Hey Gucci, Puppy, RobX and Coach!

[Butterfly1]

Hey robx - I like your attitude - I could use some of that. How about for a W dealing with a WAH who is very angry and critical any time he comes home? He lives in his apt. but first thing out of his mouth when he comes to take S or visit is yelling about something I f***ed up in his mind. Does a H respond to a strong woman too? Usually if I stand up to him saying come find me when you are calm, etc, he gets even more furious. It seems to backfire.

General advice? Or check out my thread to see my sitch? Thx! "I'm new and wondering if this works" is the name of my thread.

[robx]

hey hope4luv,
".... how about a wife dealing with a WAH who is very angry and critical any time he comes home?"

Well a couple things:
- he is a WAH, what happened, why did he leave, what's the problem in your situation: endless arguing, physical/verbal abuse, infidelity - what is his excuse for leaving you?

Bullies aren't gender specific: both men & women can pick up that title pretty easily. I think my ideas work against any bully, you let a person walk all over you repeatedly and guess what? .... they'll continue to do so. If you act like a punching bag for someone to take out their anger & frustration with, guess what? .... they continue "punching" away at you.

You stand up to a bully regardless if you're afraid to do so.
They count on you being afraid, that's why the bullying work.

The next your WAH comes over to pick up his son and he starts yelling at you and bad mouthing you, you walk right up to him, stand square with him (both feet point forwards and your body facing him, you look him in the eyes and if you have trouble staring at his eyes, you look at the place between his eyes and maintain eye contact because both your body position & your eye contact are important) and you tell him with no uncertainty in your voice and make it louder than normal without yelling but put enough volume behind it so that he knows you mean business.

"I will not reward your $hitty attitude & crap behavior anymore with my attention. Be a real man, take responsibility for your actions and stop using me as your crutch & your reasons for your bad attitude. The next time you come here to pick up our son, knock on the door & wait outside and I will get him ready for you but I no longer want you in my home when you act like this. This is the last time I will tell you this, the next time you come here you will be civil towards me now wait outside and I will get our son."

Say it all, don't turn this into a conversation.
This is a one way statement, you aren't getting into a conversation about any of this - very important. Turn around, turn your back on him and then walk away and if he starts talking, you put up your hand and tell him "I told you to wait outside, I'm not talking to you anymore today."

Yes this works.

Bullies only take advantage of people that they feel they can, they usually don't have the guts to do this to people who will stand up to them and give them something back.

If he continues to argue, smile at him and point your finger to the door and use your other hand to wave goodbye to him.

This may take a few times but it works, you can't just do this once and turn into a wimp the next time he pulls this because then he knows he has you. Wash, rinse, repeat until the desired effect is achieved. You can do it.

I personally hate bullies.
Dealing with bullies effectively is a huge confidence booster, once you know how to deal with one, you'll be able to spot others and you will instinctively develop the attitude & behavior required to deal with them and... pleasant side effect, your children will pick up on this ability and learn it as well. Bullying affects so many kids and not many adults know enough to show their kids what to do about it.

Also, it goes without saying, never tolerate physical abuse in any form. He touches you, pushes you around or gets violently angry, you call 911. This isn't just advice for women dealing with angry men, this is also advice for men dealing with angry women - some women think it's ok to be violent & abusive with men hoping that gender stereotypes will provide them with the "get out of jail free" card.

When you stand up for yourself you communicate to others that you respect yourself so start respecting yourself today.

[BigJohn]

wow! a thread title that includes my name, I'm honored, truth be told I get the idea that some people around here think I'm a bully or a hard-ass or a combination of the two (not that it matters) but I'll just say that I'm not a bully.

RobX,

First off, thank you for your time and the great post. The fact of the matter is that we all have our own unique perspectives and talents to offer up to each other here to try and help each other's sitchs. Regardless of whether I agree with you or anyone else 100%, I for one am grateful for your willingness to spend your valuable personal time sharing your insight and ideas to try to help me in my sitch. You are not a bully, just a man of passion as am I. Sometimes it is hard for others to distinguish between the two.

She's a bully (your wife), having an affair with the OM and then trying to kick you out of your house.

If you've never faced your partner before and stood up to them, it's probably one of the scariest experiences to go through. I found like so many others on this forum have found out that once you stand up to the WAS and tell them you aren't taking their crap anymore and you really mean it, things start to change.

In her own passive-aggressive way, I suppose my W is being a bully, although in her mind she undoubtedly considers it being "assertive" against her "oppressive" H. I'm not scared of my W's behavior- disturbed might be a better description. I have a much stronger personality than my W- always have- so I don't know what to expect now that I'm switching gears with my approach to her. My W has said she does not want to fight with me which, in the context of a D, might be to my advantage. The problem is her avoidance of conflict is one of her hang ups that works against me in wanting to work on our MR.

I've said it plenty of times on this forum in one form or another but one thing you have to get in your head is this: you have to be willing to let go of the people that don't value you or the relationship they have with you. These people don't have any respect for you if they're willing to hurt you & take advantage of you. You have to read this several times and understand it because there is alot of power in these words but even more power in taking action based on these words.

Exactly, As a man I share the same perspective. If this sitch involved anyone other than my W, I wouldn't take this sh*t for one minute, that person would be history to me. What I've tried to do is to understand the sitch from her perspective and to handle it as my W being over her head in an emotional crisis. Unfortunately, giving her a lot of latitude and trying to see her A run it's course these past 6 mos. has not paid off.

You need to grow a spine and start to stand up for yourself. It’s impossible to truly love yourself & draw self esteem from within if you are letting people walk all over you. Every time you let someone treat you badly your self esteem drops just a little bit. People will never be able to fully respect and/or love you if you don't respect & love yourself FIRST. If you let people walk all over you, take advantage of you, hurt you, etc. you are allowing people to disrespect you which means you don't respect yourself. Set boundaries in place which determine how people can treat you.

It's not fear that is my enemy- I'm not spineless by any means. My issue is more of being protective of my W at my own expense. This protectiveness is now fading fast as I look to protect my interests and the interests of my kids.

I get the "watch out for your self respect" a lot, especially from people who don't know me intimately. It's a reasonable concern, however fortunately I have a large reservoir of self confidence/self worth/self esteem to tap into. If the means justify the end for a cause worth fighting for (i.e. my M and family) I can absorb a lot of punishment without a lot of long term negative impact. Believe me, if my well starts to run dry in this regard my W in particular is going to be in serious trouble.

When your spouse is having an affair with the OM and you're trying feverishly to win her back, I think it's the wrong move. Never compete with the OM to win your wife back, it can't work. Competing to get your wife back from the OM communicates directly & indirectly that you don't think you're valuable enough/good enough to have your wife, if you have to compete for her, you are saying that you have to prove your value to her and that never works. The only way to prove your value, prove you respect yourself is to not compete.

I agree 100%. I have not attempted to "compete" with OM this entire time and I won't. I think the fact that I have made the choices I have made thus far in the sitch- along with demonstrating the strength and patience to deal with my W and her problems- speaks volumes as to the man I am. I feel that I have removed the excuses for my W to not want to at least try to work on our MR- I am not going to kiss her a$$ to boot. (Interestingly, my W has sought on more than one occasion to get credit just for sticking around and not leaving despite not wanting to work on our MR and saying "I'm done", "I want to eventually S and D", blah, blah blah.)

When these types of problems occur in relationships, it boils down to control, who's in charge, who is making the decisions?... When your wife started having an affair with the OM, she made this decision all on her own, she didn't ask for your input or permission, she just made the decision without regard to your feelings and any pain it would cause you or your family. She took control of the relationship, she has control right now. [quote]

Excellent point. And what is amazing is that during our sitch my W has actually chided me on several occasions about my "control issues" in our R. I'll have to remember to poke her in the eye next time she brings that complaint up given the results of her presently being in control of our R.


[quote]How do you take back control? You tell her in plain english, "I'm done, this is over. Enjoy your life, I don't care anymore. I will file for divorce/legal separation, I will live in the house and you can get your own place, you decided to have an affair and there are going to be consequences for your actions, I'm not going to leave my home anytime soon and I'm not going to argue about this either."

You will file for joint custody of your children if you have kids, you will find a way to have them 50% of the time, I don't care how much work it takes, you'll do it... IF ANY OF THIS IS IMPORTANT TO YOU, YOU'LL DO IT!

Already done and/or in the process.

You won't supplicate her, you won't buy her gifts, you won't treat her to fancy restaurant dinners, you won't beg, plead or cry to ask her to come back home and take you back. If she wants you back and if you do things correctly, she may very well come back and she may be the one who does the begging, pleading & crying.

That's the objective at this point.

You will start dating...she will see that other women are willing to date you, this shows that to other women you have value...this type of "proof" wakes the WAS up and they start to realize your value again and start to question what they let go of. Seeing you with other women will make her jealous... Plus you moving on and dating other women shows that you're taking control of the situation, you are choosing to move on, you are choosing not to let your wife control how you feel or act, you are showing her that you can enjoy life without her.

I understand the thought process, but I can't get on board with this one. Right now, I am the only responsible parent my kids have, they are counting on me to be the best father I can be. Plus, I'd just be lowering myself to my W's standards right now. I am better than that. My W has been witness to several instances already during our sitch where other women have openly complimented me in front of her. She is aware of 20 year old college girls at our church asking where can they go and what can they do to score a guy like me for a husband. All of her sisters and friends keep telling her what a babe and great guy I am and that she is a fool to risk her M to me for fat ass buffoon OM. It goes on and on, I don't need to go on the offensive to try to prove anything to my W at this point. Right now, it looks like my W just has to crash and burn big time to learn her lesson. Just don't know when that is going to be right now.

How's that, I always aim to provide a lengthy, hot air filled, verbose reply to anyone who asks for it ;-)

It was just right, RobX. Thanks again and stop in anytime, your feedback is always welcome.

[Jman]

Hey BJ that is smart that you set up a post in this forum. It seems like you are getting some great info.

I want to ask Robx if the info he gave you about asking the W to leave pertains to a lot of the WaW spouse situations?

In my sit the W had an A with a coworker and its poss it may be over but who knows exactly. So anyway she does not have a care in the world about me she is showing the classic WaW syndrome stuff. We still sleep in the same bed she wears her rings, she does not like to change in front of me.
She said she does not want to work on the MR that she is done.
Should I use the same info that was provided above for BJ for the Waw?
I am tired of the doormat stuff myself and am ready to take back control of this R I just need the info to do it.

[BigJohn]

Jman,

I think that for the time being you have a more stable sitch than I do. If I were you, I'd be inclined to look to these guys for advice on establishing some firm boundaries with your W.

Things went downhill in my sitch as expected once my W made her trip to see OM and now I need to take the appropriate defensive measures. As much as how thing suck right now, I would recommend that you give serious thought before escalating things with your W.

[BigJohn]

Who is sleeping the master bedroom right now?

The wrong answer will be "my wife is".

Move back into the master bedroom if you currently sleep on the couch, basement or other room.

We both are. We go to bed at different times to avoid each other. Usually my W stays up late and comes to be after me because she is working so little. Plus late night is a great time to be TM OM... or at least that is my assumption.

Just like the house, I am not moving out of the master bedroom, let alone my own bed.

[Jman]

Well my sit is different and I would consider going well as in communication with kids and everything else but our R. It is obvious though she does not care for me. She shows no remourse or anything for the A she admitted. How do I gain that respect back from her or atleast me doing the right things to get her to poss wake up?

[BigJohn]

Well my sit is different and I would consider going well as in communication with kids and everything else but our R. It is obvious though she does not care for me. She shows no remourse or anything for the A she admitted. How do I gain that respect back from her or atleast me doing the right things to get her to poss wake up?

Jman,

Is your W still carrying on her EA with the OM and/or have things escalated between them? If OM is still around, forget about trying to work on your MR with your W for now. You need to start establishing boundaries with your W with tough love in mind, focusing your attention on you and the kids and detaching. Keep standing your ground, don't move out of the house or the bed.

Have a good week. Hang in there!

[Butterfly1]

Hey BJ and robx -
I hate to crosstalk - but I have to tell you both - I thought a lot about what you said and I need to thank you. It really helped my interaction with H.

He spent dinner with me and S tonight. I prepared a big family dinner of lots of food, thinking there would be something for everyone that way. My husband started raising his voice and criticizing me about how I gave him "too much food" and "what a waste that is" and he's "told me so many times to ask him before I make a meal"...I was p.o.ed considering I cooked things I knew he liked and for the eight years we've been together his motto has been "I'll eat anything in front of me as long as it doesn't get away from me first". So his pickiness was a shock to me.

I stood up to him! I told him he could thank me instead for cooking such a nice meal and see things from my point of view - that I provided more food so that he would have choices as to what he wanted. I told him exactly what I tell S - that he gets what I cook and he can eat what he wants or politely say "no thank you".

He tried to convince me how right he was and I wouldn't have it. I asked him how he would prefer I handle dinner, since as long as I have known him he has been happy to eat what I put in front of him. I told him if he wants me to handle it differently, he can tell me how he would like it. (Then he can't criticize me if it's his way.)

Anyway, somehow by the grace of god I stopped him at the pass. I still don't know if I can do it again! It took me all day to get up the nerve and I was terrified. But thanks, you guys gave me the confidence.

[Jman]

Hey BJ,
I don't know if it is over it does not seem like it. I need some tough love examples then. I really would like to boot her out of the house or at the least out of the bedroom Something that shows me taking back control of the R. I want to gain that respect back and I am at the point to wanting to do something.