY sense at all. I might need to go read your situation, but what I have to say might help someone else.
In "tricking" the LBS into filing, the MLC'er effectively shifts the blame onto the LBS, as they do NOT want to be the "bad guy" in that situation.
God forbid THEY take the blame for anything they do...and they will push as much as they can onto the LBS.
They will try to control the "outcome" the way they think they want it to be..and a divorce, to them is the ending of the pain. OW is, of course, a band aid, only a symptom..not a solution. A relationship born out of deception is destined for failure of the worst kind...but they don't see that...only their need for escape from the pain that is within them...and the LBS cannot touch that pain.
Your heart knows the truth, Treese; don't let him convince you otherwise.
Remember, as each person is different, every MLC/Transition is different..what works for one may not work for another. Most of the time it is trial and error for ALL involved.
SA, the reason I dragged your post over to this thread; was because I did not wish to disrupt Jack 3 Bean's thread; his contained a particular question..and other questions were hijacking or dragging it off-topic, which can be confusing to the newbies he meant that thread to target.