If the problem has always been there, it might be hormones...Did you read the sexless marriage book?
I barely touched my W for 9 of the 11 years, and I promise you I have no hormonal shortage. Worried about more kids, not connecting with her, the sex was never very good (good at most), and frankly I thought she didn't like it that much. I know her self-esteem was a big part of why the sex sucked. Also, because I wasn't connecting well with her, I didn't feel a love for doing it with her. The book, "Improve Your Marriage Without Talking About It" was an eye opener that helped me connect better, making her more able to give it better.
The biggest thing to help the sex for me was reading about the problems we were having (don't laugh - but she was too wet..., etc.) and finding some solutions (time of day - mornings are much more relaxed for me, maybe for her, too). Even more powerful was talking out loud about it in a way that was about me and my needs, not about her. Telling her not that I wanted it, dealing with some embarrasments (like admitting some one-on-one over the years). In my religion, sex is something valued for an emotional connection, so it isn't a taboo topic, but it caught her by surprise to talk about it out loud.
Maybe 180s in this area would be valuable. What have you tried that doesn't work (scheduling sex, etc.). Maybe try something else. Someone here said something about hormonal cremes. Maybe that kind of thing could help.
I know you are ready to move on if this round doesn't work, but is it possible to see the round as not couselling, but gradual change with a timeline? MC can bring up old issues that take time to resolve. In the meantime, your hard work might get you a hard reward (:
My W wanted 4-5 week intervals. I said our M was worth the money and change needs to happen for us both to be happy. I got her to 2 wk intervals but she dropped out. I kept going. My changes opened her eyes, as did beginning the D in Oct. Now, she's opening up. Still, one year from when we began, I know I have a deadline - May. If things aren't working out, I'm moving on. I'm putting my eggs into my basket, not into the hopes of a perfect counselor. A good MC can still not hit all the notes for everyone.
Rememeber Tim, I'm 34 and you've got leagues of experiences I don't have. You stuck it out for years more than I. Read what I say with that in mind...~
What makes you sure that your staying for your kids was worth it? Pretend you had divorced, (I hope you don't, your sitch seems to need sex alot, but I kinda feel you have a real opportunity by doing things a bit differently), you'd likely have remarried in your 40s before menopause and all that stuff. 10 years later, it might be a little more challenging (or easier?) Was her love/your love enough for the last 10 years to satisfy your non-physical needs?
What makes you sure that your staying for your kids was worth it? Pretend you had divorced, (I hope you don't, your sitch seems to need sex alot, but I kinda feel you have a real opportunity by doing things a bit differently), you'd likely have remarried in your 40s before menopause and all that stuff. 10 years later, it might be a little more challenging (or easier?) Was her love/your love enough for the last 10 years to satisfy your non-physical needs?
Can you imagine how many times I've asked myself that? That's the thing that sucks - I'm not even sure anymore why I'm even still here. Part of it was "going dark" for years at a time - just put the R on autopilot, practice avoidance behaviors, just keep on keepin' on. Work at hobbies so the lonliness doesn't get too bad, but, surprise, it's still really lonely. The kids are a joy, and all looking to be very successful and happy, so nothing can take that away. My big fear always has been when they move out, and it's just me and W looking at each other going "Who are you?" I know I do still love her deeply, or at least it feels like that when we do (rarely) connect, but what we've had is just not enough. Not for the long haul (and I know that 30 years looks like "long haul" to most folks, but I'm thinking 60 or more). I also know that we're both still young enough to find happiness with someone else if it should come to that, but that clock is ticking, that ship will sail at some point.
Yes, we've read pretty much all the books (several by MWD, Schnarch, Gottman, McGraw, etc.), and she's tried hormonal creams. She saw an IC back in '04 for a while, but that one was so supportive of her, she made things worse. W came out of that validated and seeing no reason to be more loving towards me - rather I was being too demanding. 3 other C's disagree, but never mind that.
So I'm just hoping this MC can help me (us) clarify things in our mind, see the possibilities, challenge us BOTH to work on ourselves, and hope the sum of all that adds up to a dynamic marriage.
Long haul is a good way to put it. I'm 34, so unless one of us dies early, her gma lived to 98!
I've had those "who are you" fears, too. The fact that you've made it till now shows a lot of courage. Yes, your choice of avoidance and 'going dark' didn't seem to be helpful, but you survived. I can't help but wonder if that could have been enough so you could talk to her, listen to her, and make her feel like a respected & cared for person. For me, I've already spend 1 of my 11 years living somewhat apart from her, and the farther apart I got, the less I was able to be patient, kind, etc. to her.
My W felt the IC was on my side more than hers. The counselor did acknoweldge a couple times that she had an easier time understanding my perspective because of a shared culture. I don' think that cut any of the feeling of the MC being a waste of time from her.
It is good to hear that you want to be challenged by your MC, too. There's got to be something that she can notice you might not notice on your own, or her by herself.
Have a great session...maybe it will lead to some "hanky panky"...?
Have a great session...maybe it will lead to some "hanky panky"...?
Actually, the session was very disappointing, for both of us. MC spent most of the session talking, and/or trying to draw W out about her FOO stuff. Didn't even ask for a progress report, "Gee, it's been 3 weeks. How are you kids getting along? Anything significant happen since we last met?" Nothing like that. Thing is, on the way home after the session, W and I started talking about how we were both feeling let down, and we ended up having a great convo about the very topics I had wanted to cover in session. But no, no hanky-panky that night. HOWEVER... last night was AMAZING!! Another evening when all the kids were out, and we had an epic LM session - HOT!! The thing is, we ML 3 times last year (total), and the sex was really crappy. Now, in the past 2 weeks, we've ML twice, and it's the best sex I've ever had - seriously! Well, maybe not the BEST, but way up there. W is not just "there", she's an active participant, and acting like the hot momma I always knew she was (but she's rarely shown me). If we can keep up 2X/mo, that'll be a 1600% increase over last year (or in fact, the last few years!). So, suffice to say that while I know we still have lots to work on, I'm feeling pretty optimistic that we can do so effectively.
That's awesome, Tim! It is weird how ML can be so different when all the stage is set right. Did you think your kids being away was the main factor, or the connection you made after the bad MC, or something else? Was it a self-esteem thing for her (did you complement her in some way like "hot momma" that maybe turned her on)
To me, I found that when I or my W let out some tough emotions on any topic, we connect better physically. Maybe there is something you can figure out that got the mood and moment to match.
By the way, Tim, consider checking out Retrouvaille. Now that I've gone (and another poster, TBL), we've both found some real positives I wouldn't have expected. The marriage encounter may have some overlap, but the focus of Retrouv is when a couple is separated or divorcing. That changes things a lot. Just hearing from people that are a similar boat (presenters, participants keep it all private) is helpful. The method is probably very different because these marriages, like yours, is in jeapordy.
What could it hurt? It is on the weekend, there's a minimum cost but the rest is a requested donation. Getting agreement might be an issue, but your kids are a tool that might convince your W to try it out.
They are, indeed. I'll post more later, but W and I have been seeing the MC every 2 weeks for a while now, and things are definitely looking up. Not totally resolved by a long-shot, but better. We've ML very passionately 3 times now this year, and also a couple of attempts, so not so SS anymore, which is good. We're also working to resolve some of our other issues, such as having 2 adult and 1 near-adult kids living at home still. Haven't felt like screaming in a while now...
