Do you have a spare room in the house? I don't know if I would leave kitti, when you do you give up all rights to a lot of things. Bunk in with one of the kids if you have to!
Kitti - I agree with Deb - I would not move out either. Just be there for him as a friend. It may take some time but he will see that your friendship and love is for real and not fake. JM2CW
Kitti, Sorry to hear that you did have to leave, but I understand. We are here for you, will help by putting our arms around you and hold you up. Just until you can stand on your own.
Just know this doesn't mean it is over. It just means you are spending time apart to think. Now he will have a chance to miss you and know what it is like without you around.
Looks like he is in replay again. Give him space, love from a distance. He needs time to think and so do you.
I still can't believe it! He is just messed up right now kitti.
First off, I am really sorry you're having such a tough time. H, too....
Secondly, I can unfortunately relate to many of the things that you wrote in your post...including the leaving part...it wasn't THAT long ago that I pulled out a suitcase and told h I was leaving...when WAS that? But, well, you can see that I stayed...not saying that's necessarily what you should do...but for me...staying worked better than leaving. I had just hit a point of feeling like the pain was too much, the limbo, the insecurity...that there was too much crap between us...past and present. the explosion that occurred actually did us some good...maybe cleared the air a bit. I hope that turns out to be true for you as well.
Quote: he told me that he has come to the conclusion that if he was treated differently by the people involved then the affair most likely would not have happened.
<snip>
i made the mistake of saying what was it that his affair had that i didn't have that helped him thru such a difficult time. in fact i went a little further and asked him what all his women friends had that i didn't have that he couldn't come to me and talk to me. and why was it that i couldn't come to him with my feelings and problems like they could.
So...Kitti...those two questions are certainly valid ones...and you'll no doubt want to work thru that as you Piece...but I'm wondering what specifically your h was addressing re. the people in the church...in other words..what was he trying to tell you NOW about the way that he felt then?
Quote: well, one thing led to another and he told me that i make him ill. that these last few months of me acting all nice (acting "as if") was nothing but condescending to him and that he knew it wasn't in me to be that way so it made him ill cause he felt i was being fake.
OK, harsh, unpleasant stuff from h. A pox on him! (Not trying to be glib...he's saying what he feels but he's wrapping it up in all kinds of crap). I don't get the "ill" comment but it seems to me that he's trying to let you know that he's sensitized right now to the way you're acting vs. how you may be feeling underneath. OK. So he's sensitized to that....I'm not sure why he views it as "condescending" or what he means by "not in you".
How do you REALLY feel, Kitti? Do you feel like you're covering up a heap of anger (or something else) with niceness? Or are you covering up occasional anger (or something else) with niceness? To me, the two are VERY different...but if h is sensitized it may feel as though you are "always" hiding something.
Quote: conversations went on to include that i have ALWAYS made him feel uncomfortable with everything in our lives. he said again that we got married for the wrong reasons and it's been misery ever since we said "i do"
Nice alien talk (ok, I don't really mean that). He's just talking in extremes, Kitti...sometimes he feels uncomfortable, sometimes he feel miserable. We can work with that!
Quote: i looked up the word "condescending" and it says "an air of superiority" - ah well, that was a light bulb moment - i have now come to the conclusion that my husband has an issue with me being "superior" almost MOM like. then i concluded that yes, he is more worried about pissing me off then worried about what would make me happy. fear. that is what my husband lives in is fear of me. he says he sees me that something is on my mind and i tell him it's ok and he knows it isn't that it makes him sick to his stomach cause he feels it's something he did.
i approached him when he came home with this revelation and he seemed to pause for a moment and then told me how insightful this was, because that is exactly how he feels about me.
OK -- so it's good to establish a baseline. there seems to be some cycle that you guys get into where he feels controlled and condescended to, you (??) feel as though you have to hide how you feel, he feels the same, etc, etc. Um, I think h and I could have written the book on that.
What's the key? Using DB'ing to BREAK that cycle. Listen, kiddo, you ARE doing that! You guys have hit a big old bump in the rollercoaster. That's AOK.
Quote: he feels that there is nothing else we can do to make our marriage any better. he told me again that he cannot and will not have sex with me because he feels he has been "raped" all his life and he will not do that again. he says that sex has meant committment, wrong or right and he is not committed to me or this marriage, only trying to do what is right by way of the kids. he says we have done all we can to make this marriage work and that if we were to continue on that this is the furthest that we could get.
Um...I don't know the context of the rape comment. Can you (or would you feel comfortable?) explaining?
As for this being the furthest you can get...my 2 cents is that DB'ing CAN help you get past sticking points that you've encountered again and again. It's painful and it's hard and it takes longer than we want but I really, really think it can be done. This post alone has identified 2 or 3 things that we could put into goals...
Quote: he just came in here and gave me a hug and i cried - i told him i said goodbye to the boys this morning and he said "i know that had to be hard" - and that was it. he said, i am not asking you to go or to stay, you need to do what is best for you
So, friend, it seems to me that he's leaving the door open for you to stay...are you up for that?
I hope this post hasn't been too, I dunno, unemotional. I can TOTALLY relate with all you've written, Kitti and I firmly believe that you guys can break this cycle. I, too, have said "I can't do this anymore" but I'm glad I stayed...
Sage
Relax. Appreciate. Be calm. Laugh. Enjoy. Be secure. Be loving. Be loved. Don't personalize. Don't ASSume. Accept. Be grateful.
so true, I left cause my ex said that was the best way for us to have a chance, then she said the divorce was the best, so we could start over. I agreed. She started dating and this made me jealous, now I am trying by myself. I often wonder how different things would be if I had fought the divorce and made her move out.
Okay SOMETHING drew me past all my other catch-up threads to YOU, Kitti!!!
((((((((((((((((((((((kk)))))))))))))))))))))))))
I concur with the others....CJ was CONVINCED that we had irreconcilable differences, that I could NEVER change.
I, too, became the "nasty controlling mother" in his eyes...
Your H's comment about "being raped" all of his life really hit me hard. I KNOW CJ resented how I controlled him with my anger, sarcasm, expectations, perfectionism....I have a distinct memory of ML with him, me on top, losing myself in the pleasure...only HE looked very distant...in fact he "lost his ability" to continue....
Kitti, I was FLOORED to find out that CJ lived in fear of me, also...I mean I'm half his size!!! But that's not the point, is it?
The point is he DID live in fear of me, of how I would react....In reality, however, his "vision" of me was skewed....He built me into more of a monster than I EVER was!!!!
Your H is doing the same thing to you.
CJ told me that he had doubts from BEFORE we got married!!! I'd always seen our first year as nothing but bliss...
There's that re-writing of history.
CJ also told me that he felt like a prisoner, and me his parole officer!!!
Oh, the hurtful things!!!
Kitti....Stay home...don't move out.
I'm not saying your H is going to do a 180 on this any time soon but I felt a leap of joy at reading this:
Quote: i approached him when he came home with this revelation and he seemed to pause for a moment and then told me how insightful this was, because that is exactly how he feels about me.
Perhaps one of the first "real" baby steps from your H's POV????
Okay SOMETHING drew me past all my other catch-up threads to YOU, Kitti!!!
((((((((((((((((((((((kk)))))))))))))))))))))))))
I concur with the others....CJ was CONVINCED that we had irreconcilable differences, that I could NEVER change.
I, too, became the "nasty controlling mother" in his eyes...
Your H's comment about "being raped" all of his life really hit me hard. I KNOW CJ resented how I controlled him with my anger, sarcasm, expectations, perfectionism....I have a distinct memory of ML with him, me on top, losing myself in the pleasure...only HE looked very distant...in fact he "lost his ability" to continue....
Kitti, I was FLOORED to find out that CJ lived in fear of me, also...I mean I'm half his size!!! But that's not the point, is it?
The point is he DID live in fear of me, of how I would react....In reality, however, his "vision" of me was skewed....He built me into more of a monster than I EVER was!!!!
Your H is doing the same thing to you.
CJ told me that he had doubts from BEFORE we got married!!! I'd always seen our first year as nothing but bliss...
There's that re-writing of history.
CJ also told me that he felt like a prisoner, and me his parole officer!!!
Oh, the hurtful things!!!
Kitti....Stay home...don't move out.
I'm not saying your H is going to do a 180 on this any time soon but I felt a leap of joy at reading this:
Quote: i approached him when he came home with this revelation and he seemed to pause for a moment and then told me how insightful this was, because that is exactly how he feels about me.
Perhaps one of the first "real" baby steps from your H's POV????
Catching up with you, sending another big hug. I know it hurts to hear what you've heard -- but it's out on the table. Do you think your H exaggerated and dramatized? Maybe some of this will settle down. Don't take to heart the stinging words.
Nothing is ALL OR NOTHING!
When things calm down -- and especially as you LET HIM HAVE HIS OPINION and give things time -- your H will realize this.
Get some distance -- don't interact with him -- I know it's hard -- but make a space for yourself in your home, if you can.
If you have to leave, don't frame it as "forever" -- and use the separation wisely for YOU.
(Is there a way U can ask HIM to leave?)
Meanwile, keep sane every which way you can think of -- new routines, a class, trips to the library -- you need DISTRACTION and plenty of it.
Make a date with comedy? Once a week a dumb movie? Surely the kids can recommend stuff?
(Or just take a look at California politics, hee hee.)
Thinking of you fondly, sending good wishes and some elegant virtual bath oil.
A pox on him! (Not trying to be glib...he's saying what he feels but he's wrapping it up in all kinds of crap). I don't get the "ill" comment but it seems to me that he's trying to let you know that he's sensitized right now to the way you're acting vs. how you may be feeling underneath. OK. So he's sensitized to that....I'm not sure why he views it as "condescending" or what he means by "not in you". 
