Need some help with moving forward.

[Dane]

Well, you laid down a boundary,(was it clearly defined). If so, then you must enforce the consequences.
This topic has had a lot of difference of opinions. But, rest assured, she is not investing in your marriage if there is another man.

[michaelCM]

So, now I am reduced to laying down another boundary. Here is what I am planning to say. And, at this point, I have lost all of my naivete, and am planning to hold my ground, even if it means leaving.

"When you are in contact with OM, I feel like I can’t trust you. I know that I can’t trust him. I asked you to stop, and maybe you did for a while, but you started again. I feel disrespected. I feel like you are lying to me. I will never be able to heal knowing that you are still in contact with him.
You cannot be friends with him and be married to me. I will not share you with him or any other man.
I want you to stop having any contact with him. Immediately. That means NO CONTACT. Unfriend him on FB today. Avoid each other at bars/events at all costs. Just leave. If you have other means of contacting him (Skype, Yahoo accounts, etc.), I want to know about them.
If that is a problem, then let me know, but I can’t go on like this. If you can’t stop, then I need to move on and make a decision about whether I want to stay in this marriage."

Thoughts?
Thanks.

[undefeated]

I think this is a very strong response, very clear. May I suggest practice saying it? It never comes out exactly as it's written, which is good because otherwise it sounds scripted. But it's easier saying something to her if you've already said it out loud before.

[michaelCM]

Thanks, very much, Undefeated. I'm much better at writing than speaking. I don't know if it will come out like this at all. I'm already a wreck. I think I'll be able to express the gist of it though.
I appreciate the tip.

[undefeated]

Also, I would try less "I feel" to be honest.

When you are in contact with OM I cannot trust you. (Leave him out of it altogether IMO.) Even on-again, off-again contact is unacceptable and disrespectful. I will not let you lie to me or keep contacting him and leading me on. It is unhealthy and I am not going to put up with it anymore.

You must be willing to cut off ALL contact with him and avoid contact with him, even in public places. I demand full transparency. That means no secrets whatsoever; absolute access to your communications and whereabouts.

This is the only way we can begin to heal our marriage. I will not share you, and if you cannot accept that I am willing to move on with my life without you.


The thing is, you have to mean it. And therein lies the problem...at least for me. The words sound great! But when push comes to shove, you have to be willing to hurt now (and I bet money it does hurt unimaginably) to be happier, healthier, and stronger as you move forward.

Hope this helps, Michael. And I wish you strength and courage in laying down this boundary.

[chatterbug]

OM's W needs to know as well.

[michaelCM]

Thank you so much, Undefeated. I appreciate your help. I am very alone in this, and I could use any help or kick in the pants I can get.

I talked to W last night. It took everything I had to bring it up. (kind of wish I would have waited to take your edits into consideration, but I couldn't go another day.)

I didn't follow my script to a tee, but I hit all the points.
She agreed to everything I asked. She explained that she has become kind of a counselor to him because of his drinking and inability to do the right things in his marriage. Apparently they were very close to a D last fall. He has made some changes to help himself and his M.
(@cutterbug: I do hesitate to tell OM's W, if indeed they are on the path to improving things.)

She says that she will cut off contact, that she doesn't need to do that anymore for him, etc.
As usual, the proof will be in the pudding. I have many questions for her after I've been able to digest what we talked about. Not the least of which is her inability to stay away from him (remaining addiction?).
Right now, I'm waiting for him to disappear from her friends list on Facebook. That will be the first step for her and me.

Thanks, again. It's nice to know that someone is out there.

[undefeated]

Her resistance in the past to sever all contact is, indeed, a form of addiction. It's difficult to describe. But I was there once. And it may also help to know that each of those "one more time" contacts was less satisfying than the last for me. Each time I'd talk to or see my ex OM I was trying to bring back that initial euphoria, the original high. But every time I saw him it became more obvious how real our relationship hadn't been. And eventually you don't need the contact anymore at all.

If he hasn't been removed from her FB by tonight, don't let her slide on this! This was/is a big sticking point for you. Remember, the only way boundaries work is if they are enforced. If she won't sit down tonight with you right there and write him a no contact statement and delete him as a friend, I'd be demanding some answers.

And I'm sure you did fine, even without my edits. If you got your points across, then the script is less material.

Take care and I will be here as often as I can.

[michaelCM]

He was removed by about 10:00 this morning.
More verification will be needed, but that was the big one. She admitted that they IM'd with each other every day. Now, she won't know when he is actually online.

I haven't talked to her much today. I know that she had to talk to him today to tell him what was going on. I don't know any details about what they spoke about, etc. I'm not sure that I care all that much. As long as she does what I ask.
She talked about him being sort of a pet project (being his counselor), but I know that she got something out of it as well. (He's nice, funny, smart, complimentary, finds her attractive, etc.) So, there's more too it than what she has said. But then, there has always been more to it than what she has said.

Last night, she told me that there was nothing ever physical between them. I reminded her that there was indeed something physical (kissing, touching, etc.). I still don't know if they had sex--she seems pretty adamant that they didn't, and I don't know if I will ever know the truth, or care to know. But, I also wonder if this is part of her wanting to "remember" how it should be in my eyes (lying to herself). (Just like she probably doesn't want to admit that she is addicted to him, in a very real way.)

This will be the second go around of NC. (and about the 20th time I've asked for NC.) We'll see how that goes. I'm hoping that from now on, every time she runs into him, she'll be less and less excited about it. That maybe she'll start saying to herself, finally, that "I don't want to do this to my husband because it hurts him, or will drive him away forever" or even because she doesn't want to do it for her own sanity and health.

<big exhale>

[Dane]

Somebody on the forum said, they will admit to one level below what they actually did.
So, if she says they only were friends, then it is a deep emotional affair, and on up the chain.
Keep that in mind, also as it relates to the affair, don't believe anything they tell you and 50% of what they do.