So much of what you have told me sure reminds me of Mr. & Mrs. Sandi years ago. I was reading Sg's thread on how some of us "support" and some of us give "solutions" to DBers here on the board. I'm not sure exactly where I fall, but I start talking and hope I say something that will help in some way.
I like your goals! I am impressed by what you have listed. Most newcomers are not quite as focused about goals......so that is great.
As I told you in the last post, I can certainly understand the stress of debt! Have you tried a company or agent that helps people in consolidating bills? Just getting professional advise might help some. It seems to be a world-wide problem with credit cards. It's scary, isn't it?
The "grass is greener".....oh man does that bring back memories. The first ten years of my M, I kept waiting for our "ship to come in" as they use to say. I was immature and believed in things I had seen in movies, I guess. Anyway, I was just like your W and kept trying to find happiness in ways like moving to another town, etc. My H would not agree to it, and that was probably good b/c I would have had us chasing rainbows forever! I mostly had to mature and learn a lot of life's hard lessons.
I also suffered from depression when my first child was born. I did not even know that it was something that I could have been given a prescription and gotten better. Nobody in my family had ever been given meds for a problem like that! I suppose it was some type of stigma attached. So, I really suffered for years before a doctor recognized it on another occassion and talked to me about meds. It took a long time before I finally found the right medication, and I was about to give up....but I am on the right kind now and it really is making a big difference. My heart goes out to people who live in the misery of depression.....but at the same time, I get impatient when they won't try to get help!!
I suspect your W has low self-esteem. That may be b/c she is staying at home raising the children. Some women would kill to get to do that.....then others really need to have a job outside the home to give them a sense of "fulfillment". Mothers have a lot of guilt to deal with when they work b/c they think they should be home....and those at home feel they should be working to help with the finances! With two preschool children, it would cost a fortune to pay for daycare. I don't know that it would help in that area of finances or not, however, if your W could feel better by a "position" in the workforce......it may be something to consider. What does she say about that? When my babies were little, I stayed home and it was very rough. I will have to admit that my self-esteem was low and when I was in the workforce.....I learned that the type of work I did really made a difference in how I felt about myself. I think it works for women like it does for a man. We find a certain amount of self-value in what we do. On the religious side of things, we shouldn't feel that way....but we do never-the-less. Men are "connected" with their work and I think it has become that way for women these days. Perhaps your W just does not feel that fulfilled and valued as a SAHM. Of course, I seem to be validating everything you have said! Sorry.
How is she coming in IC about her self-esteem? Does she ever talk about what is said in the session? Does she seem to respond to you talking to her? By that I mean, when you praise her for something she has accomplished well......does she seem to really be happy about it? You "do" praise her...right? You know, life gets to be so routine....and "especially" as a SAHM, so don't forget to say things about how well the house looks or what a great meal she cooked.....or how you appreciate that you always have clean clothes to wear and all the things that are involved with staying with those two little kids each day....wow!
A lot of men really do not know "how" to give a compliment. I have told some to not sound like a "husband" when saying something to his wife. Know what I mean? Like....when she gets dressed up....don't tell her she "looks nice". That is a husband compliment. Be specific. Tell her "how" or "why" she looks especially good. Point out something about the color she has on....or how hot it makes her look. Tell the way she walks turns you on.....things like that. Hey...I can give you all kinds of examples, if you need help in that area...LOL.
Also, couples need a lot of alone time. Is there anyone (relatives or friends) who could keep the kids over-night? How about a Saturday afternoon? I think your M is sexually starved and it would do good for you to read Michele's book about that. I think she has an article here on the board.
It is obvious to me that your W's sex hormones are extremely low and she does not feel attracted to you. Not b/c you are ugly or anything like that! When this happens to a woman....you could be Brad Pitt and she wouldn't be attracted. (Well....maybe not Brad.....but somebody else.) I'm not making fun of your stitch, but I try to show a "little" humor to keep surviving the sad stuff.
Your W needs help in a lot of areas that a good specialist could make a world of difference. If the sex went downhill after the babies were born...that is a sure sign of something physically deficient in her body. I am saying this b/c I was just like her. I kept blaming my "problems" on one thing and then another, but nothing was helping. I finally....(thank God) found a doctor who gave me a thorough blood test, (not just the usual things that doctor normally do) and discovered I had all kinds of low deficiencies in hormones and vitamins. It took finding the right doctor who would do extensive lab tests before I started getting better. BTW, when he got the results back....he told me I was a tainwreck! No wonder I was in the mess I was! So, I hope you will encourage her to get "all" the lab work so they'll know what she needs. I'm not pushing drugs here, but I learned the hard way that people do not "have" to suffer and their M's do not have to end due to hormone deficiencies. I had not idea what a difference it would make!!
I have already talked to you about the lack of respect in the MR, so I won't get off into all of that again.
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We sweep problems things under the rug. Don't talk them out. Come back later in big arguments and never get resolved.
So has none of the MC helped in knowing "how" to bring these issues to the surface and discuss them before they fester and turn into a giant argument? I have found that when I won't allow something to bug me....and confront it right then....I do so much better and then it won't become that type of ordeal. My H and I use to do the same thing you are talking about. He would hurt my feelings or do something that made me mad.....and a lot of times I would suck it in and decide not to say anything. Well, it becomes a monster if you do that. It will come out later.....but will appear to be something entirely different. Something small and insignificant. It will seem that the whole thing was blown up out of proportion.....but the real problem was swept under the rug, right? If only something had been said at the time, then it would not have grown into that argument that made no sense. I have really learned from this....and at first, it was a little difficult b/c I have a lot of pride and it's hard to tell my H that he hurt my feelings or that I did not appreciate how he spoke down to me, etc. But, it is very "worth" it to do so!! I hope you will try this and will discuss it with your W. Perhaps the two of you can agree to do this with each other.
Do you still travel a lot? I can see where that hurt the R a lot.
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Recently she has mentioned that she doesn't know who I am anymore. She says I seem robotic. (It's just me trying to learn better to communicate through word of mouth and listen to her and not crying at the drop of a hat). She also says that I scare her sometimes when I talk to her. I guess this is more of my confidence showing as well.
She is probably leary at you changing so much. She doesn't understand these changes or maybe "why" you've done them. You would "think" she would know, but can't read her mind, right? She may feel that the man she M has died and this new man is a stranger to her. She may have to get to know him and fall in love with him! I went through that with my H. I actually mourned for the "boy" I fell in love with and he vanished! I still miss that boy, but I have learned to respect this man I'm M to and love him. It does take time.
I never thought I would live to see my H trying to put as much effort into our R as he has. He actually talks to me, now. Maybe he will never know how to relate his emotions very well, but I don't nag him about it like I use to, and at least he is talking! That helps a lot.
She wants to be "only" friends b/c she feels emotionally divorced from the M. Plain as that. No sexual attraction....depressed.....probably not much energy......sad.....no money to have good times & fun.....giving up on this "life" and thinking that a "new" and different life will bring her happiness. Does that sound about right? Yes, I've been there.
I know you are trying to stay away from the computer as much, but I do hope you will continue to come to the DB board. You might want to delete your activity from the computer b/c some S's don't understand what this board is about and it causes more problems. However, that is strickly up to you and don't think I'm trying to promote deceitfulness.....just caution! You need support and help. There are a lot of people here that are very good at both.
Take care, Sandi
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Thanks Sandi. I knew from reading your posts that you would have some great insight. You have basically hit the nail on the head with everything. The grass is greener concept, W self esteem, W depression, W sex drive,
As far as my W in IC. I do see that she is getting better in some areas with her self esteem. She does talk to me more and more about what her and her C are talking about. Self esteem, feeling "whole", dealing with guilt, her parents, etc.
She has an appt. next week for medication.
As far as us and MC. We have only been twice together. I went twice without her (and I think that aggravated her). I'm not sure we are going again (at least to the same one). The first time we went, she blasted me and said that:
She felt like I was her 3rd child. She thought that I was a "nice, docile man." She didn't trust me with money. She'd rather live a life alone with the kids.
The second time together (which was last week):
She told the MC that she went to talk to a D lawyer.
The MC asked me what I thought about that. I said I told her that I couldn't stop her or fight her from doing that but that I disagree with it and I would fight for our marriage.
She said she doesn't know who I am anymore. She questioned me several times why I didn't change sooner in the R. She says that I act like this is not real and we are not going to get a D and that I act like I don't live in reality right now. She says that I act like she is going to come back to me.
Can you go over to my thread under emotional detachment in I need support for my marital problems and give me some ideas for compliments...I said the "You look nice" the other day and I would like to get some fresh ideas.. Also can you give me your take on my sit too if its not too much trouble..
Thanks
M:35 W:36 M:10 yrs T:11.5 yrs C: B7, G3 ED: 3/09 DB: 3/20/09 Served 12-8-09 Still going through the process
Here's another thing that is strange to me. This past weekend she was suppose to go on a trip all weekend to a girlfriends (I know it is just a girlfriend) Friday - Sunday. On Thursday W says that I don't think I'm going to leave until Saturday now and I might not even go. Friday night at dinner, "I ask the girls what they want to do tomorrow?" and almost immediately W goes for the phone to call her girlfriend and says, "hey I've decided to go tomorrow."
I know I shouldn't try to read minds, but I know some WAW's want their LBS to fight for them. Any insight into this exchange?
Well, it's hard to tell about the changing her mind when/if to go to the girlfriend's. A lot of WAW's have this very restless and unstable frame of mind and it's just plain hard to understand.
As far as her wanting you to fight for the M, I would think that she wants to see some type of action out of you if you have been passive.
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She felt like I was her 3rd child. She thought that I was a "nice, docile man." She didn't trust me with money. She'd rather live a life alone with the kids.
When I read this, it told me a lot. No W wants to feel these things about the man she's M to. Every woman wants her man to show some "spunk" and "life" about him. She wants him to make some decisions instead of her feeling as if she has to do it all. No woman wants a "dictator" but she does want a H to call the shots on some things. She wants him to show he's capable of handling money and taking care of the family. She wants to see him "take a firm stand" about things he believes in and not sit back and never have an opinion.
Perhaps I'm not chosing the right words to express very well. Don't mean to sound as if I'm putting you down. People can be passive to a certain degree (I think) before others misunderstand and take that passiveness to mean something negative. Just as an assertive person is easily to be misunderstood.
In what ways do you think you could show your W that you were fighting for the M? Don't you see that being a 180? Could you make some goals that would show steps in "fighting" for a great M? Sounds like you could be onto something here.
Let me know some of your ideas.
Sandi
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Thanks Sandi. I think you are validating some of my feelings.
I also found a note a couple of weeks ago that was in the garbage: It was from a friend of hers that read: JDopp is "crazy" for not realizing what he is about to lose.
Also in MC, W made mention of how much attention I was paying towards my D's, it seemed to aggravate her.
Sandi some of these things just go completely against what seems to be the standard in DBing. Wouldn't some of these actions be considered pursuing????
180's to show I am fighting for M
Become more responsible with money. Get more involved. She is the one that handles the checking account. I could offer to do the bills every other week.
Ask her out to the movies (We quit doing this).
Ask her on a family outing (She asked me out on a weekend family outing last weekend after she said she went to a D attorney?).
Schedule a MC session on my own. Ask her to go. If she doesn't agree, explain to her that I am going this first session because I understand that one person can help save a marriage?
Take a stand against our credit card bill and take action against it.
Let me know what you think? Are they too agressive. Too much pursuing?
The other night she made mention that she wished we wouldn't of stopped praying together at night. Maybe I should say something like: I'm going to pray tonight, would you like to join me?
Still confused about whether these are pursuing behaviors?
Which brings up another thought: It seems like their would be an extremely fine line between "showing" that you fighting for your marriage and pursuing?
Especially if your WAW is potentially in this mode of "I want my H to show me he is fighting for the M." To me it could almost be subconscious that a WAW wants this. Maybe not.
My W is still very resentful that I did not make a lot of these changes sooner. She has expressed this several times. If it was so easy to do...why did you not do them sooner? How can you change so much in 3-4 months?
