Going straight forward...antlers 5th thread.

[antlers]

Antlers, Your wife is playing the victim card. Her choice of words is telling too (forever, everyone, always.) I can't fathom how much this hurts you. You can't change the past. Be grateful for the positive growth you have made. The kids will eventually see the bigger picture, stay true to yourself and you will be vindicated. I know you can handle it.

Cheers

You bet she is. When she left, she didn't want to be seen as the 'bad guy'...and now she doesn't want to be seen as the 'bad guy' because of the divorce. No responsibility and total victimization.
I can say that the pain is the closest thing to dying, without actually dying, that I've ever experienced...or that I could ever imagine.
I can't change the past...I'd give up some extremities if I could. I know that I've made some positive growth and I do feel good about it...she doesn't believe it, or even care! So why does that bother me?
I hope the kids will eventually see the bigger picture, because they sure don't right now.
It's hard to stay true to yourself sometimes when important relationships and people in your life are telling you that you aren't!

[givingitmyall]

It's the best thing...to focus on what I can control...but sometimes it's hard to do. Why do I still care what she thinks?

Maybe b/c you love her and care about her. Maybe b/c you are falling back on an old habit - tough to break.

But you have to break it. HER feelings/thoughts/opinions are not your concern anymore. You think she cares what YOU think/feel?

You "family" now is simply you and your kids. PERIOD.

It's ok to have feelings about her. Just don't act on them in a negative way.

[antlers]

It's the best thing...to focus on what I can control...but sometimes it's hard to do. Why do I still care what she thinks?

Maybe b/c you love her and care about her. Maybe b/c you are falling back on an old habit - tough to break.

But you have to break it. HER feelings/thoughts/opinions are not your concern anymore. You think she cares what YOU think/feel?

You "family" now is simply you and your kids. PERIOD.

It's ok to have feelings about her. Just don't act on them in a negative way.

I still do as you said. It is tough to break.

I know I have to break it, and I feel like I have broken it a bunch. Anything about her shouldn't be my concern anymore. I know that. I don't think she gives a rats a$$ about what I think or feel.

Yep. Agreed. My family is my kids and I...period!

I don't want to have feelings for her anymore. And I don't want to act on the ones that I still do have in a negative way...and that really means not acting on them at all.

[givingitmyall]

The opposite of love isn't anger. It's indifference.

How to get there? For me, and it took some time, but I finally realized (after building up my self-esteem) I DESERVED better than what she was capable of being right now. And I began to see things in her I hadn't before that I did not like. And after a while, I asked myself why I would want her?

If you can work those issues, I think it will do nothing but help you.

I'm no psychiatrist, but it seems you are having a time letting go. Why? For me, it was fear. Fear I would be alone the rest of my life. Fear I couldn't do "as good" as my W.

1. Work on your self confidence.
2. Read up on "cognitive dissonance" and "cognitive distortion" - go to wikipedia.org
3. Read "Learned Optimism" by Martin Seligman.

Work through that, and I think you will find that your attachment to your W will vanish. But, I think that all is traceable to, and starts with, you working on your self-confidence.

[antlers]

I do need a healthy dose of self-esteem, but it's hard to get it when so many important things in your life are so messed up!

After seeing things in her that I don't like though, if you care about someone, then you overlook their faults.

I've let go a bunch, but I'm having trouble, I guess, letting go completely. Just being honest. I know it's absolutely necessary though. I do feel, as you did, that I'll be alone the rest of my life and that I can't do "as good" as my wife. Again just being honest.

I don't doubt you a bit, and I can see especially how cognitive distortion (exaggerated and irrational thoughts) can inhibit one's self-confidence.

Changing perspective (learned optimism) should help too.

I just hate like h*ll that things are the way they are.

[givingitmyall]

I just hate like h*ll that things are the way they are.

Not something you get to control. Let go.

I do feel, as you did, that I'll be alone the rest of my life and that I can't do "as good" as my wife. Again just being honest.

Yep. Really focus on this b/c you solve this unreasonable belief, then you unlock a world of healing and can let go.

The cure is self-esteem, self-confidence and optimism.

Working through this problem goes something like this:

1. Identify the root cause of your fear- I will be lonely the rest of my life and I won't be able to find as great a woman as W.
2. Is that root cause a reasonable belief? Of course not. I have a lot to offer and I will end up with a better R than my current M and with a better person for me.
3. Get rid of the irrational belief and your emotions will follow. As Coach says, CHANGE YOUR THOUGHTS, CHANGE YOUR EMOTION." B/c emotion follows thought, not the other way around.

I do need a healthy dose of self-esteem, but it's hard to get it when so many important things in your life are so messed up!

This is victim speak. Victims say things are done to them. As if they do not control their happiness and feel helpless to change things (Seligman calls this "learned helplessness" and it is the oil that greases the tracks to depression).

So, your life (and mine, and everyone here) isn't where you want it to be. That you don't control. How you deal with it and how you react to it ARE TOTALLY up to you. You gonna just survive or thrive? You want to let this conquer you or are you going to kick it's a$$.

Choice is your's man. I know which one I picked, and I'll be damned if this, or anything else, is going to keep me down. I DESERVE better.

[Coach]

I just hate like h*ll that things are the way they are.

Not something you get to control. Let go.

I do feel, as you did, that I'll be alone the rest of my life and that I can't do "as good" as my wife. Again just being honest.

Yep. Really focus on this b/c you solve this unreasonable belief, then you unlock a world of healing and can let go.

The cure is self-esteem, self-confidence and optimism.

Working through this problem goes something like this:

1. Identify the root cause of your fear- I will be lonely the rest of my life and I won't be able to find as great a woman as W.
2. Is that root cause a reasonable belief? Of course not. I have a lot to offer and I will end up with a better R than my current M and with a better person for me.
3. Get rid of the irrational belief and your emotions will follow. As Coach says, CHANGE YOUR THOUGHTS, CHANGE YOUR EMOTION." B/c emotion follows thought, not the other way around.

I do need a healthy dose of self-esteem, but it's hard to get it when so many important things in your life are so messed up!

This is victim speak. Victims say things are done to them. As if they do not control their happiness and feel helpless to change things (Seligman calls this "learned helplessness" and it is the oil that greases the tracks to depression).

So, your life (and mine, and everyone here) isn't where you want it to be. That you don't control. How you deal with it and how you react to it ARE TOTALLY up to you. You gonna just survive or thrive? You want to let this conquer you or are you going to kick it's a$$.

Choice is your's man. I know which one I picked, and I'll be damned if this, or anything else, is going to keep me down. I DESERVE better.

[givingitmyall]

I just hate like h*ll that things are the way they are.

Not something you get to control. Let go.

I do feel, as you did, that I'll be alone the rest of my life and that I can't do "as good" as my wife. Again just being honest.

Yep. Really focus on this b/c you solve this unreasonable belief, then you unlock a world of healing and can let go.

The cure is self-esteem, self-confidence and optimism.

Working through this problem goes something like this:

1. Identify the root cause of your fear- I will be lonely the rest of my life and I won't be able to find as great a woman as W.
2. Is that root cause a reasonable belief? Of course not. I have a lot to offer and I will end up with a better R than my current M and with a better person for me.
3. Get rid of the irrational belief and your emotions will follow. As Coach says, CHANGE YOUR THOUGHTS, CHANGE YOUR EMOTION." B/c emotion follows thought, not the other way around.

I do need a healthy dose of self-esteem, but it's hard to get it when so many important things in your life are so messed up!

This is victim speak. Victims say things are done to them. As if they do not control their happiness and feel helpless to change things (Seligman calls this "learned helplessness" and it is the oil that greases the tracks to depression).

So, your life (and mine, and everyone here) isn't where you want it to be. That you don't control. How you deal with it and how you react to it ARE TOTALLY up to you. You gonna just survive or thrive? You want to let this conquer you or are you going to kick it's a$$.

Choice is your's man. I know which one I picked, and I'll be damned if this, or anything else, is going to keep me down. I DESERVE better.

Wonder where I learned THAT?

[antlers]

I gotta only see her as the mother of my children and nothing more. Period. I gotta really go of it all. Period. I know I'm a better man now, and I'm a better dad now, and I will be a better partner too...and what she thinks or believes about any of this shouldn't matter a hoot. But it does. And I don't want it to.

I agree with you that self-esteem, self-confidence, and optimism are the cure.

My situation is a little different from many here in that, I screwed up BAD by being angry, resentful, and abusive. I was this way for years. I was this way to her and to our kids. It was because of problems I had...not because of anything they were doing. I'm not that way anymore, and I understand the dynamics of it now...but it's still something that I have to stay aware of and work at.

And it's hard to live with what I've done, and with what I've lost because of it.

I've done EVERYTHING in my power to rectify and make amends...but it wasn't enough to save the marriage because I was the only one interested in saving it.

I want to be a happy man, and I want to be a great dad, and a great partner to someone who will return likewise. I'm just in a place right now where it's hard to see all these things becoming a reality.

[antlers]

I do need a healthy dose of self-esteem, but it's hard to get it when so many important things in your life are so messed up! - antlers


This is victim speak. Victims say things are done to them. - GIMA



On the contrary, I was the root cause of most of them!
And I've beat myself up for over a year now, and it hasn't helped the situation one bit. And I've eaten alot of sh!t from her too during this time...tons of it! I validated, and I owned it. I had to be honest with myself though in order to get better and learn.
Don't you think it's been enough time of validating and eating plate after plate of sh!t?