Can any good come out of giving W some "space"

[brknheart]

One other thing. I told her from the beginning that I will be there for her until the papers are signed. She knows that I never wanted a D. Some books recommended that you agree with them and say "you are right, we should get a D". Should that be my way of thinking now, "act" like I dont care anymore? I didnt give her any fuss yesterday, just "ok".

See, I cant stop dwelling on it... Its like an infection that gets better, then flares up again...

SITCH SUMMARY: 01/20/2010
To sum up my sitch, W moved out 4 mths ago said she wants a D, I tried to get her back for 1.5 mths, went dark for 1.5 mths, wife came over to talk early Dec, we started doing things together and spent the night at her place several times, wife felt like things were going to fast/smothered she wanted to take it slow, wife backed off and said she couldnt do this, 2 days later wife said she didnt want a D right now and put things on hold, she wants to move back in the house and I move out so she can have space and get a clear mind in a comfortable environment, this was the only thing she could give me other than D, i moved out 4 weeks ago, we txt and talked a couple of days the first week, had a talk on the second week that upset her because we started talking R talk, again. She said she didnt want to talk unless it was business (bills, etc). We didnt talk for 2 weeks until yesterday when I came back from vacation. She asked about paying a bill then asked when I could move my things out of the house. I asked if she wanted a D, she said yes. I said ok. I didnt understand what last month was about, asked her. She said she thought we could work on things. I asked what made her change her mind, she didnt know, would have to get back with me.

[dday101798]

Well, I've said what I need to for now.

Let her be. In your summary you say she already felt smothered once.

Go about your business and QUIT being readily available for her. Give her a dose of the reality she thinks she wants. Don't answer the phone. Don't return calls or messages. If it's something that must absolutely be discussed, stall, wait it out a while, then return the call.

Maybe set up a time to remove your items at a time she won't be there.

The more away time the better.

In reading your summary, I think you extended the begging and pleading stage for too long. She knows D is not what you want and she will play upon that til the bitter end.

No, it isn't easy to stop dwelling on it, but you have to.

If being at her sister's gets uncomfortable, ie all she'll talk about is W, respectfuly ask that you not discuss it. If it continues, something came up and you gotta go.

Seperate yourself as far as possible and go about your own business.

Once your ship has set sail, and left behind your W's, just sitting there in the middle of the sea with no navigation, she'll decide which way to go.

[brknheart]

Thanks for the comments dday101798.

Her sister only talks about my W if I talk about it. She has been a big support for me thru this whole ordeal.

Looks like my W will have to learn the hard way. Before I moved out, I told her she wouldn't get full effect of being alone until we get a D and im really gone. She took that as a threat, I said its the truth.

Regarding me begging/pleading to long, I dont want to dwell on that. I question myself "if I did xxx differently". Truth is, I dont think anything would have made a difference.

[Wholeagain]

brknheart

Glad you had fun on your vacation. Sorry to hear about your W's flip-flopping. That's what WAS's do, so nothing has really changed. You'll have some of your own emotional flip-flopping: dropping the rope for real, than wanting your W back. Be prepared for that.

DB tools still apply: detaching, going dark, GAL, 180's.

I "oked to D", went NC for a month, had to see him when picking up my car. After that he initiated contact, so it worked to peak his interest.

In your sitch you haven't maintained NC for long periods of time. What was the longest time (no phone, no texts), 2 weeks? Going NC would be #1 180 for you. You can say you agree you both need space and keep NC from then on.

Regarding moving things, decide what is better for you and arrange it. My guess would be she won't let you in for a week, because then you can stay and she won't have a right to kick you out.

[brknheart]

brknheart

Glad you had fun on your vacation. Sorry to hear about your W's flip-flopping. That's what WAS's do, so nothing has really changed. You'll have some of your own emotional flip-flopping: dropping the rope for real, than wanting your W back. Be prepared for that.

DB tools still apply: detaching, going dark, GAL, 180's.

I "oked to D", went NC for a month, had to see him when picking up my car. After that he initiated contact, so it worked to peak his interest.

In your sitch you haven't maintained NC for long periods of time. What was the longest time (no phone, no texts), 2 weeks? Going NC would be #1 180 for you. You can say you agree you both need space and keep NC from then on.

Regarding moving things, decide what is better for you and arrange it. My guess would be she won't let you in for a week, because then you can stay and she won't have a right to kick you out.

Thanks Wholeagain. I went NC (dark) for 1.5 mths before she contacted me again to "talk". See my sitch summary in my sig.

At this point Im not sure what else I can do but go on. Once I move my stuff out, the next thing will be to sign the papers. This will happen within the next 2 weeks. You are right, I feel like dropping the rope for real but then in the morning I know I will want her back. I oked the D when I went NC back in mid-Oct. Now I oked the D when talking to her yesterday. She said she wants to talk in a few days when I thought things over... I may just txt her.

[brknheart]

To add to my above post:

March 1st will be 6 mths separated, so that will be the legal date we can divorce. I talked to the mediator and they said I can sign the papers ahead of time and they will file them, but the D wont be active until 3/1. Im hoping I can do my communications with her thru email or txt and the next time I see her will be at the mediator.

Regarding WAS flip/flopping, I dont feel I can do this anymore. Its emotional abuse. In her eyes, I am the worst thing that happen to her in her life. I dont know what the think anymore because I feel she is playing another game right now. If you read some of my post from back in Oct/Nov, Im sure I said "its over, we are done, she is never coming back". I already started working on documents today for the mediator, I forwarded my mail to my temp address, and I started looking for a job out of state. I haven't seen my pets in over a mth, which are essentially my kids. I plan on getting the 2 cats I am taking with the D this weekend. That should make me feel a bit better I am trying to get it in my head that this is an opportunity to start a new life, new job, new city, new friends, new girlfriend(s) and hopefully new wife in the future. I have tons of support from my family and friends, telling me I don't deserve this, that I am a good guy, I will get pass this, and I will thank her for this in a year. It still saddens me that my W could do this, how she has been so cold hearted, especially doing everything I did FOR HER the past 2 mths. Unless her friends are blind, they saw that I tried to make things work. They saw me at her graduation and her grad party, which I didnt plan on going to pre-Dec flip/flop. I was there as her husband. Was it all part of her master plan? I will never know. I want to believe that deep down inside of her, she still cares about me, at least as a person, but she hasnt shown this one bit. Like dday101798, once I am gone and the ship has sailed, my W will be stranded on an island realizing she missed the boat. By then it sadly will be to late...

[Wholeagain]

Can you sign a separation agreement and not file for D? Usually you don't have to file for D unless you want to litigate.

You are getting your cats back, lucky you. I have one cat staying with me, and another is staying with H.

"She said she wants to talk in a few days when I thought things over... "

What does she want to talk about?

Me thinks you need to detach more. Have you read any of Coach's threads? Threads in "Piecing" on how to be your WAS's friend?

You are still talking, you's W's flip-flopping, no OM. Have your read "Magic of making up"? The main scenario there is to ok the break up, but stay or become friends with x and go from friendship back to R. Most sitches on this board are too complicated to apply this strategy as prescribed, but you have a good chance for it to work. Maybe you could try this before you follow through with your plans to move to another city?

On another note, your W saw your enthusiasm every time she had second thoughts, so now she knows she can have you whenever she wants to. dday has some good suggestions.

[brknheart]

Let her be. In your summary you say she already felt smothered once.

Go about your business and QUIT being readily available for her. Give her a dose of the reality she thinks she wants. Don't answer the phone. Don't return calls or messages. If it's something that must absolutely be discussed, stall, wait it out a while, then return the call.

Yes, she said she felt smothered when we started hanging out for the 2-3 weeks in December.

I havent been readily available for her in the past month. I live 2 hours away and we only talked for maybe 5-10 minutes a handful of times. I havent seen her in a month, no talk besides Tuesday in over 2.5 weeks. I gave her the space, what she wanted, I guess she felt comfortable not having me in the house or in her life.

I woke up this morning thinking about her and wanting her. I told myself this was the last time I could do this, have her say "its over". I know its normal. I thought about txting her to see if she thought of an answer to my question, why she felt we couldn't work on the M last month, that would only be me pursuing her again...

Can you sign a separation agreement and not file for D? Usually you don't have to file for D unless you want to litigate.

She wants a D, the separation agreement and other documents are done at the same time. She didnt even file for D, the mediator said it can be done all at the same time. Yes we could just do the sep agreement, but that would be me trying to stall the D, how would that look to her? Me being needy, desperate.

"She said she wants to talk in a few days when I thought things over... "

What does she want to talk about?

I think she didnt want to start breaking down, which would make her feel bad (I guess). So she wanted me to cool off for a couple of days (I guess) then talk about the plan of moving, separating property, and the mediator.

Me thinks you need to detach more. Have you read any of Coach's threads? Threads in "Piecing" on how to be your WAS's friend?

My W doesnt even want to be my friend. I tried talking to her before New Years about her new job, the pets, etc. She said "We arent friends, we are married and seperated." I asked when could we talk, just chit chat as friends. She said "Ill let you know." That was late last month. When we talked on Tuesday, she said she knew she didnt want to work on the M 2 weeks ago.

You are still talking, you's W's flip-flopping, no OM. Have your read "Magic of making up"? The main scenario there is to ok the break up, but stay or become friends with x and go from friendship back to R. Most sitches on this board are too complicated to apply this strategy as prescribed, but you have a good chance for it to work. Maybe you could try this before you follow through with your plans to move to another city?

I talked to her about this last month, that I wanted to just be friends, get to know each other again, I would live in an apartment in the same town. She didnt want this. She said it would be to easy for us to see each other, thats why she wanted me to move out of town. It sounds warped, I know, but I gave her what she wanted. A week later I said I saw a job oppourtunity in the town we live in, she got mad, didnt want me there and said if I did stay we wouldnt see each other.

On another note, your W saw your enthusiasm every time she had second thoughts, so now she knows she can have you whenever she wants to. dday has some good suggestions.

Yes, of course I was happy, maybe to happy? She loved it though. I remember telling her how much I loved her, she would say "tell me more" in a flirty kind of way. Now that I think about it, it makes me sick, since she is the complete opposite. She acts as though im scum, that Im the one that broke her heart... I only said the love word 2 or 3 times, didnt want her to feel pressured.


So what choice do I have. Im expecting a call from her any day now. I cant plead or beg, she wants a D (again), the 6 mths are coming close to and end. Do I try to reason with her again? Do I question why she didnt want to work on our M, what made her decided? I am driving myself nuts, I need a job, I need to go on with my life, with or without her... Since the beginning, I wanted it to be with her.

[Wholeagain]

I don't have time right now to write everything, I'll get back to you later. But what I want to tell you right now:

"she wants a D (again)"
Nothing's changed. Until you reconcile it's safe to say that's what she wants. Don't argue about it. Don't try to convince her to stay and work on M. For as long as you keep doing it, you are stuck at the stage 1.

You need to accept your current situation, only then you can get somewhere.

"Im expecting a call from her any day now."
Stop waiting for her. If she calls you today, don't answer.

[brknheart]

Update:

So, I woke up depressed again today (typical). I felt like seeing my pets, so I headed to my house 2 hours away. My W and I already agreed on who gets what, property and pets. I went to pick up a few other things, since I dont plan on moving out until next weekend. I gathered my things and the 2 cats, txted her that I was at the house to get some things and the cats. She freaked. Why did I txt her? Because I wanted to give her at least a heads up. She txt back saying no, can I wait. I said wait for what. She called, crying saying that she cant believe I can be so cold and take the cats without her saying goodbye. I have to admit, I felt guilty about it but at the same time she has been ice cold to me for the past 4 mths. She asked if I could wait till she gets off of work. I didnt even say anything until she started screaming that things can get dirty, we can get lawyers, take all the money, etc. She hung up. Next txt said that she knows I want to be mean to her and there was nothing she could do about it. Next she said she was on her way.

When she arrived, she was crying. Couldnt believe I could do such a thing. (Me, Mr Nice guy for the past 4 mths) She was also upset that I came to the house without her knowing. I told her this was my house also and I have every right to be here. We started talking about the D, when I was going to move, went over the separation agreement again, etc. She calmed down by this point. I said I already started to right up the documents for the mediator and asked her to email me the things I needed from her. I was stern and assertive the entire time, no pleading or begging. I did ask her for an answer to my question the other day, why didnt see feel we could work on things last month. She said because she didnt love me anymore, cant love me again, and that whenever she thinks about us together she thinks about the 11 years of unhappiness. She also said she doesnt have it in her to try to make it work, to much time would have to be invested and would rather start with a clean slate on life. I didnt argue, said ok. She asked about my vacation, I told her how much fun I had and how much I liked the city. Its one of the places Im thinking about moving. We chit chatted about some other non R things. She started asking me how to do different things that I usually do, even asked me if I could right instructions for her. I laughed, said its not my job anymore, she would have to figure it out. I made plans to move my stuff, asked her not to be there. I also said I dont want to see her until we meet with the mediator. Whatever we need to do, email or txt.

Something weird happen today. I felt different, almost like I dont love/care for her like I did a week ago. I know I will most likely feel different tomorrow, but I think I may have had some closer today. At least I had some questions answered. I am accepting the fact that it is over and that the W I married doesnt exist anymore. I thought this way in Nov when I started detaching, it helped. She made a comment that I would be M again in a year, I laughed. I needed to do a few more things before I left, so I asked her to leave. She needed me out the house in 30 min, I took another hour or so...

So I feel better right now. On the way home I thought about my future, the possibilities. Did I do wrong today? I think not. I was tired of being Mr nice guy. I need to start thinking about myself. I started to make a plan for the next 2 weeks, meet with friends, join a gym, work on the documents for the mediator.

In the end though, it all comes down to the signing of the papers. I told her months ago that nothing is final until the papers are signed. She wants the D ASAP, wants to get it over, so ive accepted that it is truly over...