I am at the three year mark of DBing, and talking about H's EA is only just now getting to the point I wanted it to be back then. Piecing is a really long road, that's why it's so important to take care of yourself and to detach.
At some point your H might open up about it, but from what I've read on here and my own experience, it takes a lot longer than the LBS would like it to. I think our WAS is embarrassed...ashamed...and they don't want to deal with it. As for me, my H doesn't think he did anything wrong since he never did anything physical. He can't wrap his head around how it would be easier for me if he'd slept with her and used her like a piece of trash rather than to become emotionally connected with her. He just wants me to let it go.
I don't think there's anything wrong with being honest with your H about how you feel. Detach from the outcome--express your feelings simply because it feels better to be honest, and that's really a part of developing intimacy. "H, I know you don't want to talk about this, but this is how your choice has affected me. Much as I want to, I can't flip a switch. I am in pain. My purpose isn't to beat you up, it's to find a way to heal and get past this pain." Something like that.
GAL, definitely. And if you liked The Secret, you might want to look into Byron Katie's self-inquiry process called "The Work." It's really powerful stuff, and it's helped me clean up a lot of my feelings around what H did.
Just keep breathing. IMHO, piecing is as difficult as separation, maybe more difficult because we tend to start having expectations and also now have to deal with our own feelings about the M.
Are you guys in MC? If you aren't, find someone that will help you guys navigate that mess. That helped a lot in my situation.
SD
Me: 40 H: 43 H had EA from 2/06-9/06 Bomb 5/06 Piecing since 9/2006 3/2008: Boundary setting 7/2009: Boundary crossing~dropped my own bomb. 8/2010: Marriage finally on track!
Although, I've been DB'ing for 1 year, we have been dealing with a dissentigrating marriage for 5 years. It came to a head back in 2004 when I found out about his first PA. He gave me the ILYBINILWY last summer, hmmmmmm, just about 1 year to the day from today, and we separated. WOW, time flies...
We've done it all, MC twice, IC both of us, marraige conferences, etc. From all of this, we are both now understanding and "owning" our own stuff thats caused it. But I do think you are correct about how the WAS being embarrassed, ashamed, and riddled with guilt over it. He didn't understand that "forgiveness" did not go hand and hand with "forgeting". He thought I would never forgive him for it. When in reality, I was just so overwelmed with life and his lack of interest and help in our family and in me, that he was a "target" frequently for my anger. I will say, I do still feel anger about his PA and it didn't help that he had an EA while we were separated. But thanks to DB'ing and IC, I realize I don't have to accept that anger. That I was only damaging myself with it.
As far as for our conversation about "everyone else gets to have an A and I didn't seem to get the memo on that one! And whats wrong with me, that I don't seem to get that opportunity", it started off ok but he got really offended that I would want that to happened and that it pissed him off. I reply that I am not saying this because I want it do happen but I am saying it because it makes me feel so undesirable. I tell him its just about how the situation makes me FEEL. He says he understands that but doesn't like it. Hmmmm. My only response was "Well I guess it would be hard for you to understand because you have always been on the other side of it. You don't seem to have a shortage of women knocking down your door to replace me with."
Just typing that stung....Needless to say, that was the end of that conversation and nothing has been said about it since.
I realized that my anger was raging just because of that, so yesterday, I tried my best to put that out of my head and focus on been a content person. Did help that we had to go pick up DD11 from away camp!! I missed that girl!!
I don't really think the man will every TRULY be able to open up about his feelings. Its really hard to gage a R with someone that's so bottle up about his feelings with their S but seems to have NO problem at all talking about them with strange women.....
SD, I don't really think the man will every TRULY be able to open up about his feelings. Its really hard to gage a R with someone that's so bottle up about his feelings with their S but seems to have NO problem at all talking about them with strange women.....
Just a quick post~
I actually think it's easier to open up to strangers, because their opinion of you doesn't matter as much. Women place so much importance on intimacy and feelings...it's the way we feel close to others, but for men it's physical. Feelings are...scary? Embarrassing? Risky?
So, if your H opens up to Sleezy Sue and she thinks he's weird/stupid/wimpy because of what he says, he can think, "Ah, well, her opinion doesn't matter...she's easy anyway."
Does that make sense? I'd say your opinion matters to him. Which doesn't make it any easier to have him be the way he is. My H is a "feeler," but he won't be direct about anything that's bugging him, which is equally maddening, especially since holding onto things is one of the main reasons we ever went down this path in the first place! :-)
Enjoy your D11's return!
SD
Me: 40 H: 43 H had EA from 2/06-9/06 Bomb 5/06 Piecing since 9/2006 3/2008: Boundary setting 7/2009: Boundary crossing~dropped my own bomb. 8/2010: Marriage finally on track!
I get the "anonamous" aspect of confiding in a stranger. Heck, I guess that's what I am doing here.
That leads me to today's struggle. I want nothing more than to be able to tell my H the things I say on this board. I feel like that is what I am supposed to do. He should be the one that I disclose my inner most feelings to. Am I off base here?
Yet, if I do, especially since my feelings lately are hurt and pain related to betrayal, I will piss him off, he will back away, because he doesnt' want to deal with the damage that's left on my heart. Because his guilty is easier dealt with by avoidance.
So what does that say about the depth of his feelings? Not too sure, but seem like maybe not as deep as I would wish.
I spent last evening with my BFF and her child and my H and our kids. Went to dinner. I just could help but notice how BFF and H are actually sitting closer together than he and I and I can't help but think how easily replaceable I am. And how, now that I know how BOTH of these people can lie to me to my face, do I know that they weren't hooking up on those nights when he hadn't found a place to stay and he was staying at their house?
I really need a smack right now.....................
[/quote] That leads me to today's struggle. I want nothing more than to be able to tell my H the things I say on this board. I feel like that is what I am supposed to do. He should be the one that I disclose my inner most feelings to. Am I off base here?
Yet, if I do, especially since my feelings lately are hurt and pain related to betrayal, I will piss him off, he will back away, because he doesnt' want to deal with the damage that's left on my heart. Because his guilty is easier dealt with by avoidance.
So what does that say about the depth of his feelings? Not too sure, but seem like maybe not as deep as I would wish.[quote]
Dug in,
No you are not off base in my book.
Sounds just like my H I feel, and he has told me he feels guilty and just wants it to go away. Avoidance, Certainly. Don't talk about it and it will go away, and since it wasn't a PA he didn't do anything really wrong. Ya right and I struggle
JAK
Last edited by JoJo's circus; 07/21/0905:54 PM.
You don't get to choose how you're going to die. Or when, you can only decide how you're going to live now. ~Joan Baez
After writing that yesterday, I battled myself for a while as to whether I should bring my feelings to his attention or not. Then I had the notion (thanks to SD and another friend from the board) that if I did not, I would not be keeping with my DB'ing approach. I finally recognized that I was afraid that if I brought it up to him, that he would have already fallen back into his old patterns and get pissed at me. I now recognize that if he has truely learned from all of this, he will understand my need to discuss these things. If not, then I know we will go right back to the bad place......
So I sat here and composed an email (this is how I communicated with him while he was gone and it was very effective for me; it helped me re-frame what I wanted to say in a non-threatening or accusatory way) and described what was bothering me. Here is what I wrote:
"I've been stuffing these ugly feelings since Friday when we had that discussion before dinner. I don't want to feel like I can't get things off of my chest anymore. That would just lead us down the wrong road again. You know when I stuff my feelings, they come back in bad ways. Usually in angry ways. I want more from our relationship, so I need to tell you these things. Not as a way to hurt you but as a form of intimacy that we should be sharing at this juncture in our marriage. Please don't take personal offense.
This whole BFF thing has knocked me for a loop. I feel like I have fresh wounds again and I am having a difficult time separating what BFF is doing from what you have done in the past. It all brings back too many bad memories. Not to mention the shear betrayal of someone closest to me again.
I hate being the one to have to deal with this all the time. I feel like I have a target on my back that says "Lie To Me because I am a Sucker".
I want very much to feel secure in our Relationship but I do not, at least not right now. I feel very undesirable and used.
I hope you can understand that this is not an attack on you. This is about me and my feelings right now.
Thanks for listening, ME"
I was pleasantly surprised at his response: "I can certainly understand all that. I felt kind of wierd at the table too and didn't feel comfortable sitting next to BFF but I didn't want to make anyone feel like a pariah and move away. So I can relate to your feelings on that.
I apologize for last night, I was feeling really stressed like I didn't have everything done and in order and ready to roll for the morning. Plus I feel like I just need that downtime to unwind or I have terrible sleeps. So I'm sorry for acting so stressed out.
I understand the need to get things like this off your chest. I'm just sorry that I didn't understand that earlier in our relationship and that by taking offense to these things I caused you to stuff them thereby creating that wall. So I am thankful in that sense that I've learned to recognize that.
I love you more than ever and miss you when you're not around."
I was most please at this part : "I'm just sorry that I didn't understand that earlier in our relationship and that by taking offense to these things I caused you to stuff them thereby creating that wall" - this speaks volumes to me.
So I think it only comes when the WAS has truely recognized how they have contributed to the demise of the M and learns how to "LISTEN" to what their partner is saying instead of taking it as an attack on them (which was classic of my WAS).
So getting back on here has already been benificial. I intend to keep posting....
Good for you! There's nothing to fear from the truth spoken with love and detachment. Honestly, if we can't be truthful with our spouse, why are we married to them? Who, then, are we truthful with?
It's scary, but I believe that learning how to speak honestly (instead of acting out passive aggressively) has been the greatest gift from this whole process.
I'm glad your H received it in the way you intended, and that you were able to see how he's changed as well.
SD
Me: 40 H: 43 H had EA from 2/06-9/06 Bomb 5/06 Piecing since 9/2006 3/2008: Boundary setting 7/2009: Boundary crossing~dropped my own bomb. 8/2010: Marriage finally on track!
