DB VETS - HELP!!

[Heartbroken20]

Grace - I understand the not making the spouse look like a "bad" person but I also don't want the girls to think I am okay with a divorce. I, in no way, want them to think I support her decision. I think they deserve to know that this is her idea, not mine. There will be a lot of anger and frustration from them and I don't want any that I don't deserve. I FULLY accept my part in our problems and I am not perfect by far with lots of work ahead of me, but also strongly believe that our problems (along with those of most other marriages) can be worked out with HONEST effort from BOTH parties. Unless there is true abuse in the marriage, to leave is a cop out, pure and simple. I don't want my girls thinking that it's okay to just divorce and move on once things don't go as you anticipated.

If you can't/won't make a life-long commitment, or are "not sure", then don't marry that person or any one for that matter. Your commitment increases ten-fold once you decide to have children together. Again, if you can't/won't make that additional commitment, then don't have children, it simply isn't fair to them. Marriage seems to have been reduced to "something to do" when you grow up. The incredible number of divorces makes it seem "normal" in the course of a relationship. IMHO it's not the way it was intended to be by God, or whoever you think came up with the concept.

Anyway, everyone has a different opinion on these things. I just don't want my girls taking marriage as lightly as their mother seems to be. My only explanation is that my W's mind is so thoroughly befuddled at this point that she doesn't see things that she always so thoroughly believed in.

[givingitmyall]

Heartbroken,

I like the way Coach handled this in his sitch. He was present for this discussion, but he made his W do all the talking. At the end of the talk, Coach looked at his kids and asked "Do you have any questions of me?" He didn't have to tell them who's idea it was to leave. They knew.

You will need to have a discussion with your W ahead of time to tell her she will be telling the kids and that she is not to tell them anything indicating you agree with D or that this is a "WE" decision. Let your W know if she says anything to that effect, you will step in and correct her in front of the kids.

[ppenton]

I agree with givingitmyall, that's how we handled telling our kids. My W wanted out so I told her she should tell them with me present and it was not easy but needed to be done.

[Heartbroken20]

Heartbroken,

I like the way Coach handled this in his sitch. He was present for this discussion, but he made his W do all the talking. At the end of the talk, Coach looked at his kids and asked "Do you have any questions of me?" He didn't have to tell them who's idea it was to leave. They knew.

You will need to have a discussion with your W ahead of time to tell her she will be telling the kids and that she is not to tell them anything indicating you agree with D or that this is a "WE" decision. Let your W know if she says anything to that effect, you will step in and correct her in front of the kids.

GIMA - Thanks much for this post. This is pretty much how I planned to do it. I will make sure I speak to her beforehand and let her know about correcting her if necessary. Since she is the one leaving, she needs to explain herself. Since she has had to trump up charges against me to justify her decision, it will be interesting to see what she says. You're right that they will know this is her idea, not mine. They already know she has been the pimary driver of the tension in the house and have told her so. ("why are you so uptight?" and "why are you so mad all the time?)

I have always heard good things about Coach, I will have to read through his threads and learn.

[Puppy Dog Tails]

Heartbroken,

I like the way Coach handled this in his sitch. He was present for this discussion, but he made his W do all the talking. At the end of the talk, Coach looked at his kids and asked "Do you have any questions of me?" He didn't have to tell them who's idea it was to leave. They knew.

You will need to have a discussion with your W ahead of time to tell her she will be telling the kids and that she is not to tell them anything indicating you agree with D or that this is a "WE" decision. Let your W know if she says anything to that effect, you will step in and correct her in front of the kids.

Yes, this. ^

Puppy

[CABBR]

HB20,

I am going through the exact same scenario. Couldn't agree more with your overall comments.

Greek explained to me how Coach handled it and I intend to follow that approach.

My W and I are meeting with a child psychologist this morning to discuss. I will make my W own it. She will try to argue that it's in the best interest of the children to hear that it was a mutual decision so as not to turn them away from her. My W also wants to provide handwritten books to the kids to explain what the new living arrangements will look like. Whatever.

I'm half exepecting my W to say I'm being selfish about it and in a way maybe I am, but I think the kids are entitled to an age appropriate truth and knowing whose decision it was seems appropriate.

CABBR

[Heartbroken20]

Thanks Cabbr.

My wife has already discussed it with my D16's C apparently. She told me about it two weeks after the fact (typical notification timeline lately) and that means a week before she even told me she wanted a divorce. Damn nice of her. Don't know if the C has discussed it with my D16 since but am going to ask the C. Presuming not as there has been no change in D16's behavior or attitude toward me or my W that I can see.

My W also says the divorce, although hard, will be best for the children, and for her and I. Still amazes me that she believes that. Whatever, just shows how lost she really is. I feel bad for her because it will hit her hard when she finally comes out of the fog and finds herself alone....

[Heartbroken20]

Thanks Puppy. So what do I do about the Collaborative Law divorce proceedings?

As I don't want the divorce and she does, and it only works if we all agree to settle things peacefully and quickly (there's no formal separation required), do I just go ahead and divorce? I know a lot of DB techniquies are counter-intuitive but that seems to take the cake!

Perhaps I should recommend a formal separation as a stop-gap measure?

Any recommendations?

[Puppy Dog Tails]

I certainly wouldn't advocate divorce, if you don't want it. You don't have to speed this thing along just because HE does.

Puppy

[CABBR]

Hb20,

What Greek asked me was whether I felt my W's reasons for wanting to leave the marriage justified giving her what she wanted. If yes, then roll over and give her what she wants; if not, then stand up and fight for the marriage in a way that says you are not going to be reasonable and go along just to get along for fear of retribution.

This is done more by your actions rather than saying anything. Your W has to feel the reality of leaving you, the emotional and economic toll. While it's true you can't ultimately control whether your W files for a D or not - you would do well not to make any part of it easier.

Greek said to give the WAS NOTHING.
Do not rescue the WAS at all.
Rather, let them feel the real world consequences of their decisions.

You do this in hopes your W will come along for the ride, but if she doesn't, then your kids see you standing up for them and the marriage and how to handle adversity with strength and honor.

I'm merely paraphrasing what's been said by those way more experienced than me. No doubt standing up in this way will be messy and more expensive. However, if there ever was anything worth fighting for and risking losing everything - it's your kids.

CABBR