A new one here....

[Arwen_in_NJ]

I have posted pieces of this elsewhere, but it seems the newcomers board is a good place to put it all together...

Here is my story (sorry for the length)...

We are a lesbian couple. Have been together 17 years, "married" for 15 (we had a commitment ceremony- both our families attended). No kids. Three years ago, we were civilly unioned in Vermont, 2 years ago in NJ, so now there is a legal tie.

In April 2008, W took long term, temporary (18-24 months) job assignment in IL. We live in NJ. We talked about renting the house in NJ and me moving with her, but decided to wait until we saw whether or not she liked job & was going to stay. Gave it 3 months, and then we would talk about it. After 3 hard, lonely months, it seemed she was making friends and getting settled in, so we did not talk further about me going to be with her. I stayed in NJ, kept up house, took care of animals, worked on building real estate business as bottom fell out of market.

After about 6 months, got a gut feeling something was wrong. Once when she was home, I heard her talking on the phone to a new friend, and I commented I had never heard her use that tone of voice with anyone but me- jokingly asked if I should be worried. She replied if I saw what the friend looked like, I would know I had nothing to worry about, but that she "liked when I got jealous". I had two visions (like daydreams) of seeing her pulling up to her apt in IL, and someone else getting out of the car with her. I put this down to my own loneliness & insecurity, as I have never had reason to doubt her. In Nov., on a hunch, I told her I knew she was lonely, and that if something ever happened, it would not be the end of us (she once told me if I had an affair, not to bother coming home). She said "don't give me permission". I said I wasn't, just wanted to let her know we could work through it if something did happen. I then asked her if she was having an affair, and she said no.

The following February, we had a little tiff over something minor. Later that night, I told her that there was nowhere else I would rather be, and no one that I would rather be with. Her response was "I know". Argh. Asked her if there was someone else, and her response was "I don't want to talk about it- turn off the light". :-O Found out while taking her to the airport the next day, it was a friend in IL (I guessed who) who had lost her job & left a relationship previous July. The two of them had bonded, playing golf, going to dinner, talking on phone that turned into all night conversations, and affair "just happened"- she wasn't looking for it. EA for months that became PA last November.

By her own words, she was living a "double life." In IL, she had this fun passionate relationship (although by her own admission, the OW is "not very attractive"), when she came home she had the stability of me & the house...

After I discovered the A, she came home for a few weeks, ostensibly to work on R. She told OW she could not see her "for the duration". After two days, she decided she didn't want R, and I discovered she had called OW since she had been home. I think she was having too much fun and getting too much attention (with no responsibility since it was a "casual affair") with the A to want to give it up. Giving up the A would have meant being alone again far from home, and giving up the social network she had formed in IL. I told her it was too painful for me to have her home if she was not going to work on R, and she spent next week with friends in NYC.

Though a few months ago she said the A was "not a long term thing", "I don't want to marry her", "I don't want to meet her family, and I don't want her to meet mine", since then she has said it "has progressed" and "she has fallen in love with her".

The long term job ended ended the end of May, and W moved back home. However, she made it clear she was continuing the A. She was home 3 days and then went on 2 week vacation with OW, was home a week and a half and then spent 4th of July weekend with OW at a B&B two hours from here. OW came back with her to OUR TOWN last Sunday July 5, and the two of them stayed together at friend's house 1/2 mile form OUR house for the next 5 days. OW is unemployed, and now looking for job here. W has introduced OW to our friends, introduced her to our DOG, showed her part of our art collection, etc. I think in W's mind I am moving out, and she is going to move OW in (we own house jointly and are civilly unioned in NJ).

I thought we had a very good relationship- the envy of our friends gay or straight. We were very comfortable with each other, almost never fought, never got tired of spending time together, have similar interests, always loving and affectionate.

I think she is in mid-life crisis, as in addition to the A, in the last year she went skydiving on her 48th birthday and got a tattoo. Her behavior around the A has been incredibly selfish and thoughtless (definitely NOT the woman I have loved and lived with for 17 years). She thinks she is being "considerate and sensitive" by not bringing OW TO our house. This thing has been all about HER- a fun relationship with no responsibility. When I asked her where she saw R with OW going, her response was "I've given up trying to predict the future- I'm not very good at it. I don't know what's going to happen next week, next month, six months from now". In other words- don't pin me down.

Had sit-down with W Fri July 10 to talk about separating (her instigation). She spoke to atty earlier in week & discovered she has huge financial liability in D. She wants mediation, says she wants to be fair, then says "I am not going to give you any of my retirement; I am not going to pay you alimony. You don't deserve it and if you try to get it, I am going to leave the country. I want a quick, clean break and to move on. I don't want to give you any of my future earnings." :-( Boy, she is really angry with me.

I have been trying to be detached and DB, but I backslid and we got into talking about relationship. I tried to reason, let her know I am still willing to work on us, and she says she has noticed changes, but does not have "those feelings" for me anymore. OW has put her house on market, is looking for job in NYC and will get apt. there. WAW says she is love with her, although they will maintain separate residences... :-( Although I smell disaster for the other relationship, it looks pretty hopeless for us.

I tried to tell her I thought she had treated me badly (Big mistake!!)- she made decision to continue EA when she realized it was going past friendship and not tell me about it, when it got physical she made decision to continue it, when I asked her point blank if she was having an affair she made decision to lie about it. Her response was that I "chose" to ignore signs there were problems, like when she did not come home (from long distance job assignment) as often as she could have. I responded "so it's my fault I believed in you and our marriage? When you lied to me I chose to believe you"? Not productive, I know. We did not yell or scream (we never do), but it was tense. We got past that and the conversation became more amiable. Talked about who might get house, pieces of furniture that were from her family that she was afraid I would claim, etc. Ended on calm note and she then spent that night with OW. :-P

OW went back to IL next day & W spent Sat. night with a friend. Sunday she came home. We had pleasant evening together- made dinner, sat on deck, talked about work, etc. No R talk. I think she felt comfortable. In offhand way, I volunteered to contribute $ to running house, so she could decrease contribution. The fact that she has been supporting me has been big issue over last few years, so this was important. She mentioned getting someone to do yard work since I am now working... when we are together, she still talks "future" things about house, as if we are not separating and one of us will be moving. It's bizarre.

OW came back into town this past Friday (away 6 whole days). They are back staying at the friend's here in town, rest of the week staying in NYC while OW has job interviews & looks for apt. :-(

Why rub my face in the A by having her here? Is she that selfish? Is she trying to make me so fed up I move out? Is she so angry at me that she is maliciously trying to hurt me? Does she want me to fight for her?

W is spending next few nights in NYC with friends & OW (she has business there & we are 1 1/2 hr commute each way). The attitude of these "friends" is that since W made decision to separate and D, she should get things moving and done with quickly to minimize the pain and suffering to all concerned. My POV is the slower things go, the more time I have to implement changes, the better the chance W's feelings toward us may change or A might implode.

How do you DB when spouse is not around to interact with, and friends (who think they are "helping") are working against you???

Thought of calling Divorce Coach. Is it too late for that???

[Tomato]

not to make light of your intial post on here, but I took particular notice of your DB name Arwen ...seems to me to be a Welsh name ..is it?

I was just readying to jump of here for a while when I saw that. I will read what you posted when I come back on here.

just browsed a smidge of what you posted. The values the you live your life by and the one's I choose to are sorta perhaps polar opposites. I respect an individuals freewill to excercise that which God has granted them though so I will read up later to learn more of your sitch.

Peace be in your heart.

Ted

[Tomato]

btw ..welcome to the board and I hope that you find solace and are strenghtened from being here.

[Arwen_in_NJ]

not to make light of your intial post on here, but I took particular notice of your DB name Arwen ...seems to me to be a Welsh name ..is it?
...
just browsed a smidge of what you posted. The values the you live your life by and the one's I choose to are sorta perhaps polar opposites. I respect an individuals freewill to excercise that which God has granted them though so I will read up later to learn more of your sitch.

Ted

I am a huge Tolkien fan, hence the handle.

I believe God/Higher Power made me what I am, for reasons only S/He knows. I can no more change that than I can change the color of my eyes. Yes, I could "act" otherwise, same way I could wear colored contacts, but that would be not be honest.

The way I see it, my job here is to live my life as best I can with kindness, sensitivity, love, honor, honesty, fidelity, respect. Those are my "values", and they have nothing to do with my sexual orientation. :-) Somehow, I don't think your values are polar oppposites to mine.... ;-)

[Dia]

Hi, Arwen,

I'm new here, but from what I've read, separation doesn't mean the marriage is past saving. The whole point of DBing is that you can do it on your own even if the other person isn't presently willing to work on things. I've been separated for two years now and I'm just starting to work on it.

I'm terribly sorry for the pain and anger the affair has caused you. Please make sure you are doing some good self-care. You deserve it!

Cheers,

Dia

[Entangled]

How do you DB when spouse is not around to interact with, and friends (who think they are "helping") are working against you???

Thought of calling Divorce Coach. Is it too late for that???

Undomiel,

Remeber, you're spouses friends want her to stop hurting, not necessarily what's good for the two of you. And the OW has only her own interests in mind obviously.

It's never too late to try. I had my first Coaching session a few weeks ago, and it was definitely worthwhile. You've got nothing to lose and everything to gain.

Stay strong!

[sgctxok]

Hi Arwen, if you look around, you can find posts by many of the coaches...Laurie is the most prolific on the board. If I were going to call one, I'd call her, just because I've seen so much of the way she works.

Don't worry about the mistakes you made DBing...just do better next time. Like most everything else....it's what becomes your new habits that are important. Just practice.

[Arwen_in_NJ]

So... we haven't had much contact since the OW came back into town on Friday. Passed each other at the house when she came home to get more clothes or do her laundry.... Conversation was sparse, but civil. I mentioned I was worried about the cat, as she wasn't eating. She got the recycling out (!) on Monday and took the garbage out of the house yesterday...

I got this e-mail from her today, referencing a conspiracy nut that we used to talk to on the train when we/she commuted to the City every day. Light, casual contact- not sure why she is reaching out, if there is any meaning at all.

-----Original Message-----

Subject: You'll find this funny

Took train to NYC and guess who I saw? Yep, A***** -- ever the same. Now
on UFOs and oh yeah, there was no holocaust. Hah!

-------------------------------

Not sure if/when/how to respond to this..... Do I ignore? Do I respond in kind? My horoscope says: "You are navigating through some tricky spaces now, so be careful; everything could change in a moment." :-P

I also got an e-mail yesterday, asking if a $250 deposit to our checking was a deposit from my payroll... I told her a week ago I was going to be contributing $500/month to the account, as she wanted to reduce her contribution by that much. She has been supporting me/the house for the last few years, and this is part of my 180. I have not responded to that e-mail yet- not sure if I should. I usually used to answer e-mails in minutes (I get them on my phone). Not getting back to her right away is part of my 180 as well. She used to hate how much time I spent on the computer.

Oh yeah- she also closed out a credit card and reduced a overdraft line of credit on our joint checking from $10,000 to $1,000. She got "advice" to close out joint equity lines- like I wouldn't have cleaned out the accounts already if I was inclined to see so. She e-mailed me about the overdraft line, but hasn't told me yet about the credit card.

Been feeling all day like my heart is beating way too fast. I do need to cut down on the caffeine... :-(

Not sure what she is looking for... Acknowledgment that she did some things at the house? That we can still be friends while she is messing around with someone else a half mile from where we live? That I am "still where she left me" (MLC modus operandi)?

Advice?

[mac-ct]

separation doesn't mean the marriage is past saving. The whole point of DBing is that you can do it on your own even if the other person isn't presently willing to work on things. I've been separated for two years now and I'm just starting to work on it.
Dia

Dear dia - see you have some gems hidden inside. Keep posting!

you're spouses friends want her to stop hurting, not necessarily what's good for the two of you.

Don't worry about the mistakes you made DBing...just do better next time. Like most everything else....it's what becomes your new habits that are important. Just practice.

Can we all have an Amen on the above!

Arwen, the simple fact that your other half is e-mailing you with all this stuff is that I feel she want's attention!. Don't fall into the trap of playing her games.

Work on yourself. Read through some of the other threads and know that we're all here for you.

Deep breaths. Don't try to think through "things" every moment of the day. Share you're feelings here first before you do something that you may regret doing "in the heat of the moment".

Hugs

Mac

[Arwen_in_NJ]

Ack. I was just out for lunch, and my cell phone rang. I was driving so I picked it up without looking at the caller ID. Of course, it was her, calling to tell me she transferred $3,500 from our savings to checking as she needed it for the retainer for lawyer, and we agreed to let each other know about any movements of money. D*mn, d*mn, d*mn, d*mn, d*mn, d*mn, d*mn... I wished I had just let it roll to voice mail. :-(

On the brighter side, when she asked if I had a minute, I replied that I had "just a minute". In response to her comment about moving money, I just said "OK. Thank you". I then said "Talk to you later" and I ended the conversation. I got the feeling she might has been a little confused by the brusqueness...