My WAW is moving ahead with divorce despite my efforts to change me enough to make her want to stay. She says she has noticed the changes but it's not enough as she simply isn't in love with me any more and is done trying.
She does not want to wait until after the holidays to start the Collaborative Law process and I have been trying to not involve our D13 & D16 kids. But she recently discussed her EA with them (her "it really wasn't anything serious and is over now anyway" version and why she did, who the heck knows!) and I am very concerned about what else she has told them (but not discussed with me) when I'm gone during the week. (geographic bachelor in Navy duty M-F, home on weekends) I don't feel right about proceeding with any type of divorce proceedings without them "officially" knowing that is what she wants and why.
Planning on holding a family meeting about it in a couple of weeks and want to know what the best way is to tell them about it. They obviously know she has not been happy and that we are having problems but not sure they know divorce is the only option in her opinion and that she wants out NOW.
How do we discuss with the kids?
Do I ask what they know about her EA or not bring it up? It wasn't the cause of our problems but prevented her from investing in keeping us together. I feel they need to know at least one reason why she doesn't want to work on our marriage any longer despite her "having tried everything" to make it work.
I plan on saying that I strongly disagree with her desire to divorce and that I still want to remain married to her and work on our relationship. Good move or not?
Will obviously tell them that although our situation may change, my love for them will not and this is in no way their fault nor could they have done anything about the way she feels about me.
This will be the first official "Mommy is unhappy and wants a divorce" discussion. What other things should we cover?
What things should we NOT cover and make sure we DON'T do?
Anything (reactions, etc.) else I should be prepared for?
Thanks for any help!
Me 47 W 44 D16, D13 T 23yrs M 20yrs WAW/MLC + Male EA "BFF from H.S." = Misery
I only have a moment, but I wanted to let you know that I agree with your line of thinking. You do NOT need to tell your kids that you agree with this, and in fact, you shouldn't. "Your mother and I disagree, I do not want a divorce right now, but I accept her decision and we both still love you very much" -- something like that.
I absolutely think you should find out what she told them, but I wouldn't ask leading questions. Just "what did she tell you?", and then listen to what they say. Do not lie to cover up her affair. In difficult times like this for children, they need to know that at least ONE parent will always tell them the truth.
As the product of a broken M, I would love to have heard that from one of my parents - the best I could settle for was many years later when my m told me that she still loved my f and D was the only option available to her at the time. (Totally screwed up!)
If only I knew that one of them had loved us kids and it was not what they wanted, instead of seeing constant fights and two 'adults' trying to get their own way, perhaps I would be less screwed up myself and not having to spend so much time in C.
Good luck HB20. Just shower genuine and constant love on your kids and you won't go far wrong. They need to feel your protection and know that they are special to you, whatever is going on in your world. Even the small things can make a big difference.
I got a bouquet on my 16th birthday from my bf. I can remember crying so much and WISHING that it had been from my father.
Last edited by Eskimo Nell; 10/20/0909:47 PM.
WAH 43; W 47 M 16; T 17 Cats 15 & 6 Bomb 27/05/09 ow 28/06/09
"It is only on the darkest night that we see the stars"
I wouldn't discuss EA or anything else that's "private Mom & Dad" stuff with the kids. My D's were right around your kids ages when it broke loose for me.
Great with the "it's not your fault" stuff. We all know that kids have a way of making it about something they did or didn't do. Keep reinforcing that one.
My H and i are seperated and while divorce has never been taken off the table, he hasn't filed. Do my D's think divorce is eminent? Probably, but it isn't asked about and I don't bring it up.
Make sure you ask the kids if they have any questions. Some of them you won't be able to answer. That's when the ball is in her court.
I strongly suggest that you both talk to them together. Everybody knows what's being said that way and are in a better position to help the kids.
They will know more than you think they do, but right now may not want to talk about it. Their reactions can vary widely. However they feel is valid. I've got one that to this day has never said anything about it. The other one wound up getting angry. Actually rage is a better word. Got into some things that resulted in counseling for her.
If counseling is necessary, it is. You'll just have to watch and see.
Of course you'll need to let them know how their lives will change. Where they will live, go to school, visitation etc. You won't have all the answers right up front and it's ok to say "I'll get back to you on that".
Will the two of you be able to co-parent ok? It will take awhile, but kids (and esp teenages IMO) will use the space between the two of you to "hide". Any information that one of you has and the other one doesn't is prime space. My H and I have a specific day to talk about whata's going on with kids. If and when you're ready I can provide more about that.
I wouldn't discuss EA or anything else that's "private Mom & Dad" stuff with the kids. My D's were right around your kids ages when it broke loose for me.
. . . with this:
Quote:
Make sure you ask the kids if they have any questions. Some of them you won't be able to answer. That's when the ball is in her court.
What does he do when his 16 year old daughter turns to him and says "Yeah, I have a question. Someone at school said mom has a boyfriend, and that's why you guys are splitting up. Is that true?"
And before you say "He should say 'You need to ask your mother that question,'" let's assume that Mom says something fuzzy and untruthful like "There is no one else that is the reason why your father and I are splitting up; it's not been any one thing, but a lot of different things," or something similar? Should he enable the lie?
"Your mother and I disagree, I do not want a divorce right now, but I accept her decision and we both still love you very much" -- something like that.
Puppy
P.S. Not everyone will agree with this.
PDT - Thanks but I think I need to disagree myself.
I do NOT want to accept her decision and start divorce proceedings (yet). Under Collaborative Law, both parties get their own attorneys and then all sit down together and haggle out a settlement. It starts immediately without the traditional separation "cooling off" period, etc.
Or are you saying the only way things will change is if I agree to it (or she thinks I do) and take actual steps toward it and betting that things will change later?
Me 47 W 44 D16, D13 T 23yrs M 20yrs WAW/MLC + Male EA "BFF from H.S." = Misery
As far as co-parenting, I HOPE we will be fine. We agree on many topics concerning the girls, especially their behavior toward others and each other, rules about boys, schoolwork, personal responsibility, curfews, etc.
We tend to disagree on some things like spending money on clothes, piercings, eating out, getting jobs, etc. My W is the youngest of three, born 10 yrs after her nearest sibling and was definitely doted on by her mother and everyone else. Her family is relatively well off while mine is definitely of more modest means. "No" was not a word she heard very often growing up and shopping and dining out all the time was "normal" to her. She has always charmed her way into getting a "yes" from people (me included).
Bottom line is she's typically the "good cop" and I end up being the "bad cop". Concerned she will use that to her advantage if/when we do split.
Your other points are well taken. My oldest daughter sees a C now as she likes a neutral ear to discuss her life. Much of her issues seem to be typical "teenage angst" but if it helps her stay on track, I support it. She has butted heads with my W for several years now, which I think is normal. She casts the bait, and my W can't resist taking it and off they go. I try to stay out of the fray but lately get "you agree with her, don't you?" or "why didn't you support me?" from my W.
I don't take sides but always admonish my daughter if her tone gets disrespectful, even when I TOTALLY AGREE WITH HER VIEWPOINT. Agree or disagree, we're her parents and she needs to show some respect.
Fortunately, my wife has agreed that the kids will stay in our current home and will not be moved anywhere. She intends to stay in the area and wants us to be friendly and cooperative co-parents. She knows she will have to move out as she is the one who is breaking up our family and will likely get a small place of her own with rooms for them to stay/visit with her during her time with them.
Trying to take care of me and disengage from her as much as possible. Other than leaving me and destroying our family, she is being very caring about everything so far. It is by far the gentlest twisting of a knife I have ever felt....but the end, result is the same.
Me 47 W 44 D16, D13 T 23yrs M 20yrs WAW/MLC + Male EA "BFF from H.S." = Misery
PDT - I plan on letting her explain her actions, and in the process, end up digging her own grave. If she does try to lie, I will simply tell them that I personally believe there is more to the story but it is their Mom's decision as to how much to tell them. That is honest and the truth but will also get the point across. I won't volunteer info but if they ask me a direct question, I will not lie to them and have told my W that.
The OM is married and lives across the country, fortunately, but they already know the hours she's spent on the phone with him and the thousands (not exaggerating) of texts they've exchanged. She has always explained it away as simply helping a good friend with his personal problems. I think they now know better or will once they put her recent disclosure and her desire to get divorced together.
Me 47 W 44 D16, D13 T 23yrs M 20yrs WAW/MLC + Male EA "BFF from H.S." = Misery
Every sitch is different and in my case the easy part has been that H has kept his private life away from us, so if there is someone, it has not been put in their faces.
Just b/c my D's have a question, does not mean it gets answered. For example: "Does Dad have a girlfriend?" is one for him. "Why did Dad leave?" We discussed how we would address this with them. Have I ever said "b/c he isn't in love with me and wants to go find someone else and be happy"? No. There are elements of any adult R that kids don't IMO need to be privy to.
My rule of thumb is not to say anything that makes their Dad a "bad guy". I'm also aware that my D's know more than is said. Is it lying to them? Yeah, it is. I would not enable the lie you gave as an example. Which is why it was important to me that we talked about what and how we were telling our D's.
It even came up that he was going to tell them he was moving b/c of his commute. That one wasn't allowed b/c it would have implied we were still a couple.
In my home it was presented in terms of sometimes in a marriage because of unhappiness and frustration people separate. Do they need to know that he walked and I'm fighting for our family, specifically? No. I can and have shown them in other ways the value of family and fighting for your family without saying "Dad wants this and I don't".
This is just how it's worked for me. Under different circumstances I would feel differently, so I see your point of view.
"Your mother and I disagree, I do not want a divorce right now, but I accept her decision and we both still love you very much" -- something like that.
Puppy
P.S. Not everyone will agree with this.
PDT - Thanks but I think I need to disagree myself.
I do NOT want to accept her decision and start divorce proceedings (yet). Under Collaborative Law, both parties get their own attorneys and then all sit down together and haggle out a settlement. It starts immediately without the traditional separation "cooling off" period, etc.
Or are you saying the only way things will change is if I agree to it (or she thinks I do) and take actual steps toward it and betting that things will change later?
Neither. I'm merely saying, don't tell the child that you "agree this is for the best" if you DON'T. A walkaway spouse will typically be full of moral relativism and fuzzy ambiguity on the divorce itself.
