Yay!!!!! Finally a new thread.

[25yearsmlc]

Amen to what CG just posted. It is just fine, although sucky, to feel crappy at times and is NOT an indication you made the wrong choice. Geez, what choice is going to make you "happy" right now? You got a lousy hand and you are folding that one and going on to the next...so you'll do better soon.

(CG, I doubt the gf is "taking" your place. I have a feeling that she either is not attending at all, b/c somehow I think you are a hard act to follow, OR she is attending, cluelessly, and your h's family is acutely, and sorely aware of your absence...None of which is your problem.)

For both of you a sense of loss at your end is reasonable b/c it IS a loss for God's sake. And it does suck. But you may be able to retain something later on with the family. My bil left my older sister several years back and among the many regrets he had was that he lost us as well. But what is noteworthy is that although we DID drop him, it's b/c he broke our sister's heart without a good reason. She was the giver and he was the taker. (She has remarried and is happier now than she ever would have been with her first h, but it still hurt her and the kids deeply that he left. I have not seen him since he left though I hear about him thru my niece and nephews and he is not a very happy man...too BAD...)

In contrast, my oldest brother left a wonderful woman and their d, and we all told him he was a fool. Seriously we had so many discussions and he wanted to be right and for her to be "wrong"... He would not listen. He has remarried and now I can see why he left his first w. She had expectations of him. Normal, reasonable, healthy ones. But he didn't want to be married to someone who expected anything from him other than maybe fidelity. My brother has lots of good qualities but he's a lousy h. You could ask all of my silbings and my mother and you'd get a unanimous response. He's a lousy H. Not abusive, just very neglectful. AWOL....

Now my "new sil" is nice and very low maintenance with very low expectations of my brother. He meets those low expectations as he chooses to work abroad, in the War, away from her, 9-10 months of every year thus far. He's civilian so it is a choice, not a duty and this is now his 4th or 5th tour as he is addicted to the adrenaline but for the life of me, why'd he marry her at all? Don't know.
But his first W would have been miserable and he barely knows his only child though in his mind, he's a good dad b/c he calls her often and sends money...the point is, I am still in touch with my first SIL and we have vacationed together several times. She'll always be like a sister to me.
There were a few awkward moments with my brother at first, but he mainly understands that this is a good thing for his daughter or she wouldn't know US, HIS family b/c God knows he's gone enough....

CG, A/K, can you maintain some R's with your H's family? I'm proof that it can be done even when your own sibling is the idiot.

Surely it can be done when you aren't. IOW, I could understand if my sil found it too painful to maintain our R, but she is comforted by it and so am I. We remain very close. If it were MY h's family, I'd likely not have much contact with my MIL who never ever will tell her sons anything but how great they are. She never called when h was not here. Not a single time did she call to ask how the kids were....not much of a grandmother in my mind....And never disciplined her sons. Some moms are that way but CG, and A&K, I'm a mom of a son - and if he ever pulled something like your h's have, I'd reach out to my dil and tell her she's welcome in my home AND I would most definitely have a "lil' Chat" with my son. (A&K, it's mainly women who are raising boys to be men, so remember this 20 years from now)...

I'm just telling you that you might be able to keep some R's in the family. MIght take some time, but you can reach out maybe later when it doesn't feel weird or look like pursuit. But promise yourself you will NOT bring up the M with your poor inlaw. They'll be nervous that it's going to turn into a "why don't you fix your sibling" convo and it can't. Believe me, I tried and I tried with my brother -- and the first stunt he had pulled in the 80's happened at a time when we were able to reach him and yank him back...but years passed and he was still not into it and she was still hurting, so maybe his leaving was for the best. (I know it was now). Though my brother doesn't really see his own role in the issues or that he was mainly responsible for them, in the back of his mind I think he wonders why his ex w seems so much happier in her M now...(karma??)

Take care ladies, sorry this is a hard day but martinis' can make it ALL so much nicer...what do you put in yours CG?

((( j )))

[aliveandkicking]

how does it put you into a sort of limbo? How about YOU take charge of that and get some storage space or pack the rest of it up and find a place for his stuff to GO....??

Well, not quite ready to acquiesce to it being "his" stuff because a lot of it is very valuable and will be leverage in getting him to settle with me. Once out of my possession that would be harder. Putting it in a storage space he doesn't know about...hmmm...I've thought of that. Would be a bloody battle but may be worth it. I don't want his things (he spent all of OUR money on), I just want decent support and not to have to take his debt.

So he can get "ugly too"?? WTH? B/C You set a boundary...oh no!! You have no right to do that?? Geez, and he was being so nice and all...

Good Lord, he actually said "but I left you such a nice message wishing you a beautiful day..." He just doesn't get it.

I had a great day with the kids. They are struggling so much in their own ways. I want to really be here for them.

[aliveandkicking]

CG, A/K, can you maintain some R's with your H's family? I'm proof that it can be done even when your own sibling is the idiot.

My H's family has so far been decent. SIL struggles with communicating because she feels bad but has indicated that she loves me.

MIL has been a love. She totally coddles and enables her son but still tells him that she wishes he would try to work it out. There's is a jacked up R...really the elephant in the room that has contributed greatly to the demise of our M. I used to feel hostile toward her, now we are actually closer as she feels she can commiserate with me (her H left her with my H and sister so many years ago). She has been wonderful with me. When the sh*t hits the fan, that could change but I think we will come out ok as long as my expectations of her are realistic (she will not stop enabling him).

H's father can go f*ck himself as far as I'm concerned, he set the stage for this and has only encouraged and supported H in leaving me. No loss there.

So, I'm doing pretty well with the relatives.

[aliveandkicking]

CG- thanks for the post. As I've said before, the good news for you is that you don't have kids with him so you can cut all ties eventually.

Honestly, I still do worry about my H from time to time and how he is living and how little he will be left with but that is because I am human and not a robot. But, choices have consequences. Nobody told him to leave and not come back, that was his choice so he could carry on with his GF, so, it is what it is.

I am at a point where I am not willing to put my energy into helping H become a better person so he can go be that person with someone else. Major emotion and energy suckage.

I am going to go see a child behaviorist by myself as soon as I get some money.

S9 repeated a very inappropriate joke tonight at dinner basically about how miserable marriage is (he got it from daddy). I did ok in my response but I want to tear daddy a new a**hole. This kind of provocative stuff makes me want to get in some counseling with him though if history is any indication, he will not get it enough to really do things differently. I am not sure.

H had mentioned something in our convo earlier today about being "even" when I mentioned how hurtful he has been. On the one hand, I would like to see a professional to deal with his vindictiveness and try to move through and past it. On the other hand, I realize it is his crutch and he will not let it go unless and until he is ready.

[25yearsmlc]

When he says things like "Getting even" you may need to toss him a reality ball. "Getting even h? How can I possibly compete with the damage you've inflicted? OH WAIT! I don't want to. I want the pain infliction to STOP especially with our children...how could you possibly think hurting them wins points for anyone? Let alone you, h? Is that a loving fatherly thing to want? What is this REALLY about? Your guilt? Fine, you go cope with that without lashing out at me thru the kids b/c they become the 'collateral damage' you don't want to think about..." "Lose the score card, and maybe we'll get thru this without totally screwing them up..."

Sorry A/K but THAT comment pushed a button in me. It is one thing to be supremely self absorbed, but his comment borders on evil and shows us all how dangerous rationalizing can be. We have to watch ourselves in that arena too. It's like a warning shot. If your h, not normally a bad guy, can become this shitty, well, it's scary. Should give us all pause about how we behave too.

Good night A/K. Hope we can have lunch sometime IRL and connect and just laugh it off SOMEDAY...oh, let me post something to you that was posted to a friend of mine and see if it helps you. From Was2Sad, a great guy btw.

To a woman upset by the idiot thing her MLC h had done, or not done...

Look at me and listen now. Do not use his name or his alias in the same sentence with the word happy. Not because you think he may or not be, but because the two are of no consequence to you.

Any time you spend wondering if he is having fun is time you should be spending thinking about the blessings you have. Time you could be using to make plans for enjoying your life with your kids. The fact that he will not be doing that has nothing to do with your priorities.

When you are thinking too much about him, stop and seek solitude. Concentrate and focus on you. Think what makes you special. Think what makes your kids wonderful. Put your goggles on and look in the mirror. I just threw that one in to see if you could with a straight face.

Really, we all have moments on the roller coaster we would just like to puke and get it all out. You know at the same time that this ride will not kill us, and when it is over we will wonder what all the fuss was about. Hard to see it that way right now. In time, it will come. Allow yourself to think of something else. Allow yourself to imagine the world is still round and the sun will come up tomorrow.

Imagine yourself very very happy. Don't focus on the details of how or when right now. Just see yourself being happy. What do you like to do by yourself when you are happy? What do you like to do with just the kids when you are happy? Why aren't you doing those things right now? What plans do you have for doing all that this week? These are the things you should fill your mind with. Anything else is meaningless in life. Anything else in life is a distraction, an illusion. Focus on the important stuff and smile.

Hope it helps you as much as it did her, and me.
We'll talk soon
xoxo
J-

[AlexEN]

25,

Great post...

I like this (as well as letter) you re-posted:

When he says things like "Getting even" you may need to toss him a reality ball. "Getting even h? How can I possibly compete with the damage you've inflicted? OH WAIT! I don't want to. I want the pain infliction to STOP especially with our children...how could you possibly think hurting them wins points for anyone? Let alone you, h? Is that a loving fatherly thing to want? What is this REALLY about? Your guilt? Fine, you go cope with that without lashing out at me thru the kids b/c they become the 'collateral damage' you don't want to think about..." "Lose the score card, and maybe we'll get thru this without totally screwing them up..."

I think it works better still without the reference to guilt (which could be construed as mind-reading); it can be generic by just saying "you go cope with whatever it is"... Let them figure out what their own demons are, but don't play whatever it is out using the kids...

-AlexEN

[aliveandkicking]

I just received a remarkably concise email from H. This means he a) "got it" and b) is grumpy about it.

I wrote the following which I will NOT send because the truth is, I have the upper hand even if it doesn't feel like it and I want to stop making things so verbose and complicated. But here is what I would have sent if I felt it was worth the effort. If he is a jerk when I drop off the kids, I might revisit it.

It seems you are aggravated and annoyed that I want some space and need time to heal. Your behavior has been hurtful and devastating to me our children, and much of our extended family. You've gone so far as to numerous times compare me to your knew love interest and belittle me. And then you blame me for your emotionally abusive behavior which by the way is pretty consistent with how you've treated me for a long time. I realize that I hurt you too but this all reminds me of what the dynamic has been for so long.

When you mentioned being "even" yesterday, I realized how heartless you have become and how dangerous this situation is and sad that the kids are in the middle. 50/50 responsibility would have meant that we were "even" when you left. The fact that you are still looking for payback is a testament to your guilt and how difficult it is to rationalize your behavior (even with all of the swell of support you seem to have found)...you have to go back to the well to find a way to blame me and I suspect you may do that forever.

But, the victims of that are not just us and our emotional well beings but our kids as well. They've been living in that paradigm of blame for so long. Now that you have what you want and you are loved in the "right" way, there should be no reason to blame me or seek revenge.

You have expressed that in your heart you know this is right and you are fulfilling your destiny so there should be nothing but clarity and a newfound ability to empathize and treat me with gratitude and respect. Giving me space and time to heal and respecting boundaries would be part and parcel to exhibiting your goodwill. That would also preclude you from making veiled threats and having a nasty attitude.

[aliveandkicking]

Dropping the kids off sucked! Interaction was casual with H (he was busy laying by the pool with some of the women who live there, he's like part of the family now).

I am in a good mood after reading the following-

The better Coach got with communication, empathy, listening and setting boundaries, the more mad I got.

I can still work on my shortcomings and set boundaries. And H being angry does not mean I am doing anything wrong.

[25yearsmlc]

A/K, just a few ideas I'm tossing around. I am not sure it is a bad idea to get things off your chest and if and when he ever re-reads it, you'll have given him a reality ball. BUT he'll only read so much. Two or three paragraphs AT MOST....if you can keep it to one, the chance he'll read it all, greatly increases...so pick and choose...
j-

I just received a remarkably concise email from H. This means he a) "got it" and b) is grumpy about it.

I wrote the following which I will NOT send because the truth is, I have the upper hand even if it doesn't feel like it and I want to stop making things so verbose and complicated. But here is what I would have sent if I felt it was worth the effort. If he is a jerk when I drop off the kids, I might revisit it.

It seems you are aggravated and annoyed that I want some space and need time to heal. (Or maybe, "Though I'm not a mind reader, you actually seemed angry at me yesterday just for trying to get space from you, which I need to heal.) (I -note the "I" statements--have been hurt and devastated by your leaving as have our children, and moreover, some things you have said, are unecessarily cruel. On numerous occasions, you compared me to the new women in your life, to my face and you belittle me. ANd then you blame me for your present conduct as well. This is not all new behavior of yours, but it shocks me that you would still play the blame game when we have not lived together now for months... Your behavior has been hurtful and devastating to me our children, and much of our extended family. You've gone so far as to numerous times compare me to your knew love interest and belittle me. And then you blame me for your emotionally abusive behavior which by the way is pretty consistent with how you've treated me for a long time. I realize that I hurt you too but this all reminds me of what the dynamic has been for so long.
[i]Though this upper part is fully justified, the rest of the letter (below) might need to be sent. Just wondering..


When you mentioned being "even" yesterday, I realized how heartless you have become and how dangerous this situation is and sad that the kids are in the middle. 50/50 responsibility would have meant that we were "even" when you left. The fact that you are still looking for payback is a testament to your guilt (OR something internal in you b/c he may not ever admit feeling guilt which equals responsibility) and how difficult it is to rationalize your behavior (even with all of the swell of support you seem (CLAIM) to have found)...you have to go back to the well to find a way to blame me and I suspect you may do that forever. WHILE SURPRISING AT THIS POINT IN THE SITUATION, THIS BLAME GAME OF YOURS NO LONGER CONCERNS ME AS I HAVE NO CONTROL OVER YOUR ACTIONS, & AND I NEVER CAUSED ANY OF THEM EITHER...

But, the victims of that are not just us and our emotional well beings but our kids as well. They've been living in that paradigm of blame for so long. Now that you have what you want and you are loved in the "right" way, there should be no reason to blame me or seek revenge.

PERFECT A/K



You have expressed that in your heart you know this is right and you are fulfilling your destiny so there should be nothing but clarity and a newfound ability to empathize and treat me with gratitude and respect. Giving me space and time to heal and respecting boundaries would be part and parcel to exhibiting your goodwill. That would also preclude you from making veiled threats and having a nasty attitude.[/i]

[i]LOVE IT
[/i]

after all, if he is so convinced that he has FINALLY done the "right" thing, what's with the anger" What's with the threats? [color:#FF0000]When will he think the kids have been damaged enough for HIM to feel better about himself, since this is all about THAT???? Why are YOU so at peace (Interally you will be...'fake it til you make it honey' and use those acting skills in front of him to display utter indifference...in time, that is what you will feel. Where the head goes, the heart WILL follow, if you let it). Why are you so kind to the kids? Oh wait, I know, you love them and don't use them to hurt him!! ANd b/c you are finally free to live a life without a succubus in it.[/color] The "happiness drain" is finally, thank GOD, moving on to some other place where I'm sure his "contributions" will be more fully appreciated....Well good for him! We're all so happy for his new found sense of peace and harmony...I'm sure it will last and last and be so productive. And hey, if it is, that's great news for you and the kids cuz maybe some bills will be paid. take note of his life style b/c the court will....and they DO count "OW"s" incomes by the way, IF you get a divorce decree, and he lives with rich OW, THAT counts and helps YOU....but you gotta get it in writing. Wait, you have that cousin DIV L....time for a call to the family business guy perhaps. Just get info....lots and lots of info and have a good beautiful day.

(((( HUGS ))))
j-

[antlers]

I really like what you wrote...I may use some of it! Thanks.