Just want my H back

[25yearsmlc]

h3,

You are on track. At the lunch, be your best self. You can reveal that although you accept his regrettable choice, you "Get it"...he feels the need to be single. Okay. He's single. So are you. It was nice while it lasted and maybe he really will be happier someday. Great, good to learn that now. All you know is you will be happier. Why? b/c you have to be. B/C you had NO Choice. HE DID. He gets to have all the 2nd thoughts and all the self doubt. You won't. You coped with the cards you were dealt, and he's stuck with the fact that he dealt them.

Enjoy the meal, try to have a laugh or two and be the one to leave first.

If there comes a time when your h wants more of you, he'll know how to reach you. Let him. Until if and when that happens, keep on doing what you're doing. WHich is moving on. GAL, etc. Let him be the one to ponder later, by himself. When you talk about your future, make it a good one. It will be. WIth or without him...that's not for you to worry about, but it is for him. Make sense?

And Try not to let too much ride on this meal. It's not goodbye, it's a meal before you move onto a new chapter. Not the last chapter, just the next one...enjoy it. Let him see you in the best light, which is a happy one.Stay calm.

good luck!
j-

[hhh]

Dear Friends,
H and I had lunch together yesterday. It was one of the best interactions we've had for the past year...even as we talk about moving towards D. I projected my best self and was calm, confident, upbeat, joking. For the most part it went very well. He did make a few snarky comments but I did not react, let them slide. Rest of the time he was pretty friendly and neutral, we just caught up about life, work, friends, family. He opened up that he is really not loving his job so much and working really hard, weekends included. Having some issues w his family too. We asked each other if we were dating other people and said we'd both gone on dates but nothing serious. He is not seeing anyone, said no time given his work schedule. I believe this to be true (confirmed by a mutual friend I know as well).

Then I came out and told him about my move to CA, transfering out there, excited to be in that env't etc. This prompted the 'where do we go from here'/'filing' conversation. We both handled this extremely amicably, and actually glad we did in person. It was not emotional, more business-like but relatively friendly (if that can be said?) I came out and asked him about tuition reimbursement. Without hesitation he said that is a very reasonable request and he has no problem paying me back, he had intended to.

I told him I'd met w a L to educate myself on the process, but had not yet hired one (the L suggested saying this, to see how H would respond about how to handle/wanting anything/tuition $). We looked over the financial forms we needed to fill out, and what we each knew about the process. Agreed we didn't want anything from each other, just each walk away with what was each ours (this is what L advised best outcome anyway, my savings, his debt). We agreed we'd rather save money on L fees and he'll be true to his word about tuition reimbursement. I do feel this is the best and most fair possible outcome.

At one point we even held hands and said how much we each cared about each other, how much we we will always mean to one another. We both teared up a bit at one point...but overall the interaction was not charged w emotion. I did no pleading or begging. He said this is what he's wanted all along, to be able to sit down with me and get the elephant out of the corner (he said if we didn't have this convo over lunch he would have just emailed me about it this weekend), and to be able to be friends without feeling like I am trying to convince him to work on M. I reiterated once that I would have of course preferred to give our M another shot, but had come to terms (a la Dobson) with fact that I have to let him go. He said that is what is best for both of us...he doesn't want to go back to the way we were. He said he wants to help me with my move and spend some time as friends before I leave. Said once we get D over with, he'd hope that we can have a friendship/civil relationship.

So Wow. How do I feel? We had a huge embrace upon leaving and he texted each other that we really enjoyed lunch and he said 'so great to see you' followed by a few small jokes about football (being that I am totally clueless on the sport and he got a chuckle out of that).

I felt a warmness, a tenderness towards him. Being friendly and having him agree to tuition without any issue has helped me release the anger and bitterness. This is how I feel: knowing that I am not getting what I've really wanted - my H back - I feel like this is the BEST alternative outcome. I feel like our legal/financial arrangement was very just and fair, and I feel like we had a positive exchange overall. I feel like I projected my best self to him. He said few times how he just really wants to see me happy but didn't think we were right for each other. Of course that still makes me sad and there is a bit of that lingering heartbreak (which will lessen in time i hope), but there was no fighting, no tension, and LESS awkwardness once we DID address the filing stuff.

I don't feel like I was a doormat in any way and I feel like he respected me. Do I get chance for reconcil? No, HIGHLY unlikely at this point. So if D is the outcome we are going towards inevitably, I'd rather handle it as collaboratively as possible, which we both agreed we would do. It was weird how non-emotional we were about the whole process, even joking about how we can't get the purple forms mixed up w the yellow forms, and he said 'ask your family friend about this...do we need to fill this out?' He wants this to be a team sport, almost..sounds silly but that's how we tried to approach it yesterday.

I feel funny a little..happy and slightly numb at the same time. I feel a compassion for him. There was never an A during M together so we didn't leave on those circumstances, just a build-up of really bad fighting the year before he left. He acted out a lot during our separation, and I acted out at times during our M. I've learned a lot from this experience, and yes of course I'd still love chance w H, but he's not there and I think he still has some issues and growth he's sorting through himself - he seemed a bit more honest and humbled, not so much the cocky/arrogant person he was in the early stages of our separation.

So I wake up thinking 2 possible scenarios:
1. do we proceed file jointly and keep the positive interactions we've had more recently. I keep working on myself and move on and just let things proceed down this path. When I did finally accept this and he saw it in me - his behavior towards me changed dramatically, he felt more at ease and like his 'old self'. I am going along w what he wants, agreeing to the D (and probably DB advice?). It was a Different approach - agreeing, I guess - and he responded most positively to this 'different' approach (my not pursuing or pushing reconcil in any way).

or 2. still hold on to fact that I never wanted divorce but know I can't stop him, and let him file. This would drag things out and potentially turn contentious. In some ways it's acting in accord with what I want (which is not D), but it's also resisting and might unravel the friendship we seem to be building back in some capacity.

I've accepted where I am today and the reality of the situation. And I'm committed to keep healing and moving forward. Sometimes I feel confused with a) do what's most DB'ish, even if it feels counterintuive, and b) do what's best for me. 2 above seems like it might be best for me b/c I never wanted this D, but 1. seems more DBish and actually could be what's best b/c it feels good to maintain a friendship and I'm letting him know i'm letting him go..I am going along w things. Does this make sense? Trying to do what's best for me does not feel like it's best for me...but it's probably the best thing to do?

So all in all, things went well. We got it out of the way. He wants to spend some time together as friends before I leave. We were kind and joking and accepting of each other and the situation and both felt the most natural around each other than we have all year (this he told me as we parted ways) That to me is a success. It is not seeming to save my M in any way unfortunately, but it feels better than where we've been before.

After I did not go home and cry. I went and got a mani/pedi to treat myself and stopped by church. I came home and talked to some friends on the phone, and retired early. It still feels weird, but this is where I am. Peace to all.
-hhh

[25yearsmlc]

go with number 1 in mho. Why? B/c you can still get back together later and it's more likely than if you drag it out and change what is relatively warm and rather touching now, into a fight or another round of pursuit. Why on earth do that?

Nothing is irrevocable. I'd accept that a div is likely. So now, the goal is two fold: one, you'd like a remarriage/reconciliation post div. The chance of that is small ==but it happens, and my family is proof of that. 2 relatives remarried years after they divorced. It's much more likely to occur with option #1. (He won't be trapped into staying M to you, so #2 just eliminates the chance for a remarriage).

SECOND, you'd like as a second choice, a good R with him. Also much easier with option #1 and impossible with #2.

Seems clear to me. Congrats on having a good lunch. Except for him having a total 180, you got the best possible outcome in mho.

Again, congrats.
j-

[25yearsmlc]

number 1 is what is best for you and what is DBish, imho. Guess that's what I'm saying. I don't see how "#2 is best for you" ???....it sets you up. It's more of the same stuff that didn't work before and won't now, esp after he TOLD you this R is what he wanted the whole time. NO pressure or pursuit and no dragging your feet to get your way. He wants out. Let him out.

Let him reflect on the NEW you, and not have you backslide...please....don't. With the new you, who knows? He may want you to stick around, he may be scratching his head now, but if you start pursuing he won't believe you changed at all; it was merely a tactic. Was it?

Just my .02

j-

[hhh]

Thanks 25! I do feel really good about the lunch and how it was handled..and yes I think #1 is probably the route to go. I was pondering #2 a little after re-reading my whole stich from start to finish, about how I never wanted this D in first place and some past advice about let him file, just respond as needed.

But if this is the outcome anyway, #1 seems best approach and a way to end this limbo and end amicably. #2 didn't seem like pursuit, but a way of 'standing my ground' I think some of the DB advice just gets confusing to me, apologies if I have misunderstood.

I'm confused about the last sentence in your post above about pursuing and being a tactic? Are you referring to anything re: the lunch or more what to do going forward (and not backsliding, ie keep letting him go)? Thanks so much!

[25yearsmlc]

I'm saying that you are letting him go (you have NO choice anyhow but may as well appear to be making a choice, you know?) and that if you start dragging your feet now it'll appear as if you were merely "acting" nice and accepting to lull him back, as a tactic, rather than a real change on your end.

The underlying idea is that you want to plant seeds in him that make him think, over time and down the road (to be realistic it won't happen today or tomorrow unless your moving triggers something in him, but even so, that would not change my advice) SO,

you want to plant the seeds that say you are a diff woman than you were, that M to you now would be better, that you both could get past the past to build on a future (which dragging your feet will also undermine) and therefore, simply accepting the inevitable thing over which you have no real control anyhow, is a good plan and a way to appear dignified and graceful and NOT argumentative, which was one of his perceptions about the way you two related. Your agreeability undermines his negative data and does NOT hurt you legally, in fact it sounds as if he's being reasonable and "fair"....(when I say "fair" i mean, given the givens).

Hope this helps. I think you did VERY WELL H3, really. And you will be one of those women who either reconciles with her ex h, or finds a new good man AFTER she learns to feel pretty darn good about her own life and self on her own.

A broken heart sucks. It really does. But in the grand scheme of things, I mean globally, it's not that big a deal. Not trying to minimize your pain or my own from the past. But one day when I was in the hospital pregnant, I was looking at the moon wallowing in self pity and worry, even though I knew the baby would likely be fine. I thought suddenly, "wow, there must be a million other women pregnant right now looking at that same moon" and I began to imagine what their lives were like..."are their h's coming home or are they even alive? Do they have "homes"? Or huts? Do they have medical care, or will they give birth and hope the village midwife comes around? Will THIS baby be healthy enough to live? Is anyone from the next village going to hack off limbs b/c she belongs to the wrong tribe?
Does she have electricty, or food in her electric refrigerator, or know how long it will last?

I have food, shelter, electricity and will have all of them tomorrow and the next day too. No one is trying to take my son away to join a warlord's gang, no one is forcing me or my d to wear covers over our faces or have a male chaperone with us at all times....we can study or work where we get hired or invited to attend...."

In the grand scheme of things, I realized I was SO lucky to be born in the time and nation, and that my problems were really pretty small. What if i were to meet another woman over in one of those difficult places and told her I was sad about ...whatever....My h's MLC, or the "hassle of medical care" and that my car was not working as well b/c the rattle was still there....I felt foolish and grateful all at once. My point? Well I think you get this...

You are becoming a success story. DBing is not soley focussed on breaking up divorces; it's also about surviving them and even thriving. I believe you are one of those women who will fit into one or more of these groups and for that, and the way you picked yourself up, dusted yourself off and carried on, you deserve admiration. Well done.

j-

[hhh]

Thanks 25! I agree that I need to accept this reality of where he is, and chose to let go and detach every day. I am moving along toward that place, trying as much as I can. Funny thing, my uncle called randomly about an hr before mtg H -he'd be pressing me to go for L consult too- he's been so disgusted by H's behavior across this past yr and has been pressing me to move on towards D, that H was in no shape to be good H at this stage, etc. It was a little bit of a boost/reality check as I went in to meet w H and thinking of moving on..and then when H made a few snarky comments (like he used to) it definitely was a turn off..and in my head i heard: 'do I want this?'

So there are moments when I am turned off by him...but I think more and more I'm just ready to get out of this limbo state, off this roller coaster, and move on. I don't want to operate out of fear anymore.

[hhh]

Hi all,

Went to IC today – he said I’m light years ahead of where I was last Spring, which was encouraging to hear…that I really accept the reality of the situation more and more. Truly, I think I HAVE to. Of course I would have preferred reconcil, but that’s not in the cards, and I’ve really let go in many ways. It will be an everyday practice/commitment, but I feel this way as well. We talked about our exchange on Sat, and he thought I handled everything very well. When H reverts to some of his old ways/patterns (the snarky comments) it’s not about me, it’s about him and his issues and things he probably still needs to work through.

Which brings me to the idea of respect and posts last wk. There are a lot of ideas around here about boundaries, standing up for yourself, and yet also keeping interactions calm/smooth w WAS.

Talia (and others) – we exchanged posts on respect the other wk. Apologies if I took this personally when you said H did not respect me, but I do not think there is much I have done across the past few months that would make him disrespect me (at least not caused by my outright actions or behavior towards him). But welcome your thoughts. There is the notion of the ‘WAS fog’ in which they act in a manner that is disrespectful – of their own accord – and then another notion of LBS behaving in a way that would let them be disrespected. I’ve kind of seen him in the fog mode lately, and so what he does/does not do really doesn’t get to me so much anymore.

For ex, H has a bad temper, bordering on the physical at times. This came out w his old GF as well (physical fights). I believe this has more to do with him and something he needs to work on, than me eliciting this response from him.

My expectations are just lower from him, so if he doesn’t call me back it doesn’t get to me b/c I don’t expect him too. Of course I want him to respect me, and be able to stand up for myself in a way that elicits that, without inciting negativity or further fighting from him. How do you suggest I best do that at this juncture? One on hand there is the argument of ‘believe nothing what they say’ ‘water off a ducks back…’ and on the other hand call them out when they are being rude. It seems a little like conflicting advice although I know it must not be – it’s just striking that balance, no? Our exchanges have been very amicable lately, and I would like to keep that up regardless of the outcome…but also keep acting in a way, for MYself, that elicits respect from him. (and IC said, if it does not when you act in way best way for you, than its more his still lingering anger/issues than anything to do w me).

For instance we saw each other and he made a few slightly rude comments (‘well you kept all the tax $ last year”) or rolling his eyes couple times when I interrupt him by mistake. Not big things. The old me would have reacted and in the moment I did not, which helped keep our exchanges more quite pleasant (similar to 25’s suggestion awhile back about not letting unnecessary conflict escalate). At one point I did say, “yes, but I paid them all the previous years” – ie standing up for myself – but then he returns w another snarky comment. So that is not a cycle to continue. When I did not act in reacting mode with him, it was much more pleasant. And as I was driving home I was thinking about the changes I’ve made, and while he acted MUCH more positively to my ‘letting go’, he still reverted to some behaviors himself which made me think that no, it’s not all me, and he’s done very little work himself.

I was re-reading Robx posts about the kind of man he was before his S. During much of our M, my H was like that - he was a doormat. He would always give in to me, let me decide everything, do what I wanted. Over time I did respect him less (and I got tired of wearing the pants all the time…I wanted him to step up to the plate; its a dynamic we both contributed to). He got tired of playing that role and I think liked the new sense of control he had post-separation. So it’s a balance in the roles we play with each other these days. Yes I want to stand up for myself, but I’m not going to be 100% the kind of woman I was in my M… I’m softer and more open, while still remaining authentically who I am (and I liked who I am more these days). I've learned some good lessons. At the same time, he had his own issues he brought to the table, and I still see them played out in our current interactions.

IC thought the letting small comments go on Sat was wise and non-reactionary (and it really didn’t get under my skin when he was slightly difficult..those are his issues). I understand that you might say: ‘well you’ve put up with him walking out on you and not wanting to work out M, etc” but I think all of us go through that in the early stages, we want to save our M’s, we want to address issues within ourselves (and acknowledge what may have made them leave) …and when we hit the point where we give up and move on, is very personal. I am just about there, if not already so. I ask/reposition the ‘respect’ question b/c I want to handle this process we are now in in the best possible way. I want to stand my ground but as IC said, you can’t ‘blanket apply’ that in all situations…sometimes you let things go and realize they are not about you. That’s what I’ve done w H. So perhaps I’m not 100% sure why you think he may not respect me? Or if so, what can I do to encourage his respect throughout this process and ensure I am acting in MY best interest at this time?

Kindly, and peace
-hhh

[talia]

HI H,
I'm glad counseling went well!! Sounds like you are totally on track.

The respect comment seems to be bugging you. I will have to go back and look - but I think that was during your obsession with retrovaille???? I hope I'm not mixing people up If so....
Your posts on here seemed to tell us you were obsessed with getting him to go - even though he was obsessed with getting you to leave it alone. That's pursuing and breeds dis-respect. Hence the comment. That comment was directly related to where you were at that time - you've come a ways since then...

I don't see how he CAN'T respect you after Sat!! Clearly you handled that well and he noticed. Snarky comments are what you get when they don't know how to react...

As long as you stand up for yourself where needed - the tax thing is a great example - you should be fine. You are right - he clearly hasn't worked on himself and most of those things are totally his problem. You move on with your life and leave him to regret - you know he will eventually!!

I think what you did wrong in the marriage is irrelevant at this point. You need to treat him however the NEW YOU would want to treat a "friend". Stop trying to treat him however the opposite of old you would treat him. Just be NEW YOU - in all your glory - he doesn't deserve any more thought that that...


Hope that helps....

T

[25yearsmlc]

yes H, what Talia said. Enough about the past you...really you are microscoping yourself, which he is not doing at all. You are spending so much time and energy on him, I have to wonder what your life will be like when you aren't thinking about him all the time. It'll be BETTER, that's what.

If he wanted to be M to you right now and simply pick up where he left off, would you? I hope not, b/c he's self absorbed and...well...snarky, and you are right, he sounds as if he's done NO work on himself.

Who cares why you all broke up now? For one thing, you put him thru all that schooling so how is it that HE was the "doormat"? What?

Regardless, You are not the same woman, so you won't have a repeat of your experience. He will. And he broke your heart. He should be tons more gracious, but he's not. I think you're a bit backsliding in that you are staring at these interactions as if they'll make a huge diff, and they most likely won't. Remember that you won't utter ONE sentence that makes ALL the difference....Really, if you want him to recall you well, or at least as well as possible, then just do your best and leave the rest....you know?
j-
Take care, you've done well.